21 - Frenkie de Jong

khaled_a_d said:

32M was eredivisie record for sale, for an attacker, for epl club in 2015. 37M for a player from Ajax in 2010 was almost as expensive as David Villa.
This proves my point even more actually , Chygrynskiy was called as an overpaid when it is done and the club itself rejected the deal but Pep was putting his renewal on hold and the club was forced into it.
Benzema is more related to a deal of Mpabbe actually, he was the French phenomenal striker back then, he was playing well in every level and he cost 35M plus incentives. Don't tell me that 35Min 2009=180M in 2017, same for a player like Lemar too who was a midfielder in Ligue 1 and moved for 70M (after his value actually dropped from year before) while Nasri went to Arsenal for 15M a decade earlier.

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You are right. It is quite hard to actually look at the prices. We need to look if there is relase clause (Torreira + F. Ruiz) and also has the player had his first international appearance yet? Are there other clubs interested? who is buying him?


FDJ is not really considered a mere talent, I believe he has already passed that; therefore, 75m is reasonable for me. He is a starter for his national team, doing well in the CL and there are several clubs that are interested in him. He is also one of the most wanted players in the world currently.

I find FDJ's situation to be close to Isco's 2013 who was bought for 30m.

Don't tell me that 35Min 2009=180M in 2017

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Of course it is not. It is just a comparison. Prices will keep going up because clubs earn more, which is understandable.

How much do you think FDJ is worth? what is a fair price in your opinion?

maldhowayanr said:

How much do you think FDJ is worth? what is a fair price in your opinion?

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As I said in original post, it isn't just about FDJ. It is about the need for some bargains here and there in the market.
Bigger clubs in lower leagues has talents that goes to NT and play CL, now clubs are earning more but also there are more clubs that earning more, makes demand more than supply when it comes to talents and that makes "new shining toy" as BBZ calls them more expensive but I don't think their resale value if they fail being good. Making them high risk high reward type of transfers, if player X is bought by club Y for 75M and fails he could get them 50M loss in couple of years. That is why I think we need to start looking at it differently, try to follow smaller clubs in other leagues or even 2nd division clubs to get those bargains.

maldhowayanr said:

How much do you think FDJ is worth? what is a fair price in your opinion?

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I assume you are asking about fair price for us? I think it depends on our budget and players we need to sign.
If we are settled in Semedo/Roberto/Wague for RB, won't try to replace Suarez next summer then I would say it is fair to pay up to 70-75M for each of FDJ and MDL , get a cheap back up LB and try to put some faith in Alena/Puig.
If we feel we need another RB, or another striker, then we need to sort priorities and compromise.
Also as I said before, a lot depends on Umtiti situation and his knee, if the club has any doubt about his long term health or him turning into injury prone player, a CB should be prioritized for sure over any other midfielder. If that means we don't sign FDJ then we have to do it unfortunately, we have Arthur as a young core player for midfield, we will have non for defense

^
I get your point now and I agree. As the market keeps going up the risks become more apparent.

khaled_a_d said:

It is amazing how much did the market has changed in past half decade. 5 years ago players like FDJ were the low risk high reward players, now they are the high risk high reward players.
Many top clubs being unwilling to let their stars go has inflated the market for players in top sides of lower leagues, they can now demands huge sums for their players, problem with that resale value of those players aren't huge once they fail in top competitions.
Regardless of FDj himself, their need to be smarter alternatives atm, players from mid table clubs now are more of bargains, look at Calcio for example, player like Lucas Torreira would have been great addition to any top side and he has went for 30M.

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Its natural that players who are young and perform well against top opposition cost more money. Thats the risk we have to deal with if we wait until the player becomes a star in the CL before signing the player. The player will be very expensive or we also risk losing out. I dont see how anything has changed. Prices go up across the board. How much would Harry Kane cost if he went to Man U? 250m? More?

Bargains can be had if we strike early and not wait until there's a bidding war with City, PSG and Man U. But alot of people dont want players they consider unproven and that means expensive signings unless we trigger low release clauses like Arsenal did with Torreira or sign players with a year left on their contract or similar (Ter Stegen). Signing a 29 year old means we are likely to get two good seasons out of that player if he doesnt flop. Eight seasons for that one position means we'll have to sign four 29 year old players over a number of years, all have to be a success and all demanding high wages, and no sell-on value. These are massive investments and luxury signings and the reward is not as high as someone who can play for a decade or more like RM signing a young Ramos for example. Perhaps we're hoping De Ligt can be our Ramos.

Jair Ventura said:

Are we going to keep ignoring the fact that FDJ's father was referring to Barcelona's weather when he referenced their climate?

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Are you going to ignore that every single piece of reponse from FDJ's side both in interviews and social media show that he would clearly pick Barca first if it came down to it? Why do you downplay the fact that Barca is most likely his preferred destination?

The only issue here is the negotiation with Ajax and the bidding war with other clubs.

DonAndres said:

Are you going to ignore that every single piece of reponse from FDJ's side both in interviews and social media show that he would clearly pick Barca first if it came down to it? Why do you downplay the fact that Barca is most likely his preferred destination?

The only issue here is the negotiation with Ajax and the bidding war with other clubs.

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This is you fantasizing. In reality, sources closest to Ajax have him in Paris after their management meet with Henrique & Maxwell last week. And this is coming's from someone who doesn't care where he lands one way or the other.

I am not preoccupied about FDJ, we already have Arthur (though I prefer FDJ over him). I think we need more of a final pass/creative 24/25 year old midfielder considering Coutinho might not be the one for the job.

Bet you Valverde never saw him play. He can't appreciate talent under his nose let alone outside Spain.

Barcaman said:

Bet you Valverde never saw him play. He can't appreciate talent under his nose let alone outside Spain.

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EV doesn't do the transfers lol. He just gives his opinion on who would be a good signing like Willian which was shut down

Laplacian said:

I am not preoccupied about FDJ, we already have Arthur (though I prefer FDJ over him). I think we need more of a final pass/creative 24/25 year old midfielder considering Coutinho might not be the one for the job.

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So after 1 season you consider that 150m invesment coutinho who came as a proven world class player isnt guy for this job, while ajax prospect who play in nederland legaue is that guy


Maybe problem with coutinho struggle is due to coach, slow possession football doesnt suit him, look at paco alcacer, he was rated here same as munir, now look him at dortmund, which is on top of the cl group and on the top of the table in bundes with him as a main striker, that should tell you something, slow possession football doesnt suit nobody


Edit: i was on the train against dembele, im still on it, i cant ignore price that he came with and fact that he is still a talent with glimpse of world class player, but im sure in faster gameplay he would thrive as a fast and skillfull player

Don't know who would want to go to Paris these days. And it will probably get worse.

If Barca gets serious about we will see him in blaugrana shirt next season.

vlad said:

So after 1 season you consider that 150m invesment coutinho who came as a proven world class player isnt guy for this job, while ajax prospect who play in nederland legaue is that guy


Maybe problem with coutinho struggle is due to coach, slow possession football doesnt suit him, look at paco alcacer, he was rated here same as munir, now look him at dortmund, which is on top of the cl group and on the top of the table in bundes with him as a main striker, that should tell you something, slow possession football doesnt suit nobody


Edit: i was on the train against dembele, im still on it, i cant ignore price that he came with and fact that he is still a talent with glimpse of world class player, but im sure in faster gameplay he would thrive as a fast and skillfull player

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+1 Coutinho is world class. Was at Liverpool, is for Brazil and has been for us at times. He’s definitely not the problem.

vlad said:

So after 1 season you consider that 150m invesment coutinho who came as a proven world class player isnt guy for this job, while ajax prospect who play in nederland legaue is that guy


Maybe problem with coutinho struggle is due to coach, slow possession football doesnt suit him, look at paco alcacer, he was rated here same as munir, now look him at dortmund, which is on top of the cl group and on the top of the table in bundes with him as a main striker, that should tell you something, slow possession football doesnt suit nobody


Edit: i was on the train against dembele, im still on it, i cant ignore price that he came with and fact that he is still a talent with glimpse of world class player, but im sure in faster gameplay he would thrive as a fast and skillfull player

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i literally just said we don't need FDJ

Laplacian said:

i literally just said we don't need FDJ

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Ah, ok, still it seemed like you would get rid of coutinho, based on 1 season under valverde

Really interested to see how will he perform today vs Bayern.