10 - Lionel Messi - V6
- Thread starter El Flaco
- Start date
Please enlighten us about those 50 % decrease areas.
CatalinR10
Senior Member
i feel he lost A LOT of pace
Acceleration is still up there
Acceleration is still up there
And in "certain key areas" he is 1,5x the player he was at his peak...so there...why look only at the dark side, with random statements.
The only decline one can prove without any prejudice is that of his mental aproach. That s it and it s obvious. Stats vise, last season was his best in the last 3 years. So, that obvious decline is lost on me.
Perhaps there has been a little physical decline, but not in a way, that would influence his productivity.
Most things [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] is mentioning (lack of movement, defence) are there because his aproach is not as hungry as it used to be.
Now if you ppl only watch and remember CL matches, than i understand this notion of decline. But it s still team sports and he is not a superman.
Surround him with mobile, effective team and he will deliver CL.
Kul_z
Senior Member
His decision making, his play making and his finishing had never been better. He's like wine. Maybe he lost pace, but still is the best player around. Last season with the weakest team in a decade he dominated like the goat he is until that roma game. Cheer up fuckers, new season is upon us and more of messi magic would be unleashed
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Things Messi has clearly declined in compared to his absolute prime (2008-2013, 2015):
1) Ability to destroy multiple players 1 on 1; His dribbles attempts, dribble success percentage were higher in La Liga, and much higher in CL than now. He also has less solo goals now.
2) Acceleration: Messi never had the best top speed but his acceleration was arguably the best in the world at one point, especially lateral acceleration. His body feints are no longer as effective whereas in the past, he completely ethered the likes of marcelo and evra with ease.
3) Finishing: He was the best finisher in the world at one point, significantly more efficient than CR7. Still a great goal scorer but doesn't have the accuracy and power of old.
Things Messi has improved in over the years:
1) Playmaking: over the head diagonal pass to LB/LW, and through balls (though I would argue he was just as good at this in 10-11, look at the assists to Villa in the 5-0 clasico)
2) Freekicks: This one is indisputable. He's improved leaps and bounds.
The eye test question is, when you watch Messi these days compared to his tapes from the Pep days or 14-15, do you not see a difference in his individual level? To me, the current version is what you would expect for a Best player in the world, while the other one was jaw dropping GOAT level.
I just wish he would show more intensity . Even when he is dropping back to pick the ball up from deep. He basically walks to the midfield which in turn does not disturb the opponent's defensive shape at all . Marking Messi off the ball must be a treat . Even if he would do a quick sprint when he is dropping back it would allow other teammates to make runs into the space he was occupying or in behind.
Felipetonelo
New member
Totally. I think technically he improved a lot during his career, increasing his range of passes and quality of his finishing. His ball control still is amazing, controlling the ball in tight spaces like no one else. Mentally, he sure improved in his extraordinary vision, decision making and choosing the best possible moments to make a pass, a dribble or a finish. Still talking about mentality, he decreased in work rate, off the ball movement and personally, I think he lacks a good amount of motivation. I said before, nowadays Messi only gets fired up if someone hits him, a hard tackle, an elbow in his face. In these moments you can see and feel that he's going 100%.
Physically, he decreased a lot. It was one of his best parts, that mesmerizing combo: acceleration, agility, dribble and incredible change of direction. No one could deal with that in the past and I doubt 2018 defenders could do better against him. He still has the dribble part, the close control, but his body doesn't act like he used to do. If the defender is coming against him, he can dribble all day, just using body feints. His issue is when facing a standing defender and Messi and the defender are at 0 speed. His acceleration to beat his marker is not that fast anymore. For me, that's why he's having some much trouble in games with less space. He doesn't have the acceleration to dribble through the defender, so he has to make a simple pass, or pass and run to receive after a little sprint. A younger Messi would dribble the defender, and with that outstanding speed and free to go, he could choose to dribble, to pass, pretty much anything.
Of course it depends on his teammates, team formation, strategy, coach approach to the game and much more, but we can't deny his physical decline and how it's affecting his game. With teams giving less and less space, being fast and reacting quickly are important, and Messi surely decreased in both aspects.
Off topic: In Football Manager I tried him as a Poacher, doing nothing when defending, and when Barca were attacking he would wait glued to the defender and then make a run behind to receive a long pass. Worked really well because he was smart enough to not be offside and run at the right moment. Not sure if would work in real life.¨
Edit: I forgot to mention one thing that Messi surely decreased was his choice of friends.
Forget Suarez and let him go. Make new friendships with Malcom, Dembele, Coutinho, Arthur.
CatalinR10
Senior Member
doesn't work like that big boi
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I would personaly rate Messi's skills this way through eras:
Messi 2007:
Pace 10/10
Passes and decisions 6/10
Finishing 7/10
Motivation 10/10
Pep's Messi:
Pace 10/10
Passes and decisions 8/10
Finishing 9/10
Motivation 10/10
Messi 2015:
Pace 8/10
Passes and decisions 9/10
Finishing 10/10
Motivation 8/10
Messi 2018:
Pace 5/10
Passes 10/10
Finishing 8/10
Motivation 5/10
So, his passes and decisions improved over years, but he lost pace, stamina, workrate and motivation.
Imo, my personal rating of his eras in total:
2007: 8/10
2011: 10/10
2015: 8,5/10
2018: 7,5/10
For La liga level, this wiser Messi is better than 2007's Messi.
But for a Cl level, I am sad to say, but imo, this is the weakest version of Messi (compared to himself).
If we had to play tomorrow Cl quarters vs Atletico, between 2007's and 2018's Messi, I would pick 2007's guy for a Cl.
He was fast, hungry, motivated, unpredictable, hardworking.
He was raw and with weaker passing, but imo: hunger, pace and decent passing means more than slow pace, poor motivation and goat passes.
Guys, don't take this as an attack on Messi.
That is just reality.
And another example how physical skills, motivation and other things are also important.
Not only a pure technique.
Messi 2007:
Pace 10/10
Passes and decisions 6/10
Finishing 7/10
Motivation 10/10
Pep's Messi:
Pace 10/10
Passes and decisions 8/10
Finishing 9/10
Motivation 10/10
Messi 2015:
Pace 8/10
Passes and decisions 9/10
Finishing 10/10
Motivation 8/10
Messi 2018:
Pace 5/10
Passes 10/10
Finishing 8/10
Motivation 5/10
So, his passes and decisions improved over years, but he lost pace, stamina, workrate and motivation.
Imo, my personal rating of his eras in total:
2007: 8/10
2011: 10/10
2015: 8,5/10
2018: 7,5/10
For La liga level, this wiser Messi is better than 2007's Messi.
But for a Cl level, I am sad to say, but imo, this is the weakest version of Messi (compared to himself).
If we had to play tomorrow Cl quarters vs Atletico, between 2007's and 2018's Messi, I would pick 2007's guy for a Cl.
He was fast, hungry, motivated, unpredictable, hardworking.
He was raw and with weaker passing, but imo: hunger, pace and decent passing means more than slow pace, poor motivation and goat passes.
Guys, don't take this as an attack on Messi.
That is just reality.
And another example how physical skills, motivation and other things are also important.
Not only a pure technique.
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RMU ReBorn
New member
Messi's body faints are still jaw dropping . He put Cesc on his arse against Chelsea and during that match vs Betis in villamarin he dribbled past two- three with his body faints . It was so damn good that even Betis fans were in owe and applauded him
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Who said he's incapable of doing it now. The frequency and success rate is lower than before though, but go ahead.
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RMU ReBorn
New member
Don't think so . He has slowed down and doesn't dribble like the way he used to still his body faints are as good as before
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