CL | 1/8 Finals: FC Barcelona - Chelsea 4-1 agg.

Neymessi said:

You have been repeating the same shit again and again and again. None of your posts have an argument apart from "But but he won trophies". Its not that tough winning trophies when you have arguably the best front 3 ever.

Your scolari analysis is also retarded and just shows that you are making statements that don't make sense out of desperation after being cornered by your own logic. No a great club coach but an NT coach? Do they play different sports in both? Are there different rules? Now you will say International tournaments are short and blah blah but that won't be true. But forget that. Scolari was a great brazil coach? Do you even football? He was one of the most atrocious big name coaches in recent memory. Just goes on to show that you really rate a manager by his trophy count. I thought you would realize the fault of your logic when I brought the scolari example. Happy delusion mate. He was an atrocious NT manager and way worse than lucho ever was.

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Who are the top coaches for you?

LeeRomeno said:

Yea, i feel the same way, feels like I am arguing about whether earth is round or flat. Is football played with 3 players? Why do you keep mentioning that? You can use that random stupid argument of good players winning trophies any coach and top team winning and you are left with being Ranieri and Rehhagel are 2 only great managers in last 25 years. Hilarious how you use same argument against Lucho, which have been used against Pep aswell. Is Pep average aswell? I mean I have stated it myself, he was extremely lucky to end up managing such a once in a lifetime quality squad.
Coaching clubs and NTs are very different tasks and different quality and mentality is needed. National teams only play in a) cup tournaments b) your selection is limited to what player you have in nation c) you cannot build the team as you wish, you rather have to make best of what you have d) you do not manage the trainings and sessions on daily bases, but have a few periods in year where you gather e) international tournaments are short compared to league season and it is true rofl
Are you on drugs?

As for Scolari story, another random statement on another coach who is still up to date the last manager to bring trophy to Brazil and they have been top football country forever and well his second try was also the closest they have ever been since then (that Germany loss was embarrasing though) Never really cared for Scolari, neither have I really watched any of his teams play apart from WC Brazil and Chelsea, but winning WC makes one automatically a great coach nomatter what.

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Pep revolutionzed our playing style with his own philosphy. And thats why he is considered one of the best. If we played like chelsea or atletico madrid and won what we won I really doubt he would be looked upon as such a great manager. So yes it wasn't only trophies that made pep great. You talk about morinhio and he has his qualities like being defensive at the right time and knowing how to win. You talk about ferguson he was tactically a genius too. Its never just trophies that account to a coach's quality specially when you are coaching barca which is such a strong team anyway. Lucho gave half a season of good football during the second half of treble season consistently. The first half of the next season was also somewhat good. Rest of it was mostly in a nutshell a starting of dumb starting 11 and weird ass tactics with not much planning.

No my friend scolari was an atrocious and a horribly clueless coach.

but winning WC makes one automatically a great coach nomatter what.

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This is what I am talking about. You keep pedantically arguing about this shit logic of yours. Winning any trophy doesn't makes a coach automatically great. Its a combination of many things and it would have taken a really bad coach to not win that brazil team a WC they were such an insanely good team. Scolari was horrible, as soon as the brazil team turned a bit okayish his faults were found out. I really feel funny having to argue that scolari wasn't a good coach. Its such common knowledge.

Neymessi said:

Pep revolutionzed our playing style with his own philosphy. And thats why he is considered one of the best. If we played like chelsea or atletico madrid and won what we won I really doubt he would be looked upon as such a great manager. So yes it wasn't only trophies that made pep great. You talk about morinhio and he has his qualities like being defensive at the right time and knowing how to win. You talk about ferguson he was tactically a genius too. Its never just trophies that account to a coach's quality specially when you are coaching barca which is such a strong team anyway. Lucho gave half a season of good football during the second half of treble season consistently. The first half of the next season was also somewhat good. Rest of it was mostly in a nutshell a starting of dumb starting 11 and weird ass tactics with not much planning.

No my friend scolari was an atrocious and a horribly clueless coach.


This is what I am talking about. You keep pedantically arguing about this shit logic of yours. Winning any trophy doesn't makes a coach automatically great. Its a combination of many things and it would have taken a really bad coach to not win that brazil team a WC they were such an insanely good team. Scolari was horrible, as soon as the brazil team turned a bit okayish his faults were found out. I really feel funny having to argue that scolari wasn't a good coach. Its such common knowledge.

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Pep just took Rijkaards squad, got rid of bad apples and enjoyed the best footballer ever alongside golden generation of spanish/catalan do the work.
Ever since then he is the number 1 spender among coaches in the world and only managed squads with top players.
How many CLs has he won without Messi?
Plain average coach.

That is a random subjective opinion that is not better or worse than yours. Which is why greatness in coaching will be always related to achievements.
Pep would have been sacked after couple of trophyless years no matter how the squad played or what revolution he brought, same with any of the other names you mention. We only speak of them highly because of what they achieved.
You trashing Lucho has more to do with that sand in your vagina than any proper argument.

LeeRomeno said:

Pep just took Rijkaards squad, got rid of bad apples and enjoyed the best footballer ever alongside golden generation of spanish/catalan do the work.
Ever since then he is the number 1 spender among coaches in the world and only managed squads with top players.
How many CLs has he won without Messi?
Plain average coach.

That is a random subjective opinion that is not better or worse than yours. Which is why greatness in coaching will be always related to achievements.
Pep would have been sacked after couple of trophyless years no matter how the squad played or what revolution he brought, same with any of the other names you mention. We only speak of them highly because of what they achieved.
You trashing Lucho has more to do with that sand in your vagina than any proper argument.

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So are you saying pep is an average coach? Or are you applying my logic to show he wasn't good according to me? If its the former you are an idiot and if its the latter then you are still an idiot because I never said pep didn't have a great lot of players with him. But his tactics took us to another level. We have won same amount of trophies after he left but you will still see us calling his days as our golden period because of the great football we used to play back then.

The tactics and the game has never been the same after he left. He was good in bayern and got knocked out against a really great real and barca side and got close to defeating a defensive atletico side who has always given all big teams problems. Pep would never have been sacked when we were playing that great. You are retarded. We were the most visually pleasing side back then and the game was amazing. Had he made us reached finals or semis he would have definitely been continued.

You are just wasting my time with an extremely boring argument. Literally no one thinks lucho was special. I can't stress this enough. If anything you are dumb for having an abberrant opinioin not me. For someone who said subjective opinion should be respected its hypocritical of you to attack me when I am the one who believes in what the majority does.

He was trashed by real and barcelona, barcelona with lucho, he wasnt even close to go through, then 3rd season he was close vs atletico, but he didnt make it.


Edit: i will remember golden period more because xavi, iniesta and messi in prime, pep was lucky coach to get that team, andcwatching this real side with zidane, who is also average coach? Pep should do more in CL with that barca squad



just noticed you called leeromeno retarded just because he rates lucho, and you as a pep fanboy and his asslicker cant accept that, "pep was doing great at bayern" yes, maybe in one team legaue, bundes, but in CL he looked like a average coach vs barca and real

Pep wasn't great at Bayern. Jupp's team was one of the best and Pep changed the style failing to produce at the top level showing his weaknesses as a manager.
I've never met a Bayern fan who's pleased with Pep's term. That says something.

Since Barca he hasn't done anything in the CL, one could even argue he didn't do enough with Barca.
Nobody denys he's a class manager but he's not perfect.

Joan Laporta said:

Pep wasn't great at Bayern. Jupp's team was one of the best and Pep changed the style failing to produce at the top level showing his weaknesses as a manager.
I've never met a Bayern fan who's pleased with Pep's term. That says something.

Since Barca he hasn't done anything in the CL, one could even argue he didn't do enough with Barca.
Nobody denys he's a class manager but he's not perfect.

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Pep did well at Bayern. Was unlucky not to win the CL in his last season.

Joan Laporta said:

I've never met a Bayern fan who's pleased with Pep's term. That says something.

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Liar.

vlad said:

He was trashed by real and barcelona, barcelona with lucho, he wasnt even close to go through, then 3rd season he was close vs atletico, but he didnt make it.


Edit: i will remember golden period more because xavi, iniesta and messi in prime, pep was lucky coach to get that team, andcwatching this real side with zidane, who is also average coach? Pep should do more in CL with that barca squad



just noticed you called leeromeno retarded just because he rates lucho, and you as a pep fanboy and his asslicker cant accept that, "pep was doing great at bayern" yes, maybe in one team legaue, bundes, but in CL he looked like a average coach vs barca and real

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Yeah, Pep is so average that his teams made the semi finals of the Champions League every year except last.

Origami said:

Liar.

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You are rude.

vlad said:

He was trashed by real and barcelona, barcelona with lucho, he wasnt even close to go through, then 3rd season he was close vs atletico, but he didnt make it.


Edit: i will remember golden period more because xavi, iniesta and messi in prime, pep was lucky coach to get that team, andcwatching this real side with zidane, who is also average coach? Pep should do more in CL with that barca squad



just noticed you called leeromeno retarded just because he rates lucho, and you as a pep fanboy and his asslicker cant accept that, "pep was doing great at bayern" yes, maybe in one team legaue, bundes, but in CL he looked like a average coach vs barca and real

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He played against a barca side that was at its peak in the last 5 years without robben or ribery at camp nou. The tie ended there and then. And this was a very very strong real side yet again just like barca. The real tie was 1-0 on bernabeu and in order to win at allianz they went all out and conceeded 4. They got really close to beating atletico and were unlucky not to go through and it is atletico's forte to score and defend and just narrowly win a tie. It wasn't like he turned it into an average side he lost to really good sides and their attack and defense in general were more or less similar under heyneckes.

All bayern fans who don't rate him never had that thinking from day 1. Bayern's game was amazing even under pep even in cls before semis. Its just that he couldn't manage to bring out the final CL trophy that they criticize him and honestly the best I can ask a coach for is to play great. After that luck carries a huge weightage in determing the winner. And peps bayern did play great, you can take total goals assists goals conceeded and see they were more or less the same than under heynckes, and its not like heynckes won many cls, he just won 1. He was unlucky to not win a CL, he was definitely a great manager.

No I didn't call him retarded because he rates lucho, I called him retarded because he thinks trophies are sole parameter to judge a coach. Also he thinks scolari was a great coach BECAUSE he won the WC and winning it makes him automatically great, which is BS. Scolari was utter shit and still managed to win the WC because of a godly team. You can more or less say the same about lucho apart from the fact that he wasn't utter shit like scolari and average at best.

Stoichkov1 said:

if they park the bus we can just pass the ball for 90 mins without urgency, with a 0-0 we advance.

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Exactly, we must play in a smart and brain-based way (not like under Lucho), we have to play like the return leg in copa vs Valencia.

Neymessi said:

So are you saying pep is an average coach? Or are you applying my logic to show he wasn't good according to me? If its the former you are an idiot and if its the latter then you are still an idiot because I never said pep didn't have a great lot of players with him. But his tactics took us to another level. We have won same amount of trophies after he left but you will still see us calling his days as our golden period because of the great football we used to play back then.

The tactics and the game has never been the same after he left. He was good in bayern and got knocked out against a really great real and barca side and got close to defeating a defensive atletico side who has always given all big teams problems. Pep would never have been sacked when we were playing that great. You are retarded. We were the most visually pleasing side back then and the game was amazing. Had he made us reached finals or semis he would have definitely been continued.

You are just wasting my time with an extremely boring argument. Literally no one thinks lucho was special. I can't stress this enough. If anything you are dumb for having an abberrant opinioin not me. For someone who said subjective opinion should be respected its hypocritical of you to attack me when I am the one who believes in what the majority does.

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Feels like im arguing with an imbecile. I specifically have mentioned how trophies are what make a coach great and suddenly I would state that Pep, who is one of the most decorated coaches in modern ages is average. Yes that makes massive sense. He is great coach and did alot of good things for the club, he was in no way perfect though and had his share of mistakes. Just like I never claimed Lucho was greatest ever and never failed in anything.
Lucho totally reinvented how we play. Almost all my neutral fans including myself feel like Lucho made Barcelona watchable again. How we changed from sideways passing boring team to fast, direct and entertaining squad is not just letting people play. He had a plan and created what you yourself described as

He played against a barca side that was at its peak in the last 5 years

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This attitude of when Luchos Barca was great, it was because of top players, but when it played worse, it was because of coach is pathetic, it can be said with any coach. Peps squad when it won was great because of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and others in their prime, if they failed, it was because of Pep being stubborn and mistakes.
Also, please give me a list of great or "special" as you call them coaches, who have not won anything. Would be really interested to see that. Achievements give the needed outcome for any tactical mastermind.
And what kind of majority are you talking about? I am 100% sure that if you ask every Barcelona fan, majority would not say Lucho is an average coach. But that is impossible to ever know, which is why facts and achievements are the only things that matter in the end.

Neymessi said:

He played against a barca side that was at its peak in the last 5 years without robben or ribery at camp nou. The tie ended there and then. And this was a very very strong real side yet again just like barca. The real tie was 1-0 on bernabeu and in order to win at allianz they went all out and conceeded 4. They got really close to beating atletico and were unlucky not to go through and it is atletico's forte to score and defend and just narrowly win a tie. It wasn't like he turned it into an average side he lost to really good sides and their attack and defense in general were more or less similar under heyneckes.

All bayern fans who don't rate him never had that thinking from day 1. Bayern's game was amazing even under pep even in cls before semis. Its just that he couldn't manage to bring out the final CL trophy that they criticize him and honestly the best I can ask a coach for is to play great. After that luck carries a huge weightage in determing the winner. And peps bayern did play great, you can take total goals assists goals conceeded and see they were more or less the same than under heynckes, and its not like heynckes won many cls, he just won 1. He was unlucky to not win a CL, he was definitely a great manager.

No I didn't call him retarded because he rates lucho, I called him retarded because he thinks trophies are sole parameter to judge a coach. Also he thinks scolari was a great coach BECAUSE he won the WC and winning it makes him automatically great, which is BS. Scolari was utter shit and still managed to win the WC because of a godly team. You can more or less say the same about lucho apart from the fact that he wasn't utter shit like scolari and average at best.

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Funny, I know 3 Bayern fans and all of them say that he was okey coach, but nothing special and game was visually alot less pleasing and boring vs Jupps team. He won what he had to win, but nothing more. And no trophies are not only parameter to judge a coach, just like with any other leadership role, you have main and secondary KPIs, also what trophies and how matter. But treble in European football is such a rare and difficult achievement that only great coaches manage to do that.

LeeRomeno said:

Feels like im arguing with an imbecile. I specifically have mentioned how trophies are what make a coach great and suddenly I would state that Pep, who is one of the most decorated coaches in modern ages is average. Yes that makes massive sense. He is great coach and did alot of good things for the club, he was in no way perfect though and had his share of mistakes. Just like I never claimed Lucho was greatest ever and never failed in anything.
Lucho totally reinvented how we play. Almost all my neutral fans including myself feel like Lucho made Barcelona watchable again. How we changed from sideways passing boring team to fast, direct and entertaining squad is not just letting people play. He had a plan and created what you yourself described as

This attitude of when Luchos Barca was great, it was because of top players, but when it played worse, it was because of coach is pathetic, it can be said with any coach. Peps squad when it won was great because of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and others in their prime, if they failed, it was because of Pep being stubborn and mistakes.
Also, please give me a list of great or "special" as you call them coaches, who have not won anything. Would be really interested to see that. Achievements give the needed outcome for any tactical mastermind.
And what kind of majority are you talking about? I am 100% sure that if you ask every Barcelona fan, majority would not say Lucho is an average coach. But that is impossible to ever know, which is why facts and achievements are the only things that matter in the end.



Funny, I know 3 Bayern fans and all of them say that he was okey coach, but nothing special and game was visually alot less pleasing and boring vs Jupps team. He won what he had to win, but nothing more. And no trophies are not only parameter to judge a coach, just like with any other leadership role, you have main and secondary KPIs, also what trophies and how matter. But treble in European football is such a rare and difficult achievement that only great coaches manage to do that.

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This is the first time you have made a point about lucho apart from trophies after like 20 posts. Yes you could argue he dispensed tiki taka and made it more direct but that stayed for like one year when we played efficiently under him, apart from that there were really bad tactics all around. Bad lineups, bad buildup play bad everything. If one player plays shit then the player is shit, but when the team is shit as a unit then the coach is to blame. So yes when we used to play shit with such a good team, he was definitely responsible. We played great under him for like a year in the second half of treble season and the next 6 months after that. Apart from that we were worse than a team of our caliber would be expected to play. With a great squad like us he still made us play like shit with his terrible lineups and bad gameplay. We could have EASILY won the la liga last year had he not started such insanse lineups consistently not once but all season long. His juventus tactics and lineups weren't on point either. He gave a total of one year of consistently good football. Even in the treble season he was horrible in the first 6 months. As I said, he wasn't shit, he was average, nothing more than that at all.

The thing is when you are a good coach chances are you will win big so there aren't many examples there but simeone, sampaoli, tuchel and klopp are some cases off the top of my head. When you talk about coaches who won a lot but aren't that great then lucho and zidane come to mind. You say it is impossible to know if lucho was average? Create a poll here with 3 options as special, okayish and shit and see it for yourself. I can't get over the fact that you gave me the link of the shedend forum where like 90% of the fans there did not want him at all and you tried to quote the 10% who were naive. Literally no fan of a big team would want him as a coach. Its only your delusion thinking he is special. Pep had a bit of tiki taka to its bayern style and hence it became a bit less visually pleasing but it was still very very good, just like it is in manc now. Why don't you ask your 3 bayern friends if they would have taken lucho after ancelotti left had jupp not been available?

You keep dodging the point that you are a minority when it comes to thinking he was a great coach, you are someone who thinks scolari was a brilliant coach because of his WC trophy (LOL) and you don't answer why you are even arguing against me if you believe this is a subjective opinion.