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View Poll Results: Should Luis Suarez be dropped in the CL?

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  • Yes

    41 55.41%
  • No

    33 44.59%
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Thread: Should Suarez be dropped from the Starting XI in the CL?

  1. #31
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    When has Messi carried a bunch of scrubs in CL? Man, Messi has won the CL only with stellar teams filled with superstars and all time great players.

    2009.

    Best team in the fucking world. Best midfield ever probably and 2 superstar forwards next to him. And the best RB ever on his side, in his prime. Coached by a genius.

    2011.

    2009 only said players where at their peak instead of prime. Changed Eto'o with another super forward, none other than Spain's all time leading goalscorer in international comps. Coached by one of the best managers the game has ever seen also at his best.

    2015.

    Declined team, but added a new dimension with the superstar signings of Neymar and Suarez, getting what many of the fans and media called MSN, aka the best trio ever. They ripped teams apart together.


    So... please tell me when did Messi carry anything in CL? It's a whole different thing to be the best player in a team, which he was, and to carry that team. We only won the CL when everyone played lights out. We lost and lost badly when that didn't happen, regardless of Messi. Which is what we're trying to correct.

    Messi and Ronaldo never carried anything. They were part of the best teams in the world and this is why they won so much. The difference between them in CL is that Ronaldo was more consistent in the big games, and this because of his superior motivation and tenacity, two qualities that often make the difference in this specific competitions in which the best teams meet. Which makes him better in CL, while being worse overall than Messi. Hardly controversial stuff. Most sensible, unbiased fans, would agree to that.
    Wasn't the point of my post.

    This is what you said : Ronaldo has been better in CL though and way more consistent in the big games.

    But you forgot to mention that Real Madrid was and still is a team stacked with quality. CR7 was the cherry on top. All Im saying is that if CR7 truly is the better the player in CL then he should have had no problem carrying this average Juve yesterday.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by messi2140 View Post
    Wasn't the point of my post.

    This is what you said : Ronaldo has been better in CL though and way more consistent in the big games.

    But you forgot to mention that Real Madrid was and still is a team stacked with quality. CR7 was the cherry on top. All Im saying is that if CR7 truly is the better the player in CL then he should have had no problem carrying this average Juve yesterday.
    No. Because today a player's influence on the game is limited. Only Barcelona pretend otherwise. As if giving the ball to Messi can ever replace tactics and such.

    Messi, Ronaldo, they can't compensate for much when key things are missing at a team level. They mostly make the difference when they receive very good support from their teammates and managers. Ronaldo did this more often in CL by being a better scorer in big games mostly.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacticvarium View Post
    I would say the best trio ever was Xavi, Iniesta, Messi (or Busi).
    You're right. More like best front three ever, which is how Messi, Suarez, Neymar were called.

  5. #35
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    And Best duo ever? Easily Xavi & Iniesta.
    Football was at its peak in terms of the level of tactics, managers, and players in general during their hegemony. The only comparable eras would be 70s Ajax & Bayern, 80-90s Milan & Seria A.
    Xavi & Iniesta and Barça & Spain raised the bar too high and now I can't enjoy football as much.

  6. #36
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    Good posts overall @serghei and agree with much of what you have written. Obviously not every single point but the majority.

    Suárez's goalscoring form in the CL, in particular in the knockout stage and away from home, is not good enough and that has been the case for far too long but it is not like the seniors (Messi included) or most importantly the TEAM as a whole nor the tactical and motivational preparation of successive coaches (Lucho and Valverde) have set the world alight either.

    It is IMO too simplistic to put the blame on 1 individual. There is nothing wrong with highlighting Suárez's dreadful stats but our recent failures in the CL are not down to him missing chances. It is much deeper than just that and there are numerous reasons for our failures in the CL.

    I honestly believe that the 2 main issues are mental and a naive playing style that won't win you many CL titles if not executed perfectly or at the highest level as seen during Pep's tenure when all the stars aligned.
    We are simply not a hard-working or pragmatic (smart) team. Never been the case. We cannot grind results out. Valverde tried last season and in return we had the epic defeat against Roma. We tend to be very one-dimensional in attack. We offer zero threats from set pieces to our opponents. One of the major strengths of RM in recent years. We are a weak team physically generally speaking. Little threat from outside of the box other than from Messi and Coutinho. Not this season's version of Coutinho. Lack of pace. No tactics other than giving Messi the ball and expecting him to do everything on his own to the detriment of the team and other players. Not hard-working enough without the ball etc. A weak mentality whenever down or whenever having a bad day and thus prone to epic failures and collapses as seen in recent seasons in the CL unlike pretty much most other elite teams.

    I have been saying the above for many seasons (since the summer of 2016 more strongly) but it has been brushed aside by most fellow fans (in person) and online. Until lately that is.

    The fantasy world that some of our fans have been living in where most of our seniors where what they once were (even when it has been clear that they have been declining for years and thus not the best players on their respective positions any longer) has not helped either. Failure of genuinely strengthening the team likewise as a result of this policy of hiding your head in the sand as an ostrich. Carlo's Milan all over again with the exception of us having much more money, having Messi around and to be fair a more visionary board than Berlusca and zio Fester post 2007. Not that this is saying awfully much on its own.

    There is zero coincidence in both Messi and C. Ronaldo shinning more brightly during eras or for teams that worked better as collectives. It took Ronaldo 5 season for him to truly shine in the CL (in other words win) during his stint for RM. Likewise Messi, ever since Pep left, with the exception of the triplete season of 2014-15, have not shinned as much as he used to do under Pep.

    No surprise seeing C. Ronaldo struggling for Juve in the CL this season either. Half the team compared to a prime RM if that can even do it. Their respective careers for their countries illustrate this very clearly. None of them have impressed even remotely as much as during their club careers. It's all about the team and collective in other words.
    Last edited by Leo_Messi; 21st February 2019 at 10:43 PM.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Messi View Post
    Good posts overall @serghei and agree with much of what you have written. Obviously not every single point but the majority.

    Suárez's goalscoring form in the CL, in particular in the knockout stage and away from home, is not good enough and that has been the case for far too long but it is not like the seniors (Messi included) or most importantly the TEAM as a whole nor the tactical and motivational preparation of successive coaches (Lucho and Valverde) have set the world alight either.

    It is IMO too simplistic to put the blame on 1 individual. There is nothing wrong with highlighting Suárez's dreadful stats but our recent failures in the CL are not down to him missing chances. It is much deeper than just that and there are numerous reasons for our failures in the CL.

    I honestly believe that the 2 main issues are mental and a naive playing style that won't win you many CL titles if not executed perfectly or at the highest level as seen during Pep's tenure when all the stars aligned.
    We are simply not a hard-working or pragmatic (smart) team. Never been the case. We cannot grind results out. Valverde tried last season and in return we had the epic defeat against Roma. We tend to be very one-dimensional in attack. We offer zero threats from set pieces to our opponents. One of the major strengths of RM in recent years. We are a weak team physically generally speaking. Little threat from outside of the box other than from Messi and Coutinho. Not this season's version of Coutinho. Lack of pace. No tactics other than giving Messi the ball and expecting him to do everything on his own to the detriment of the team and other players. Not hard-working enough without the ball etc. A weak mentality whenever down or whenever having a bad day and thus prone to epic failures and collapses as seen in recent seasons in the CL unlike pretty much most other elite teams.

    I have been saying the above for many seasons (since the summer of 2016 more strongly) but it has been brushed aside by most fellow fans (in person) and online. Until lately that is.

    The fantasy world that some of our fans have been living in where most of our seniors where what they once were (even when it has been clear that they have been declining for years and thus not the best players on their respective positions any longer) has not helped either. Failure of genuinely strengthening the team likewise as a result of this policy of hiding your head in the sand as an ostrich. Carlo's Milan all over again with the exception of us having much more money, having Messi around and to be fair a more visionary board than Berlusca and zio Fester post 2007. Not that this is saying awfully much on its own.

    There is zero coincidence in both Messi and C. Ronaldo shinning more brightly during eras or for teams that worked better as collectives. It took Ronaldo 5 season for him to truly shine in the CL (in other words win) during his stint for RM. Likewise Messi, ever since Pep left, with the exception of the triplete season of 2014-15, have not shinned as much as he used to do under Pep.

    No surprise seeing C. Ronaldo struggling for Juve in the CL this season either. Half the team compared to a prime RM if that can even do it. Their respective careers for their countries illustrate this very clearly. None of them have impressed even remotely as much as during their club careers. It's all about the team and collective in other words.
    Great post!!!

    Sums up our problems very well. We don't look like a team. Bunch of individuals.

  8. #38
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    Voted no simply because we have no great alternatives. I'd drop him from every La Liga match though.

  9. #39
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    Voted yes. He'd serve us better coming off the bench being in the spotlight having been benched by a junior squad member.

  10. #40
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    just watch his performance vs lyon, he is very good. vote no

  11. #41
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    Absolute disgrace that over 50 % vote yes.

  12. #42
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    He's 32 and doesn't have the legs to do what he used to. Not to mention obvious drop of his abilities.

    He is a legend but if he is staying he needs to be rationed and we have to use alternatives (Jovic?).

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    Well isnt it ment for this season? There are no options available. And he is still a top 10 ST imo.

    If its from next season, its a bit different, still, with proper rest i would still prefer him to a player like jovic. Who looks good (on highlights) but he will be a totatly new addition, and he will need time to adapt to us and big club football. Also, all tho Suarez maybe havent been that good in CL for a longer period, he still offers a lot in workrate, position, assists, messi-understanding, power off will etc. Yes, he has underperformed in the scoring department, but i dont really blame him for our exit in chl, it was the midfield who underperformed.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havesaks View Post
    Well isnt it ment for this season? There are no options available. And he is still a top 10 ST imo.

    If its from next season, its a bit different, still, with proper rest i would still prefer him to a player like jovic. Who looks good (on highlights) but he will be a totatly new addition, and he will need time to adapt to us and big club football. Also, all tho Suarez maybe havent been that good in CL for a longer period, he still offers a lot in workrate, position, assists, messi-understanding, power off will etc. Yes, he has underperformed in the scoring department, but i dont really blame him for our exit in chl, it was the midfield who underperformed.
    A top 10 striker? He's top 3 easily.

    Other than Kane, I wouldn't put anyone ahead of him tbh. Maybe Aguero. That's about it.

  15. #45
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    yes he should be dropped, he has been not playing well recently and he only has 4 goals in cl we should play coutinho messi dembele upfront in cl.since we are going win la liga we are going to be 10 points clear atletico (if we win against betis today) in la liga we should play dembele messi malcom up front. malcom might not be ready to play big gamnes in la liga or cl but this will give him expericnce that he needs to improve as a player