Hakim Ziyech

R

Riordon

New member
FinBarcelonafan said:
We won't have the same talent level but we will be more fun team to watch again. In the end it's more fun to watch players who give 100% for the team. Maybe we will even play like a team and with a plan.
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Messi is the best in the history without doubt. But right now he is sabotaging our whole tactical structure. We are forced to play 442 with no wingers, we have no runners in behind, our midfielders have to make runs in behind and compensate for his lack of defensive effort. No first line of defense or high press. No offensive threat to do the right. The same attacking pattern (Messi-Alba-low cross).

I look forward to the days where we again can play a typical 443 with wingers who run in behind and a true 9. Two true interiors who can create for the attacker’s runs.
 
JohnN

JohnN

Senior Member
Some context is needed in my opinion.

People seem to forget that even now, even while they are declining due to age or complacency or whatever reason, our senior players are world class players.
They are past their prime and all, but to think that we could just pick any random new talented guy and put him in their place would make us more competitive is deluded.

- We can't just replace Pique with any CB. While he brainfarts some times (as he always has), he is still one of the best.

- We can't replace Alba, with most of the available LBs in the market. The man is a generational talent.

- We can't just replace Busquets. He has been a generational talent and a very special player (system dependent, yes).

- We can't just replace Suarez. He is one of the best strikers in the world. We would need to buy a world class striker in his prime to do that. Who is that man?

- Messi is irreplaceable from whatever perspective you look at it. No point in commenting here.

- Rakitic, when in his prime, had to replace Xavi of all people. He was many steps down, but still did a great job. Very much replaceable though.

- We were never able to replace Neymar, because you guessed it, he is a generational talent.

Replacing all these players would not make us more competitive. It would make as more average, except if we bust the bank and buy the "creme de la creme" for each respective position. Because that is what our guys have been.

The younger players that seem to be of that calibre in our squad right now are FDJ and Arthur, to a lesser extent. Mats is also a world class GK. But that's about it.

Semedo is a good player, but not a generational talent.
Same goes Griezmann, Dembele, Alena, Firpo.

The rest are below average in my opinion or too young to assess.

Bottom line is:
Valverde has damaged us in an irreversible way, because he wasted the final years of our best players without lifting the CL, while the circumstances were really in our favour.
But, we should prepare for an era (which has actually started) that Barca are not as dominant as they have been. Team cycles must end at one point, and we have been blessed to witness this team at a very high level for many years.
 
clemente

clemente

New member
JohnN said:
Some context is needed in my opinion.

People seem to forget that even now, even while they are declining due to age or complacency or whatever reason, our senior players are world class players.
They are past their prime and all, but to think that we could just pick any random new talented guy and put him in their place would make us more competitive is deluded.

- We can't just replace Pique with any CB. While he brainfarts some times (as he always has), he is still one of the best.

- We can't replace Alba, with most of the available LBs in the market. The man is a generational talent.

- We can't just replace Busquets. He has been a generational talent and a very special player (system dependent, yes).

- We can't just replace Suarez. He is one of the best strikers in the world. We would need to buy a world class striker in his prime to do that. Who is that man?

- Messi is irreplaceable from whatever perspective you look at it. No point in commenting here.

- Rakitic, when in his prime, had to replace Xavi of all people. He was many steps down, but still did a great job. Very much replaceable though.

- We were never able to replace Neymar, because you guessed it, he is a generational talent.

Replacing all these players would not make us more competitive. It would make as more average, except if we bust the bank and buy the "creme de la creme" for each respective position. Because that is what our guys have been.

The younger players that seem to be of that calibre in our squad right now are FDJ and Arthur, to a lesser extent. Mats is also a world class GK. But that's about it.

Semedo is a good player, but not a generational talent.
Same goes Griezmann, Dembele, Alena, Firpo.

The rest are below average in my opinion or too young to assess.

Bottom line is:
Valverde has damaged us in an irreversible way, because he wasted the final years of our best players without lifting the CL, while the circumstances were really in our favour.
But, we should prepare for an era (which has actually started) that Barca are not as dominant as they have been. Team cycles must end at one point, and we have been blessed to witness this team at a very high level for many years.
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Being a generational talent doesn't mean shit, generations are every 10 years, next generation is coming and will replace the last one, it's not that crazy.

"we can't replace Alba", we can and it will be very easy.

We can replace Busquets, the fact that he is generational talent and special player doesn't mean anything, De Jong is already better than him.

We can very easily replace Suarez, he is not one of the best strikers in the world, not even top 20, stop living in the past.

You realize we already very easily and successfuly replaced Rakitic?

We replaced Neymar with Dembele, before we found out that he is made out of glass, he was performing at the highest level.

You think the generational talents are only those, who didn't turn into shit under EV, but you say Busquets is a generational talent, who I think would be in Puig/Alena position if EV was manager 10 years ago, so maybe wait for the next coach before deciding who is good or bad.
 
JohnN

JohnN

Senior Member
clemente said:
Being a generational talent doesn't mean shit, generations are every 10 years, next generation is coming and will replace the last one, it's not that crazy.

"we can't replace Alba", we can and it will be very easy.

We can replace Busquets, the fact that he is generational talent and special player doesn't mean anything, De Jong is already better than him.

We can very easily replace Suarez, he is not one of the best strikers in the world, not even top 20, stop living in the past.

You realize we already very easily and successfuly replaced Rakitic?

We replaced Neymar with Dembele, before we found out that he is made out of glass, he was performing at the highest level.

You think the generational talents are only those, who didn't turn into shit under EV, but you say Busquets is a generational talent, who I think would be in Puig/Alena position if EV was manager 10 years ago, so maybe wait for the next coach before deciding who is good or bad.
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We give a different meanings to the phrase "generational talent". For me it's not a 10 year cycle but something more important. It's ok though, let's move on.

- Alba is easy to replace? Who do you have in mind?

- We can replace Busquets? With FDJ right? I already mentioned FDJ like a world class prospect, so I will not go against it. Though, he isn't better than Busquets was.

- We can very easily replace Suarez? I did ask the question already, with who?

- "You realize we already very easily and successfuly replaced Rakitic?" - I do, I already mentioned it.

- We replaced Neymar with Dembele. This is a joke to me and most people I guess. We did not replace Neymar. We spent 400m trying to do that, but we failed.

I can't be certain about the level some of our players could reach without the tactical genius of EV at the helm.
But diminishing our senior player's current or past level, will not make our current youngsters better.

Realistically speaking, what kind of budget would we need to rebuild this squad and reach our current level? Not better, just our current level.
 
R

Riordon

New member
JohnN said:
Realistically speaking, what kind of budget would we need to rebuild this squad and reach our current level? Not better, just our current level.
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Depends on different things. We need a coach with a clear strategy and someone who buys players after that strategy to minimize failures.
Depends on our scouting network aswell. If we are going to pay 100+m for Ruiz or Havertz and around 90m for Konata then we are not going anywhere. Liverpool got their frontline for around 100m!! City very rarely overpays. It’s all about our transfer strategy. And a rebuild won’t happen overnight. We need to start this summer and buy 2-4 players every summer who fits the coach strategy. Over 2-3 years we will be there. Liverpool build over some years. We need to find value in the market and stop buying 100m+ players. We are the only club doing it and it really doesn’t work.
 
JohnN

JohnN

Senior Member
Riordon said:
Depends on different things. We need a coach with a clear strategy and someone who buys players after that strategy to minimize failures.
Depends on our scouting network aswell. If we are going to pay 100+m for Ruiz or Havertz and around 90m for Konata then we are not going anywhere. Liverpool got their frontline for around 100m!! City very rarely overpays. It’s all about our transfer strategy. And a rebuild won’t happen overnight. We need to start this summer and buy 2-4 players every summer who fits the coach strategy. Over 2-3 years we will be there. Liverpool build over some years. We need to find value in the market and stop buying 100m+ players. We are the only club doing it and it really doesn’t work.
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Manchester City have been spending over 100m, up to 300m for many years now, until they reached their current status. They have two great squads in reality.
Liverpool are much more balanced in that respect. They don't have Barca's expectations though.

The whole point of the post was what you said: rebuild won’t happen overnight.
Thus, we should prepare for what is coming.

You must realize that it is really hard to point at replacement players right now. Even if it was possible to acquire the best players, which isn't, we would have to spend around 1 billion dollars for that to keep our current level. Which shows that our squad, even if old and complacent and past it, is pretty good.
 
R

Riordon

New member
JohnN said:
Manchester City have been spending over 100m, up to 300m for many years now, until they reached their current status. They have two great squads in reality.
Liverpool are much more balanced in that respect. They don't have Barca's expectations though.

The whole point of the post was what you said: rebuild won’t happen overnight.
Thus, we should prepare for what is coming.

You must realize that it is really hard to point at replacement players right now. Even if it was possible to acquire the best players, which isn't, we would have to spend around 1 billion dollars for that to keep our current level. Which shows that our squad, even if old and complacent and past it, is pretty good.
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I agree it won’t happen overnight. I said in another thread it will take 2-3 years which is quite a long time. Therefore we need a coach with ideas we can buy after.

Regarding City, the point is despite all their money then don’t really overpay. They never pay 100m+ as we do constantly. They are getting value for money. And we should start doing that aswell.

Our current squad is good but in the end we really have just two elite players, Messi and Mats. Maybe Frenkie but that’s it. They can get in a world XI. It’s not enough.

IMO we should already this summer buy as if Messi is gonna leave. We can’t buy players who fits him and then in 2 years time build a completely new squad again.

Ziyech is definitely value for money. Thomas Partey for 50m is value for money.
 
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JohnN

JohnN

Senior Member
We should phase out all our seniors, I agree. Getting a manager with fresh ideas is really step one.
In my mind, there can be a competitive transitioning period if we keep some of the seniors and get the right pieces.
But the domination of the last generation is very hard to replicate.
 
R

Riordon

New member
Two assist and 5 keypasses today. He is really great in the new role Ten Haag has created for him, been very impressed since he has been moved to midfield. Chance creation is easily up there with de Bruyne
 
messi2140

messi2140

6racies Xavi
Riordon said:
Two assist and 5 keypasses today. He is really great in the new role Ten Haag has created for him, been very impressed since he has been moved to midfield. Chance creation is easily up there with de Bruyne
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He is amazing. Not only is he doing it in the Eredivisie but also in the CL. His vision and through balls is up there with Kdb and slightly below Messi.
 
G

gasgas

Senior Member
messi2140 said:
He is amazing. Not only is he doing it in the Eredivisie but also in the CL. His vision and through balls is up there with Kdb and slightly below Messi.
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KdB is better than Messi at throughballs IMO.
He plays them more often, he has more varieties and everytime i see him play them, they are successful.

With Messi i feel he almost always plays them to the left wing and now that opposition have figured it out, they get blocked too often these days
 
FinBarcelonafan

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
gasgas said:
KdB is better than Messi at throughballs IMO.
He plays them more often, he has more varieties and everytime i see him play them, they are successful.

With Messi i feel he almost always plays them to the left wing and now that opposition have figured it out, they get blocked too often these days
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Messi has way less options for through balls. Compare City's off the ball movement to Barca and it's not fair comparison.. We got old shit Suarez waiting for through balls and Dumbele who doesn't understand when to make those runs.

Messi has no options. Neymar was good making runs behind defense.
 
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