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Thread: 10 - Lionel Messi

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by FCB1987 View Post
    The reason why Neymar didn't deserve 2015 is because he was competing with an insane year from Messi. If Messi was as good in 2014 as he was in 2015, then obviously Ronaldo wouldn't deserve it. However, Ronaldo managed to have a very good 2014 at the same time that none of Messi, Suarez, Robben, etc. managed to make a strong enough case against him.

    It's hard to compare goalkeeper with a striker but I don't think Neuer was that special or essential to Bayern or Germany enough to deserve it. Bayern would still have won Bundesliga without him and I don't remember many special saves that made the difference for Germany. I don't think he even made a single save in the final and should have conceded a penalty imo for the assault on Higuain.
    I was comparing Neymar's year in 2015 with CR's 2014 to show that just scoring X amount of goals in a knockout stage doesn't mean you are automatically the best player for that year and it could be misleading. For me, Ramos and Di Maria were the key players for the CL win as Messi was for 2015 (he only scored in one knockout game in 2015). CR's Ballon D'or 2014 was mostly based on the CL win and just as you didn't think Neuer was that special, I didn't think CR was that special in that CL (he was also invisible in most of the final and most of his goals in the knockout stage were not that impactful in the ties).

    Oh if you have the time, you should watch Neuer's saves in the knockout stages of the WC, even the one vs Brazil as he made some great saves in the 2nd half. I agree that he should have conceded a penalty vs Higuain and possibly a red card, but I think that Neuer was mostly good in ALL the competitions that he played in that year while I think CR only had one good half of the year, which was the 2nd half. We should just agree to disagree as I don't think we're going to agree on the winner of 2014.

  2. #92
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    Di Maria deserved 2014 Ballon d'Or

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD92 View Post
    Di Maria deserved 2014 Ballon d'Or
    😂😂😂

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD92 View Post
    Di Maria deserved 2014 Ballon d'Or
    Good one. Not heard that before

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD92 View Post
    Di Maria deserved 2014 Ballon d'Or
    kilometers matter ..

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMU ReBorn View Post
    2007- Kaka
    2008- Ronaldo
    2009- Messi
    2010- Xavi
    2011- Messi
    2012- Messi
    2013- Ribery
    2014- Ronaldo
    2015- Messi
    2016- Suarez
    2017- Ronaldo
    2018- Messi /Modric
    If we're supposed to go by who the actual best player is week-in week-out (based on performances in the previous season):

    2007- Ronaldo
    2008- Ronaldo
    2009- Messi
    2010- Messi
    2011- Messi
    2012- Messi
    2013- Messi
    2014- Suarez
    2015- Messi
    2016- Messi
    2017- Messi
    2018- Messi

  7. #97
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    If we're supposed to go by who played well in the biggest games even if they had a bit lower consistency (which imo is CL and big league games and is actually important, as opposed to only looking at best consistency and talent):

    2007- Kaka
    2008- Ronaldo
    2009- Messi
    2010- Messi
    2011- Messi
    2012- Messi
    2013- Ribery
    2014- Ronaldo
    2015- Messi
    2016- Ronaldo
    2017- Ronaldo
    2018- Salah
    Last edited by footyfan; 10th August 2018 at 12:48 AM.

  8. #98
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    @FCB1987 I based it on the previous seasons - so for eg. 2007 award would be for the 06/07 season, 2008 award would be for 07/08 season and so on.

    imo Suarez was the best player in 13/14. Ronaldo would have been second or third.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by footyfan View Post
    @FCB1987 I based it on the previous seasons - so for eg. 2007 award would be for the 06/07 season, 2008 award would be for 07/08 season and so on.

    imo Suarez was the best player in 13/14. Ronaldo would have been second or third.
    Oh ok, I'm pretty sure I agree on all of them except maybe 15/16 I would have given to Suarez but that one's close and it depends how you factor in Messi's injury.

  10. #100
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    Don't think I've seen a message about that in all your discussion about le Ballon d'Or, so thought I'd remind you all that the whole voting process changed quite a few times since 1956, but most notably it changed twice in the past 10 years.

    It used to be a vote by a selected pool of journalists (since it was created by the french football magazine France Football, though I assume everybody here knows that). That is, up until 2009.

    After that (starting with Messi's 2010 trophy), France Football and FIFA decided to merge their two separate trophies (Ballon d'Or and FIFA Player of the year) to create FIFA Ballon d'Or. They decided to go with FIFA POTY rules: captains and coaches of every national team in the world gave points (5, 3 or 1) to any 3 players they wanted on a list of 23 decided by the magazine. It means it wasn't journalists anymore, but players and managers.

    It led to quite a few stupid votes, by the way (for example, in 2015, Vanuatu captain gave 5 points to Pogba, Indian coach gave his top spot to Alexis Sanchez, Löw only voted for german players, Martinez did the same with argentinians and so on).

    They reverted the whole thing in 2016 (Ronaldo's last two trophies were attributed by a selected pool of journalists).

    So why am I telling you this, assuming you don't already know it ? Well, historically speaking, when there's a world cup or a Euro, the Ballor d'Or goes to the "main" player of the winning team. I'm talking about the "real" Ballon d'Or, not about the FIFA Ballon d'Or. FIFA POTY usually goes to the offensive player who impressed the most during the year. Same could be said about the FIFA Ballon d'or, since the voting system was basically the same.
    It's particularly obvious for WC years (EURO got a few exceptions, especially when Greece of Denmark won, for example).

    Since 1990:
    - 2006: Cannavaro - Italy WC winner
    - 2002: Ronaldo - Brazil WC winner
    - 1998: ZIZOUUUUUUU - France WC winner
    - 1994: Stoichkov - Exception but Bulgaria (!) managed to reach semi finals of the WC, him being top scorer in the competition. Plus, most importantly: before 1995 the trophy could only go to a european player. Too bad for Romario.
    - 1990: Matthaüs - Germany WC winner

    So in almost 30 years with the original voting system, the only time the award didn't go to a WC Winner was in 1994... when no world cup winner could have been crowned.

    I'd be pretty surprised to see Ronaldo getting the trophy this year. His spectacular goal against Juventus might count, and so will his hat trick against Spain (come on, that was something !). But it probably won't be enough, especially when you get pretty obvious picks like:
    - Modric, WC final, best player of the tournament, CL
    - Varane, WC, CL
    - Griezmann, WC, EL

    As much as I love Messi (and believe me, I really love him), he played very poorly during the world cup, and Barca didn't go far enough in CL. Winning la liga is clearly not enough when you look at most winners of the past years (not counting those FIFA Ballon d'Or years). He probably won't make it to the top 3 or top 5.

    Unless something out of the ordinary happens between august and october (the last months of the year can have a pretty big influence, since it's exactly when the journalists are gonna vote), I'd say it should be something along the lines of:
    1. Modric
    2. Griezmann
    3. Ronaldo
    4. Varane
    5. Messi (or maybe Messi 4 and Varane 5).

    Not saying that's what I would have voted, but I think that's what's going to happen. Messi might go up a couple spots if he had an amazing couple months, but I don't see him going higher than 3rd. Ronaldo might win the trophy if he has an absolutely amazing couple months in Italy (the fact that he manages to crush his opponents in a 3rd different league could impress the judges) AND if Modric and Griezmann need some time to get back on track in this new season. But once again, I'd be surprised if he gets it.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD92 View Post
    Di Maria deserved 2014 Ballon d'Or
    For his customary break down in the middle of a tournament ?

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    Because he was, along with Ramos, Real Madrid's best player in CL and he was a beast in WC before the injury.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD92 View Post
    Because he was, along with Ramos, Real Madrid's best player in CL and he was a beast in WC before the injury.
    True. He was a beast for both the club and country that season.

    It would be such an irony though - Argentina would have won the WC had the lad not got injured, and Leo would have cemented his position as the GOAT. But, there is no way di Maria would not have won the Ballon d'Or that season having won the CL as well as World Cup.

    The GOAT not being the best in the very year when he established his GOAT status

    Shows why the logic that one has to win the WC with the NT to be considered the greatest is so flawed!!
    Last edited by Aryagorn; 10th August 2018 at 09:15 AM.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryagorn View Post
    True. He was a beast for both the club and country that season.

    It would be such an irony though - Argentina would have won the WC had the lad not got injured, and Leo would have cemented his position as the GOAT. But, there is no way di Maria would not have won the Ballon d'Or that season having won the CL as well as World Cup.

    The GOAT not being the best in the very year when he established his GOAT status

    Shows why the logic that one has to win the WC with the NT to be considered the greatest is so flawed!!
    Messi would've won ballon dor that year if argentina had won the world cup. Di Maria is too inconsistent a player and they might not have even played as well if he had played in that final. Messi singlehandedly got them out of the group and put a goal on a plate for di maria next round.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD92 View Post
    Because he was, along with Ramos, Real Madrid's best player in CL and he was a beast in WC before the injury.
    Bollocks. He did fuck all in world cup group stage . Messi single handedly carried them to PQ . Untill that goal vs Swiss he wasn't anywhere near the beast level which you are claiming to be . He was one of their best player in Cl final , But Bale had a better tournament