10 - Lionel Messi - V6

Hardy said:

Messi missed that sitter on purpose

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Brazil in semis though

FCB1987 said:

Truth right there. As much criticism as our midfield has gotten, I think our lack of pressing and movement from the front was a bigger issue in the humiliations against Roma and Liverpool. We basically defend with 8 outfield players when Messi and Suarez start together.

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You can carry one (Messi) because of what he offers and the team can work harder knowing Messi will produce magic.

The problem is Suarez. Barca are carrying two players and Suarez is offering nothing anyway.

The Copa America is a very easy tournament to shithouse your way to glory.

- 2/3 3rd place teams qualify for the knockout stages. Virtually impossible to be eliminated in the group stage with a player like Messi.

- Only 3 knockout rounds (QFs, SFs, F). With a bit of good fortune and a favourable draw anything can happen.

So Argentina are shite, but can still easily win.

How about you take a time off.

Barçaman, you are hilarious!

serghei said:

The problem with Messi is that he is lazy. Too much talent and too little work these days, and past a certain level, hard work and intensity are key ingredients to winning. Also, his positioning is chaotic. He moves where he wants when he wants. This is not right. Every single player must fit within the tactics of the team and must have roles and duties to fulfill.
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Sorry, this is whack. Any manager in the world would love to have Messi. It isn't like CR (scoring leader for multiple CL winning teams) or Aguero (head of spear of the greatest team we have seen in the EPL and a team with very high pressure despite him) or Lewandoswki work defensively.

FCB1987 said:

Truth right there. As much criticism as our midfield has gotten, I think our lack of pressing and movement from the front was a bigger issue in the humiliations against Roma and Liverpool. We basically defend with 8 outfield players when Messi and Suarez start together.

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It is bigger than this, see next.

Ritchie said:

You can carry one (Messi) because of what he offers and the team can work harder knowing Messi will produce magic.

The problem is Suarez. Barca are carrying two players and Suarez is offering nothing anyway.

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I agree with you that you can carry one. Suarez can be solid pressing--better than lots of other offensively playmakers like CR or Messi or Aguero or Coutinho or Lewa. However I think Griezmann is better than all of them, and hopefully he can also keep Suarez fresher.

As just as big if not bigger problem is pressure from out midfield. Busi and Rakitic are very slow and there alternatives have not offered enough. Might be different with De Jong and 2nd year Arthur in the mix, though I worry we will still start the slowest DCM in the world in Busi.

Often these issues compound each other, you get tired Messi and tired Suarez, along with Coutinho, Busi, Sergi, Rakitic or Vidal--not a very dynamic or athletic team.

What we also forget is Liverpool took it to us with non 1st teamers in Origi, Shaqiri and Milner out there--that shows commitment, conditioning and most important a team scheme and understanding of roles by each player. Lots of these parts are on the manager, not the players.

Both Barca and Argentina have to build around Messi. Aguero not such a problem with City--but it is with Barca. Rakitic excellent for Croatia--but compounds our slowness with Barca. Coutinho excellent for Brazil but compounds our difficulty at ball winning at Barca.

De Jong and Griezmann I think are great starts in remaking the squand to better compliment Messi's strengths and weaknesses, but more to do in players and even moreso managing.

serghei said:

The problem with Messi is that he is lazy. Too much talent and too little work these days, and past a certain level, hard work and intensity are key ingredients to winning. Also, his positioning is chaotic. He moves where he wants when he wants. This is not right. Every single player must fit within the tactics of the team and must have roles and duties to fulfill.

That is what happens when you have managers who are probably in awe of him and don't dare to say anything to him when something is off.

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Messi was running/moving quite a bit during 18/19. There were practically no games where he struggled to make himself available and have a profound presence in our offense, even the Anfield game (he created or took every single shot we had in that game).

He was super invested in winning the treble this season and grew more and more confident as he was succeeding individually and we were on course to win it all. It wasn't until right after Anfield you could see a drop in his interest levels (though there weren't many games after that tbf). This lack of interest continued over to Argentina. He destroyed Honduras in one half while practically walking/barely on his toes the entire time. Didn't go out of his way to force a comeback against Colombia, though he was better in the 2nd half.

I think it's gonna be very hard for him to get motivated the way he was this past year, especially under a soul-sucking dud like Valverde. Messi put in SO much blood and sweat only to have the rug pulled out from under him at the last second. Seriously, that would've been his GOAT achievement to carry this sorry ass team on his back to a treble. I can only imagine how broken and breathless he must've felt afterwards, like what even is the point? Try it all again from scratch? Fuck that.

I think he'll go back to being lazy from now on unless some major change happens in this team that turns us into legit contenders again. No way he's gonna generate that level of inner drive playing with EV's suicide squad.

DonAndres said:

Messi was running/moving quite a bit during 18/19. There were practically no games where he struggled to make himself available and have a profound presence in our offense, even the Anfield game (he created or took every single shot we had in that game).

He was super invested in winning the treble this season and grew more and more confident as he was succeeding individually and we were on course to win it all. It wasn't until right after Anfield you could see a drop in his interest levels (though there weren't many games after that tbf). This lack of interest continued over to Argentina. He destroyed Honduras in one half while practically walking/barely on his toes the entire time. Didn't go out of his way to force a comeback against Colombia, though he was better in the 2nd half.

I think it's gonna be very hard for him to get motivated the way he was this past year, especially under a soul-sucking dud like Valverde. Messi put in SO much blood and sweat only to have the rug pulled out from under him at the last second. Seriously, that would've been his GOAT achievement to carry this sorry ass team on his back to a treble. I can only imagine how broken and breathless he must've felt afterwards, like what even is the point? Try it all again from scratch? Fuck that.

I think he'll go back to being lazy from now on unless some major change happens in this team that turns us into legit contenders again. No way he's gonna generate that level of inner drive playing with EV's suicide squad.

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They why does he back up Valverde?

Messi has never had a problem with motivation it's how he's remained at the top.

Stop doubting the guy we will come back stronger next season

te amo barca said:

They why does he back up Valverde?

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Dude he is a player, he isn't a manger, let alone a sporting director. It is his job to back the manager and his teammates as he goes to war with those poeple. It is others job (sporting director, board) to look objectively at the coaching and personnel at have the present and future of the club in mind. Further, even if he did have objectivity (which of courses he doesn't given the nature of a team), he might not be good at player assessment, coaching, and strategy--it is quite enough to be a genius on the pitch and most skilled player of the last decade if not more--that is what Messi offers and we are lucky he is part of the team we route for.

that infamous picture of messi with his hand on his face lol
they been showing that for last 3-4 years, head down with hand on face.

most of the time in the argentina shirt of course.
the media is crazy how they can spin the narrative.

DonAndres said:

Messi was running/moving quite a bit during 18/19. There were practically no games where he struggled to make himself available and have a profound presence in our offense, even the Anfield game (he created or took every single shot we had in that game).

He was super invested in winning the treble this season and grew more and more confident as he was succeeding individually and we were on course to win it all. It wasn't until right after Anfield you could see a drop in his interest levels (though there weren't many games after that tbf). This lack of interest continued over to Argentina. He destroyed Honduras in one half while practically walking/barely on his toes the entire time. Didn't go out of his way to force a comeback against Colombia, though he was better in the 2nd half.

I think it's gonna be very hard for him to get motivated the way he was this past year, especially under a soul-sucking dud like Valverde. Messi put in SO much blood and sweat only to have the rug pulled out from under him at the last second. Seriously, that would've been his GOAT achievement to carry this sorry ass team on his back to a treble. I can only imagine how broken and breathless he must've felt afterwards, like what even is the point? Try it all again from scratch? Fuck that.

I think he'll go back to being lazy from now on unless some major change happens in this team that turns us into legit contenders again. No way he's gonna generate that level of inner drive playing with EV's suicide squad.

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Are you some kind of psychologist, you can read the minds

Arizona Scott said:

Dude he is a player, he isn't a manger, let alone a sporting director. It is his job to back the manager and his teammates as he goes to war with those poeple. It is others job (sporting director, board) to look objectively at the coaching and personnel at have the present and future of the club in mind. Further, even if he did have objectivity (which of courses he doesn't given the nature of a team), he might not be good at player assessment, coaching, and strategy--it is quite enough to be a genius on the pitch and most skilled player of the last decade if not more--that is what Messi offers and we are lucky he is part of the team we route for.

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This is what ive been saying all along. I dont understand why its a hard concept to grasp for some people. As a team member if you dont back the coach then well your going to be in all kinds of shit especially if you know that said coach is going to be around for awhile. The best example of this would be a 9-5 job. If you know your manager is going to stick around regardless of the bad shit he does and the higher ups back him..what would you do? Stick around and talk more shit about and get yourself into a world of mess or try and push through it and show a supportive face on the "outside" while trying to find a way out somehow.

Would this fomation work at all? You would give Messi all the freedom he needs and it would work well as he loves to drift into the centre. The right wing isnt exposed anymore as dembele is in his preferred position. Upfront you would have Saurez/ Greizmann.

You could put defensive midfielders behind messi to cover his lack of tracking back..or put Frankie alongside Busquets/ Vidal.