Who should be Barca manager next season?

Ursegor said:

I'm generally not very active here you clown, I made 10 posts in over 2 months. Did I rustle your jimmies so hard that you waited 3 weeks for a bad result to make a stupid comeback?

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Nah, someone bumped you for no reason, so I reckon I remind people. Now did I hit the nail on the head? But Isnt results everything for you? Not me though. Just using your logic back at you.

Wolfe said:

You're the most confusing poster. You make one statement that is completely feasible (the latter), but it only comes after a statement that implies you have some wires fried in your skull. Fucking obviously there is a winter window. Who was the last senior player that went to non-retirement league and got sold impulsively in the middle of a transition season?

Absolutely true that the two old guards are similar. Both are giving a plethora of reasons their time is up. It is up to the presidents to make the call.

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Their time is not up. And they show it. Both squads have won big titles in every year in the last 5 years running almost. The difference is that at times these squads have been prepared by the wrong managers, or by managers who completely lost it in that particular season.

If you watched Madrid under Benitez you could have said that that their aging players were done. But they were far from done and Zidane came and won 3 CLs and a Liga. It's the same here. Some managers know how to manage big teams. Some don't.

Take a look at Valverde. Everyone said that playing the same players almost every weak is a bad strategy. What happens? Valverde uses almost the same first 11 3 times in a week, players look dead tired, and we receive 4 goals against Betis, losing the game.

serghei said:

Their time is not up. And they show it. Both squads have won big titles in every year in the last 5 years running almost. The difference is that at times these squads have been prepared by the wrong managers, or by managers who completely lost it in that particular season.

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Lmao. Yep. Every player that was once great and is now over 30 is still great, just mismanaged They show it. When they want to that is. And even when they want to they are beatable, just like they were for nearly 4 years.

Haha.

I'm actually quite glad Madrid fans aren't nearly as deluded about our squad leaders.

What ageing players under Benitez? We had no ageing players in our starting 11. Ronaldo and Modrić were 31. That's it. Everyone else in their prime.

PS And it's like you have some obsession stating that everyone criticising players is supporting the manager. When literally nobody that your kind call 'Valverde apologists' is saying that. It's like it can't be both in your view

Wolfe said:

Lmao. Yep. Every player that was once great and is now over 30 is still great, just mismanaged They show it. When they want to that is. And even when they want to they are beatable, just like they were for nearly 4 years.

Haha.

I'm actually quite glad Madrid fans aren't nearly as deluded about our squad leaders.

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I really hope they follow your vision and sell the likes of Ramos, Marcelo, Kroos, Benzema. Can't wait. But they won't. They will sign a new manager, sign 1-2 players and that's it. Let's see Solari, maybe they won't even sign a manager if he does great.

serghei said:

I really hope they follow your vision and sell the likes of Ramos, Marcelo, Kroos, Benzema. Can't wait.

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Again misrepresenting half of my statement. Where did I say I wish Kroos is sold? Where did I say Ramos and Marcelo should be sold?

Wolfe said:

Again misrepresenting half of my statement. Where did I say I wish Kroos is sold? Where did I say Ramos and Marcelo should be sold?

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But you seem to believe complacency is the fault of the player, and the manager doesn't have a crucial role in managing the squad so that complacency doesn't happen, or if it does happen, that is fixed fast.

Yep the Barca squad is finished with oldies holding us back. But it's not Valverde's fault for playing them week in week out. Classic Wolfe dichotomy.

No matter which reasons some of the senior players , particulary Pique , Busquets , Rakitic and Suarez (at times) are playing bad , at the end of day the blame is on Valverde no matter how you look at it

Lets assume these 2 scenarios :

Scenario 1 : Some of the senior players are clearly past it : Well , Bartomeu and the board did a great job this season and bought great replacements for those senior players that are past it , so why not use them ?

Scenario 2: Some of the senior players aren't motivated anymore because they won it all : Well bench them and play young and fresh players that Valverde has in his squad.

The way Lucho handled Xavi in that treble winning season , should be a guide on how to phase out some senior players.

Edit: I mean ffs this is a lineup Barca can play , which imo is a very competive 11 while having just 1 or 2 senior players.

Mats
Semedo-Lenglet/Vermaelen-Umtiti-Alba
Arthur-Vidal-Couthino
Malcom/Messi- Suarez/Messi-/Dembele

Senior players can't be past it as long as they produce great games, win CLs, La Ligas and such. The problem is with consistency and fitness levels. Basically, with age, you lose consistency and you lose physical attributes like speed, stamina etc. Which is why older players need to be managed wisely.

serghei said:

But you seem to believe complacency is the fault of the player, and the manager doesn't have a crucial role in managing the squad so that complacency doesn't happen, or if it does happen, that is fixed fast.

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No man, I don't. I am merely saying it is on both where you seem to think hiring a Klopp will automatically fix every bad habit possible. These are old players all past their primes. In the previous post you made a claim Madrid's players were past it under Benitez, which is just not true for that season.
What this forum likes to do is take out the factor of player tendencies out of the window as if it's entirely in manager's control. Which it isn't. Players have various habits and styles that are independent of who the manager is. Messi walked for multiple managers. Suarez was a cunt under Rodgers, Tabarez, Lucho and EV, eventually also started walking since he takes it from his mate. And the habit is always going to be there since he sees it more profitable to not exert himself until big games come around. Rakitić has a massive error bar on his form every time he plays. So does Pique, under any manager.

No manager will make Kroos get rid of his dislike for tracking when he played CAM converted to player in a double CM role. No manager will make Marcelo defend (nor should they), but over time the problem gets worse not better. No manager will make Ramos stop throwing elbows whenever he sees inevitable contact. In the same way, they won't stop Messi from walking in every game where it's just not happening.

There's a reason Madrid and Barca are both nearly even on points this year.

messi2140 said:

No matter which reasons some of the senior players , particulary Pique , Busquets , Rakitic and Suarez (at times) are playing bad , at the end of day the blame is on Valverde no matter how you look at it

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Not always. This is a clique of players who have a bond with each other and whenever you bench one, it's like benching them all so they all react negatively. It is why most managers avoid it and those that don't do not last long.

Wolfe said:

No man, I don't. I am merely saying it is on both where you seem to think hiring a Klopp will automatically fix every bad habit possible. These are old players all past their primes. In the previous post you made a claim Madrid's players were past it under Benitez, which is just not true for that season.
What this forum likes to do is take out the factor of player tendencies out of the window as if it's entirely in manager's control. Which it isn't. Players have various habits and styles that are independent of who the manager is. Messi walked for multiple managers. Suarez was a cunt under Rodgers, Tabarez, Lucho and EV, eventually also started walking since he takes it from his mate. And the habit is always going to be there since he sees it more profitable to not exert himself until big games come around. Rakitić has a massive error bar on his form every time he plays. So does Pique, under any manager.

No manager will make Kroos get rid of his dislike for tracking when he played CAM converted to player in a double CM role. No manager will make Marcelo defend (nor should they), but over time the problem gets worse not better. No manager will make Ramos stop throwing elbows whenever he sees inevitable contact. In the same way, they won't stop Messi from walking in every game where it's just not happening.

There's a reason Madrid and Barca are both nearly even on points this year.

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I see. Here is where we disagree:

1) I said Madrid played as if their players were past it under Benitez, but a new, hungrier, better, more modern, and smart manager like Zidane took over the squad and showed that their problems were mostly down to the manager not being a great fit. There can be two sides of the coin. One where the manager just does his best but the squad doesn't help him, and the other when then manager is not a good fit.

Player quality at Barcelona and Real Madrid is a non issue, or better put, the last issue. If those two teams have quality issues then every other team bar 1-2 teams should just quit playing fooball because they have no hope.

2) Sure, players have bad habits. We moan about those too. I moan about Messi walking almost as often as I moan about Valverde. Underperforming players also need to be handled. This goes back to the manager basically.

We are aware of the players' bad habits, or that they declined. Valverde doesn't do anything to try to fix the issues though. He is a coward yes man. Only makes matters worse by playing them non stop and adding exhaustion over our existent issues.

Wolfe said:

Not always. This is a clique of players who have a bond with each other and whenever you bench one, it's like benching them all so they all react negatively. It is why most managers avoid it and those that don't do not last long.

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Not sure I can agree with that. I mean we have precedent with Pique who got his ass benched by Lucho and went on to having one his best season and really looking like a leader that season. Another example (which is a bit off-topic) but look at Alba he finally had something to prove ( getting back to Spain's national team) and is on his way to having his best season aswell. The bench might be harmless object , but boy is it one hell of a motivating tool.

serghei said:

We are aware of the players' bad habits, or that they declined. Valverde doesn't do anything to try to fix the issues though. He is a coward yes man. Only makes matters worse by playing them non stop and adding exhaustion over our existent issues.

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True. Or at least partly. I do think he is nowhere near capable of making right calls consistently. And yet the board aren't the ones under scrutiny for poor transfer policy in the past 5 years and failing to be decisive in manager choice. Almost never do I see posts in Bartomeu thread and he is the core problem pursuing terrible targets and not committing to the will of a manager he is choosing to keep.
They don't know what they want from him and are satisfied with keeping ageing squad despite clear willingness to pump money into single big names without accelerating the transition.

Terrible upper echelon management willing to put up with Pique who has no business being in Spain and could easily be off to Miami by now. So who is the real coward here? Valverde or Barto?

[MENTION=18675]messi2140[/MENTION]
Yes, maybe he did. And now he is 2 years older and in a far shitter mental and physical state.

Bartomeu not getting stick for the state of our club? What forum have you been reading Wolfe

Wolfe said:

True. Or at least partly. I do think he is nowhere near capable of making right calls consistently. And yet the board aren't the ones under scrutiny for poor transfer policy in the past 5 years and failing to be decisive in manager choice. Almost never do I see posts in Bartomeu thread and he is the core problem pursuing terrible targets and not committing to the will of a manager he is choosing to keep.
They don't know what they want from him and are satisfied with keeping ageing squad despite clear willingness to pump money into single big names without accelerating the transition.

Terrible upper echelon management willing to put up with Pique who has no business being in Spain and could easily be off to Miami by now. So who is the real coward here? Valverde or Barto?

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The blame lays on ultimately on the board, yes. I think the majority on this forum agree with that.