Premier League 2018/19

If City play like this vs Madrid we have a great tie to see as football fans. They still have problems finishing their chances and are error prone in defense, but Madrid also have problems creating clear chances against top sides other than through spamming crosses.

I think Madrid's experience will prevail in the end.

E: I just looked up City fixtures before CL. I'm mildly uneasy at the prospect of playing them with this shitshow set of fixtures favouring them massively. Correct me if I'm wrong, but FA Cup quarterfinals happen in March? Meaning City are bound to play at least 3 games less than us before we meet them:

City - Villa (A), Palace (H), Sheff (A), Fulham FA Cup (H), Poonited in League Cup (H), Spurs (A), West Ham (H), Leicester (A) + any other FA Cup games
RM - Valencia + poss. Barca/Atleti in SuperCopa, Sevilla (H), Valladolid (A), Atletico (H), Osasuna (A), Celta (H), Levante (A) with potential 5 max(?) Copa matches squeezed into all this

Also the return Clasico is directly after the first leg of the CL...

serghei said:

If City play like this vs Madrid we have a great tie to see as football fans. They still have problems finishing their chances and are error prone in defense, but Madrid also have problems creating clear chances against top sides other than through spamming crosses.

I think Madrid's experience will prevail in the end.

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I think Madrid lack of goals is a worry and why city should be favoured

Wolfe said:

E: I just looked up City fixtures before CL. I'm mildly uneasy at the prospect of playing them with this shitshow set of fixtures favouring them massively. Correct me if I'm wrong, but FA Cup quarterfinals happen in March? Meaning City are bound to play at least 3 games less than us before we meet them:

City - Villa (A), Palace (H), Sheff (A), Fulham FA Cup (H), Poonited in League Cup (H), Spurs (A), West Ham (H), Leicester (A) + any other FA Cup games
RM - Valencia + poss. Barca/Atleti in SuperCopa, Sevilla (H), Valladolid (A), Atletico (H), Osasuna (A), Celta (H), Levante (A) with potential 5 max(?) Copa matches squeezed into all this

Also the return Clasico is directly after the first leg of the CL...

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The FA Cup QF happens in March 21st so after the 2nd leg of ur CL match vs them.

serghei said:

I think Madrid's experience will prevail in the end.

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Not sure why people seem to think "experience" or "past glory" will give any advantage when clearly this is a team shadow of their past. Is that to say City has no experience?

If Madrid have problems creating chances then the defence will have an easy job.

Jenks said:

Leeds are performing at an absolutely exceptional level for a second-tier team so far. Dominating possession, first to almost everything, taking Arsenal apart, but just lacking a bit of cutting edge in the final third.

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Barcelona and Leeds are my teams. I can honestly say hand on heart that Leeds are better to watch than Barcelona most of the time. The change that Bielsa has made is incredible. As you know anyone can beat anyone in the Championship and it’s been like that for years, games were tight and even on chances. Now most games Leeds dominate the opponent with possession and chances, as Wolfe pointed out that was the problem last season, dominated and but couldn’t get the result, some really unlucky games and should have got promoted imo. This season a bit more clinical and that’s why we are top of the table and will be promoted unless we bottle it massively (wouldn’t surprise me with Leeds). But the difference a manager can make is incredible, Valverde fans just can’t see this. I get that it could get worse, but a manager with clear plan and ideas could make us great again.

henias said:

Is that to say City has no experience?

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Clearly zero experience of consistent cup tie wins against relatively strong opponents.
The competition format does matter. Otherwise logically teams would not ordinarily struggle to defend a favourable scoreline from an away game or avoid the opponents serially scoring against you at home to gain an advantage. Pep doesn't seem to care and prepares his team to play their game no matter what and ignores the opponent's plan for the fixture. Usually to his detriment.

henias said:

Not sure why people seem to think "experience" or "past glory" will give any advantage when clearly this is a team shadow of their past. Is that to say City has no experience?

If Madrid have problems creating chances then the defence will have an easy job.

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They have no experience in CL ties.
Also, due to their horror show defeats in the last few seasons in a CL against everyone, they are probably shaky mentally.

Then, if you add that their coach is Pep who is probably a top manager with the worst CL KO results (without Messi) and especially in away matches, and you have a clear advantage for a more experienced team who shouldn't lose their heads easily.

Someone will surely ask: why is Barca losing heads in a CL since we should have an experience?
Imo:
1. when we were winning CLs, we were winning due to Messi and technical brilliance. We were never winning due to a mental strength.
We just had cheating codes in Messi and won.
2. our other players are pussies, mentally weak
3. and our coach is not a leader either

City:
Similar problems.
A team of technical players without warriors and leaders, since this is how Pep builds his teams.
It worked when he had Messi to cover for his flaws.
Without Messi, you see what you have with City.

Real on the other hand:
1. have a coach who is a leader and not a pussy like EV or Pep
2. Real maybe have a less technical team (but still technical enough), but they DO have some leaders and mental strength.
Ramos, Marcelo. CR/ in the past. Kroos and Modric are decent in a psychological area.
Casemiro will add blood and fight and break bones to everyone.

Basically, Madrid is way closer to Liverpool in that area.
When things get tough, bloody and heated in key moments, they have: technical quality, a few leaders and a few warriors.
Unlike Barca and City who only have technique.

Someone will ask: but but but why is then Madrid behind us in La Liga?
Well:
1. because La Liga is NOT about playing against EQUAL teams as you (50:50 matches) but about trashing Mickey Mouse teams consistently.
And when we have Messi, we have a cheating codes and Messi is alone the strongest weapon in killing off Mickey Mouse teams.
Also, La Liga requires less mental strength than a CL.
So, you can easily survive in La Liga if you have technically superior team filled with pussies.
Since the opponents are so weak, that you will rarely get 50:50 matches with dirty tricks, fouls, blood and heated moments.
This is why Pep's/Barca's light teams can easily dominate league championships.
2. in a CL, there are NO Mickey Mouse teams, and you have 10 equal teams (Barca, Real, Atletico, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Bayern, Juve, Psg) who rely on technique, BUT ALSO physique, provocations, fouls, fights, aggression, dirty tricks, mind games, street fighting spirit in key moments.
And when that happens: Alba and our players usually cry, sulk and go MIA.
Pep is lost by a touchline, his players don't have a fighting spirit or leaders/warriors to shake off that pressure at 2:2 in the 70th minute.
And voila, this is why Pep concedes 4-5 goals against anyone and why Barca can concede 3-4 goals on any away KO match when the pressure is on, since we get bullied by the home team and 80 000 home fans.

You can win a CL only in 3 ways:
1. if you are 2 levels above your opponents, like Pep's Barca with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta
2. if you are as equal as other 10 top teams, then you need a mix of a good coach, technique, physique, a fighting spirit, mental strength and leaders to survive those 50:50 battles
3. if you are have neither a team from a point 1 or 2, you can just be lucky on draws and in some matches, like Chelsea in 2012

A current Barca team is not 2 levels better than the opponents from an example no1.
And we don't have a coach, physique, leaders and a fighting spirit from an example no2.
So, we will either get KOd or win with an insane level of luck.
The same is with City, since they share similar flaws.

henias said:

Is that to say City has no experience?

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In short:
1. no dirty CL warrior KO matches experience
2. no leaders and warriors in a team
3. a pussy coach who goes MIA on away matches and has around 20% wins ratio on away matches in his CL career

Wolfe said:

Clearly zero experience of consistent cup tie wins against relatively strong opponents.
The competition format does matter. Otherwise logically teams would not ordinarily struggle to defend a favourable scoreline from an away game or avoid the opponents serially scoring against you at home to gain an advantage. Pep doesn't seem to care and prepares his team to play their game no matter what and ignores the opponent's plan for the fixture. Usually to his detriment.

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All I'm saying is City can easily beat this Madrid side, you are talking as if he is up against a formidable team. I never said anything about them going far in the competition. Madrid clearly struggled massively since the departure of Ronaldo and still looked clueless attacking wise. Despite their so called "experience", Zidane still hasnt done well integrating the attackers. The presence of aerial threat and a poacher like Ronaldo impacted them the most, not "experience". Going by the logic, many teams were successful in the past, only to be struggling infinitely now, so how come their so called experience doesnt propel them in any way.

The past doesnt really matter as much, City right now looked more potent. Pep does has his flaws just as much as Zidane, his only mistake is not having a centreback signed as a priority and thinking it will go his way. He is too obsessed with ball playing at times, seemed to only realise this recently after being punished in the PL. But all in all, I doubt Madrid will come out of this tie.

And of course this triggers another Pep rant from BBZ

Most overated league ever

Messigician said:

Most overated league ever

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Not anymore...like it or not it’s the best league in the world.

barcafan161 said:

Not anymore...like it or not it’s the best league in the world.

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Just becasue city and Liverpool are strong doesn't mean the league is.

United, Everton, etc look utterly shambolic.

henias said:

All I'm saying is City can easily beat this Madrid side, you are talking as if he is up against a formidable team. I never said anything about them going far in the competition. Madrid clearly struggled massively since the departure of Ronaldo and still looked clueless attacking wise. Despite their so called "experience", Zidane still hasnt done well integrating the attackers. The presence of aerial threat and a poacher like Ronaldo impacted them the most, not "experience". Going by the logic, many teams were successful in the past, only to be struggling infinitely now, so how come their so called experience doesnt propel them in any way.

The past doesnt really matter as much, City right now looked more potent. Pep does has his flaws just as much as Zidane, his only mistake is not having a centreback signed as a priority and thinking it will go his way. He is too obsessed with ball playing at times, seemed to only realise this recently after being punished in the PL. But all in all, I doubt Madrid will come out of this tie.

And of course this triggers another Pep rant from BBZ

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What do you mean by formidable though.. I don't quite understand this 'washed up old Madrid' rhetoric that you choose to repeat without acknowledging the errors of making a generalisation like that. And then you go on and say 'past doesn't matter that much'.. well it does, for both City and Madrid... It was somewhat fair to bring up Ronaldo & no-Ronaldo for the past 2 seasons, not so much this season.

1 - We do not look consistently clueless in the attacking phase. We go through ups and downs, usually dependent on Benzema and Bale form + now also Hazard health & form. That doesn't indicate they are 'clueless' or that they will be clueless vs City whose defense is garbage when faced by a challenge. It is lazy to still be talking about us being 'shit without Ronaldo'. We are not. We've outperformed Ajax in the first leg until collapsing at home, because of the Girona loss in February affecting the team mentally. We've outperformed you arguably in both Clasicos during that spell of horrible form too.

2 - Only PSG have a better defense than RM across any European league this season. And even when you don't accept a stat clear as that, all you need to inspect is the manner and circumstances in which we lost goals to see that most of them aren't due to our system (which was out of balance with old Marcelo and Modrić who are no longer starting), but confidence and concentration related mistakes across the board. Yes - City can still get lifelines from Ramos being Ramos or Kroos being lazy, but otherwise it's as likely it will end up being a Liverpool kind of grind for them in the attacking phase. Ramos at 34 is not slow enough to be unable to deal with Aguero at 32. Carvajal can be a liability and has in the past struggled against Neymar and a much taller Mandżukić, but more often than not he doesn't have problems rising to the occasion and locking players down like he did Ribery. Marcelo is likely gone for big games and Mendy actually was our best defender vs PSG in Paris. Varane is probably the biggest uncertainty, but has been on the rise recently.

3 - Zidane, for however much people want to talk shit about him being a poor tactician, has a track record of not getting outplayed by someone people would consider a superior tactician. He still has never lost a Champions League knockouts tie and that's despite winning only 1 of 3 home games in the knockouts in 17/18. It got close with Juventus comeback and late penalty and Ancelotti where it could have been a very different game had the card gone against Casemiro as it did for Vidal. And even then you had a feeling Madrid were never out of the game as much as they were in say Clasico December 2017.

What is there that makes you feel so strongly about City being better of the two right now anyway? Because they're scoring buckets in a league where 90% of the teams are scared of them? You can do a count on one hand list of teams who regularly step up to them in England - Liverpool, United, Spurs, Wolves. Take them away from that environment where slabhead defenders who can't get their heads around a press aren't a factor and not only will City concede home advantage, they also make every CL game, be it Group Stage or Knockouts, a big fat battle because it's a team who doesn't play them regularly and don't have inhibitions. No matter if it's Liverpool, Lyon or Shakhtar Donetsk.
Add to that the fact that Zidane instills a winner mentality + cold-blooded calmness under stress in the CL and what do you really think they have over RM? A system? Zidane's DILLIGAF attitude dismantled majority of them. His worst results actually came against teams that relied on individualism rather than ping-pong dominance. Youth? Their age average is 27.2, ours is 26.8. Speed? We have tanks at LB, CM and DM, one of the fastest CB duos in Europe and a rocket of a RB.

And no I'm not underestimating them. I think the game can go either way depending what will happen leading up to it. But to think City have a clear advantage over this old shit RM? Uh.. no?

Messigician said:

Just becasue city and Liverpool are strong doesn't mean the league is.

United, Everton, etc look utterly shambolic.

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It’s still the most competitive and the most exciting skill wise. Sure United look like crap half the time but chances are they will go deep in Europa if they catch form.

You can only base it on form over the past year which is where the English teams showed their strengths. It could change but the fact one of their teams won europa and CL past year it does mean something.

There are 20 teams in a league, from top to bottom I don't think the Premier League is the best, certainly, outside the top 2 there is a lot of mediocrity and the teams at the bottom are really poor. Most people judge a league on the top few teams which is why they are saying the Premier League is now the best because of Liverpool and Man City. I still think La Liga is the stronger League especially the bottom half. I don't think there is much difference between Germany, England, Italy or Spain's top divisions, it really depends on which of the big clubs have their act together at the time. I don't find it exciting either, but everybody has their tastes and Spanish football has always catered to mine.