10 - Lionel Messi - V6
- Thread starter El Flaco
- Start date
Obiaseti
New member
I think he makes a lot of valid points. The thing is ironic as it is Messi is so good that if the team is not managed properly it is very easy for his teammates to get complacent and rely on him too much. As a consequence the team has no collective identity. And in this sense he does have a negative impact. The only issue is that while he has identified the correct symptoms, placing the root cause on Messi doesn't make sense to me. In fact after clearly highlighting that it is a team game it seems weird to pin the blame on one player. It's preposterous to suggest that he actively hurts the team and I think Van Gaal is making a major assumption here implicitly. Namely that Messi actively forces this over reliance on him. It is not Messi's responsibility to ensure the team uses him optimally. That is the responsibility of the coach and if he delegates that to Messi or lets Messi decide that then the fault is the managers for letting things get out of hand. It's an easy trap to fall in because relying on Messi works 90% of the time. This is exactly why we need a manager with courage who is willing to abandon something that seemingly works most of the time. The caveat here is that if it turns out that Messi was using his position as a club legend to throw ultimatums to the board and management about the team tactics and his role then the fault is his. I'd be surprised if that were true though as it seems very out of character for Leo.
tacticvarium
New member
No wonder why Van Gaal has been one of the smartest managers in his prime. Wish he was our youth football director.
Arizona Scott
New member
Suarez presses pretty solid for a CF. Certainly puts more effort into nicking the ball bacck than other high scoring forwards who often play centrally like CR, Kane, Aguero, Lewandowski or Mbappe.
And yes giving up those goals had very little to do with Messi--you got 10 other guys on the pitch. He wasn't why in about 8 other spots we lost their individual battles, for lack of execution from the back to midfield, and turning a blind eye on a corner, among other things. Most none of those things are his job or is he in any reasonably way supposed to prevent.
And yes giving up those goals had very little to do with Messi--you got 10 other guys on the pitch. He wasn't why in about 8 other spots we lost their individual battles, for lack of execution from the back to midfield, and turning a blind eye on a corner, among other things. Most none of those things are his job or is he in any reasonably way supposed to prevent.
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Crap like this gets tossed around every time someone dares to criticize him.
I fucking love the guy, watched him from teen years to this day and he`s brought us so much joy that we`ll cry as little babies when he decides to retire. But, he is a human being with flaws like every other player and deserves to get criticism for some of it.
And I love the ungratefulness part. The guy is paid 40-50 million euros a year. But we are ungrateful if we want to see more passion from him at times.
Well, Simone somehow agrees with Van Gaal. Remember when he said that he would pick Ronaldo for his team instead Messi, even though Messi is th better player?
I agree with that now. Unless it’s a Pep team, I would pick Ronaldo. Ronaldo adapts to the team, while Messi wants the team to adapt to him. I’m talking post 2015 Messi.
Messi is the reason we play 442 because he doesn’t have the stamina nor will to play RW.
Messi is the reason why we must play a low bloke sometimes because he doesn’t press (don’t have the stamina)
Messi is part the reason why we don’t have runners op front because he wants the ball at his feet and others to make the run.
Messi is actually pretty selfish and as Van Gaal said he must reflect over his role in our failures. Because playing in a free role without pressing and running (like wtf) is not good enough in the CHL.
Our whole team is centered around Messi because this is how he wants it. Ronaldo adapts to the team.
They don’t have to create a new position for Ronaldo, they don’t have to press or run more to fit Ronaldo in, they don’t have to play a possession based style to fit Ronaldo. Take whatever team and Ronaldo will fit in.
Messi is a tactical nightmare for a coach to fit in. This is the reason why I think we wont suffer much when he retires
I agree with that now. Unless it’s a Pep team, I would pick Ronaldo. Ronaldo adapts to the team, while Messi wants the team to adapt to him. I’m talking post 2015 Messi.
Messi is the reason we play 442 because he doesn’t have the stamina nor will to play RW.
Messi is the reason why we must play a low bloke sometimes because he doesn’t press (don’t have the stamina)
Messi is part the reason why we don’t have runners op front because he wants the ball at his feet and others to make the run.
Messi is actually pretty selfish and as Van Gaal said he must reflect over his role in our failures. Because playing in a free role without pressing and running (like wtf) is not good enough in the CHL.
Our whole team is centered around Messi because this is how he wants it. Ronaldo adapts to the team.
They don’t have to create a new position for Ronaldo, they don’t have to press or run more to fit Ronaldo in, they don’t have to play a possession based style to fit Ronaldo. Take whatever team and Ronaldo will fit in.
Messi is a tactical nightmare for a coach to fit in. This is the reason why I think we wont suffer much when he retires
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Alik
Moderator
Messi was the best thing about last season, and yet here people are spinning the story as if he is to blame for our embarrassing CL exits and lacklustre plays.
I think that's ludicrous.
the most important thing is messi ending his career in front of ronaldo. so much for your stupid statement. even though the credibility is like that of a nobel peace prize, it's still the thing messi will be measured by by the majority of people
and that is why he needs to finally QUIT this laughable team after the inevitable out in the next game
CatalinR10
Senior Member
yeah yeah , we play 4-4-2 because of Messi not because a midfield of 3 with Rakitic and Busi in it would get run over and humiliated by pretty much every decent midfield out there
Also yeah , he is not good in CL , that's why he's goalscorer , scored against pretty much everyone and was motm , scored 2 at home vs liverpool and created 3 1v1 chances in the away game for Coutinho , Suarez and Alba. But yeah he is selfish and the reason we don't win CL
Won't even bother anymore with people like these lmao.
You have a 31 yo Messi giving one of his best seasons ever scoring over 50 goals a season , get's you past Lyon , Manchester , scores 2 against Liverpool and creates 3 clear chances in the away game but is to blame because the team lost a 3-0 advantage
Utterly disgusting fans.
serghei
Senior Member
van gaal is a fucking idiot
snowy
New member
Folks are making wayyyyyyy to many assumptions about Messi, imagining he's that all powerful off-pitch dictator wielding his sceptre, deciding who gets signed and who plays. The same shit's been said for years about him and the NT.
Riordon, do you really think Leo enjoys getting zero service upfront and being forced to trace all the way back to the equator just to get a whiff of the ball? Nah dude, team post Xaviniesta era has never been set up to his advantage. He's been performing at GOAT level for years DESPITE being in shitty teams.
CR is a top player but you're completely missing it if you'd pick him over Leo. And yes, same as Van G and Simeone. It's just a lack of imagination on their part when they call out Messi as the cause of Messidependencia and they're just acknowledging their own limitations.
Way I see it, put GOAT in a top notch dream team made up of talented attacking players (ie. see The Starting XI thread) and goals would be fusing from all players, not just Leo + he'd see so much of the ball, he'd never have to drop to scuba-diving depths.
There was this debate about just that on Argentina tv. One of his ex-teammates on the panel was saying how even in practice, he'd get jitters and freeze just being in the presence of Leo. Even that Chihuaha Sampa was saying Argentina is Messi's team, therefore delesting himself of any responsibility. See what I mean?
It's messed up to blame Leo for being so good his teammates and coaches forget their ABCs and end up stuttering on the pitch. We need to sign Alpha type super confident players who wouldn't hesitate to take their own shots at goal and hungry to make their own mark on the pitch. This would make us way more unpredictable and help Leo a great deal. Right now, he's like a piece of meat thrown in shark infested waters. It's a miracle he can actually score!
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