Neymar Jr.

Messi983 said:

Messi wanted to keep his friends around before he has agreed to renew his contract the last time. Bartomeu was affraid to lose him and that's why we renewed Suarez, Raki, Busi, Alba, Pique instead of trying to phase some of them out of the club and replace them with younger and hungrier players.

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You have been repeating this conspiracy theory again and again and yet to provide a single proof of it
Suarez renewed his contract one year before Messi, he was still in his prime and it was great decision to renew.
Busquets renewed one year later, same for Alba, Raki was 1 year earlier, Only Pique was on same timeline of Messo renewal.

All those players would have renewed long contracts with other clubs, Only Pique was above 30 when he was renewed.
Those players are club legends,they are important figures to Barca marketing and money machines.
And veteran players can be moved out if they are smart and honest with it, it isn't like Xavi/Mascherano/Iniesta wasn't on high wages and long term contracts when they moved out.
But you can't expect a huge offer for Raki, don't tell him with straight face he isn't in our plans and then complain we don't move the veterans.
We have kicked plenty of Messi friends out, from Cesc (club wanted him out, it wasn't just his request) Pinto and Alves and Messi moved on with no trouble.

Board incompetence isn't because of Messi or his power. It is because board is happy to ride the Messi journey and get the most financial benefit from it.

With that being said, it is obvious he miss Neymar being here. But that isn't a surprise considering he was arguably one of the best players he ever played with.

With the boards history of questionable decisions i'm sure they don't need demands from Messi to fuck up the squad, they are more than capable of doing that on their own

serghei said:

of sacrifice like past legends in the mold of Xavi, Puyol, Iniesta showed.


Basically, if a new great manager comes, who wants to build something and decides he needs Messi to do these things, Messi should either do them, or if he can't anymore, he should be replaced. I don't mean technical things, but physical things. Which he may not be able to do.

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1-Those legends didn't sacrifice much as you think.
I am Puyol biggest fan, but the guy tried to stay here until it was painful for him to do daily life activity. The club kept delaying signing a defender since "we will have Puyol back"for at least 3 summers.

Xavi was a bad starter since 2011/2012 season, and yet he never thought about sacrificing his role. We lost Thiago because he thought he was 4th option behind Xavi/Iniesta/Cesc. Xavi was basically shown the door.

Iniesta learned the lesson, but he knew Coutinho was their for his place and left because he knew he was no longer a starter and didn't want the bench role.

And don't get me wrong, I am not saying those players are selfish, but they are competitors who want to stay at top level as long as they can.

Messi is just like that, he won't retire until he is shown the door and knows some younger dude is taking his place.

2-For your own future mental health, don't expect a future "great manager". Those one are rarity, in fact it is easier to get superstars than great managers. We had great luck with Rijkaard & Pep & arguably Lucho, but it might take decades to find someone in that level who is still in his prime years as manager.

For this to happen, you need some great adviser who is highly experienced coach. Laporta had Crujif along Txiki, that is why Rijkaard (after leading team to relegation), Pep (after season in 4th division ) were hired and Lucho was groomed for future role with Barca B.

we have to buy him this summer
cause we don't have any other creative and score maker player except Messi

Obviously he is coming.

khaled_a_d said:

2-For your own future mental health, don't expect a future "great manager". Those one are rarity, in fact it is easier to get superstars than great managers. We had great luck with Rijkaard & Pep & arguably Lucho, but it might take decades to find someone in that level who is still in his prime years as manager.

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Don't think you are right on this. All time greats like Pep, Klopp are a rarity, sure, but top managers are usually on the market. And it's not easier to get superstars than great manager, not now with oil clubs floating around.

This team hasn't sign a recognizable, highly rated, manager in more than a decade. Which manager did we sign that has experience in CL for example? Pep? Nope. Tito? Nope. Tata? Nope. Lucho? Nope. Valverde? Nope. Setien? Nope.

And also, a great manager is worth much more than a superstar signing. Coutinho, Griezmann. Superstar signings right there. Did they help much? No. What we need is to hunt for the right manager. Sack them after 1 season if they don't have what it takes. Madrid way. Went through 3 managers in a season actually. The only ones who can build a new side is a top manager backed by a gutsy board. That's all. We'll struggle until we find this combo. I really doubt that, with the rumored prices, we will build such a Galactico team again that will carry an average manager to great heights.

In short, the asking price evolved at a much faster rate than our income. This makes signing superstars harder and harder. The way to go is to get a top manager and trust him with the project of creating a new team. This can only be done by another board.

Also, Puyol was phased out in favor of Mascherano starting with 2011. At 34. Iniesta also at 34. Xavi at 34. We should phase out Messi at 34-35 too. That's in 2 seasons.

innnnnnnnnnn on 666 page






relax he's staying [MENTION=23192]Messigician[/MENTION]

serghei said:

Don't think you are right on this. All time greats like Pep, Klopp are a rarity, sure, but top managers are usually on the market. And it's not easier to get superstars than great manager, not now with oil clubs floating around.

This team hasn't sign a recognizable, highly rated, manager in more than a decade. Which manager did we sign that has experience in CL for example? Pep? Nope. Tito? Nope. Tata? Nope. Lucho? Nope. Valverde? Nope. Setien? Nope.

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Who do you define as great manager? And how much do a coach need to be considered CL veteran?
Oil clubs are exactly the reason it will be tough to hire a top manager, especially with current squad.
Pep? Klopp? not available, one with oil club another with a team challenging them.
Simeone?Zidane? even if they are available, they won't come here
Conte? Great, but awful fit and fans will hate him.
Allegri? Same as Conte.
Never mind there are plenty of coaches who are established with one team but the ran out of ideas later, Like Mourinho for example.
The list is actually smaller than you think, and that isn't taking into account the club wanting a coach who speak the language (which is fair, despite being inconvenient to some)
Alternative is looking for brand new name, like we usually do. But then again -as I said- this needs someone who really understands football. Laporta had Crujif as his sidekick but Bartou & Rosell didn't. I don't know who font have as his supporter but they all seem new generation guys who want job for themselves (could end up either way)

It's tough to find top managers. It takes skill and a very good board with very good football minds as advisors as you said. But it's tougher to build a team full of stars right now. That's the whole point. Superstars are superstars because they play at the big clubs and decide important matches. These players do not move from team to team, and in the rare cases they do, they cost an arm and a leg, like Neymar, Mbappe, Coutinho etc. And they sometimes end up being flops.

Naagelsmann, Ten Hag are solid options. Xavi could be a great in the making. Setien is not bad imo and should be trusted for 1 more season, personal opinion. These are all managers with ideas who imposed their style on teams (Xavi hasn't yet, but he will surely have a vision). I just don't want another manager who works with what he has and pretends things are normal. I want somebody who rocks the boat and then has the ideas to build something new. Of course, he needs the board's full backing for that.

malvolio said:

what do you mean "he sides with his buddies"? i can't remember him having a tantrum when fabregas got sold(and the fabregas family are really close to messi's family).

he is good pals with suarez, but you can't say that suarez played just because of this friendship. it is evident now why suarez played - lack of true alternative.

other than that what other pals has messi forced upon this club? pinto?

so the man speaks fondly about a guy whom he had a great on the pitch relationship that brought success to this club. you see it as messi influencing the club. when in the end the board didn't even make a move for neymar. also saying good things about lautaro(a fellow countryman of his) wouldn't be bad for his closest pal suarez? you could make up theories like that all day.

the facts are these:
- messi has always been loyal to us
- there isn't any evidence that he got his way in bringing his pals to the club or influence their stay here
- speaking fondly about fellow professionals or wanting to play with the best is generic bullshit that all players say when interviewed
- there was speculation in the press about messi not wanting griezmann here. result? griezmann was bought -> messi power indeed

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Same thinking here. Some people try to make conspiracy theories out of couple of words of kindness towards some players, which accidentally or not he knows, played with them and knows their abilities. Cant see anything bad in that, guy wants to play with people he knows, is a admirer of their abilities and understanding on the pitch. Messi plays football and wants to enjoy it while picking up silverware. He is human, he has the right to speak what he thinks and feels, he deserved it afterall

serghei said:

And imo he's not a leader, he thinks about himself first and his friends, not the team. Xavi and Puyol, they were leaders. And Iniesta was an absolute Don.

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Messi is a leader. He may not be a great orator or a loudmouth, but he leads by example. He has carried us on countless occasions. I feel it's quite unfair to level such accusations at him while championing the others who stayed well past their best.

Andrew M said:

Messi is a leader. He may not be a great orator or a loudmouth, but he leads by example. He has carried us on countless occasions. I feel it's quite unfair to level such accusations at him while championing the others who stayed well past their best.

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Not to me. He leads by abiltiy and skill. Not by example, which implies a top notch attitude and commitment which he doesn't really have.

It is not unfair to question Messi in these areas. It would be unfair to doubt his ability, but character and attitude can be questioned.

Barcelona 2015 - Neymar-Suarez-Messi
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Barcelona 2020 - Neymar-Suarez-Messi

serghei said:

It's OK if you believe that. I don't. I think Messi is no1 Amigo and a big influence in the locker-room. You can't talk about amigos and veterans running things, and not speak about Messi imo. Messi is a great player still, but a bad influence in the team and in the locker-room. Plenty of reasons to believe this part too.

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If Messi had that sort of power the club wouldn't have signed Griezmann.