[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], fair enough, but Rijkaard's best midfield when all were available had both Deco, and Xavi in it. Neither was muscular, tall or anything you describe there.
I know that.
Even though, a question remains whether Rijkaard would have played with Xavi-Deco in 2006 if Xavi would have been fit or would he tried something else?
Remember, in 2005 against Mou's Chelsea, we had a lot of injuries and we played:
RB Belletti (attacking RB)
pivot Gerard Lopez (Edmilson and Motta injured)
CMs Xavi and Deco
RW Iniesta (lol)
So, in that match we had 4 Barca's DNA midfielders together on a field in 433 formation (Gerard, Xavi, Deco, Iniesta). In theory, we should have dominated the match like crazy, right?
But as I have posted that match a lot of times (that night was mine personal the saddest moment as Barca's fan because I thought that we can finally win a CL after 13 years of mysery, yet we lost in the same way as always: too naive, too attacking, too light on muscles, horrible in defending corners), we were eaten alive in that match.
The match looked like classical Barca's matches: we have the ball around their box. We are passing it around and trying some things, but we can't break their bus.
Yet, every time when we lose the ball, they would have deadly 2:2 or 3:3 counters.
Whenever we had the ball, it looked as if there is NO WAY that we will ever score or break their bus, unless if Ronaldinho pulls some out of this world magic.
Yet, whenever Chelsea got the ball, I was on a verge of a heart attack, because their every single counter smelled like an extreme danger.
Not to mention corners. Whenever they had a corner, I thought: this is it. We are dead, a goal is incoming.
I don't want to give lessons to younger fans here, but I have said a lot of times, I am having a deja vu while watching Barca getting knocked out in CL 1/4s every season.
Matches against Roma 2018, Juve 2017, Psg 2017, Atletico 2014 and 2016, Bayern 2013 etc are imo like watching exactly the same matches from late 90s against Bayern or Milan, or matches against Valencia in 2000, Juve 2003, Chelsea 2005 etc
The same how we have been toothless against AM in 2014 and 2016, we played more or less the same for the last 25 years.
Or, the same how we have been outrun against Roma or Psg away, we have been outrun by majority of physical teams 20 years ago.
I won't even mention corners. I am watching us conceding the same goal over and over for 20 years.
So, anyway, we were eaten alive by Chelsea.
And the next season, Rijkaard dropped RB Belletti from CL matches and played with Oleguer (that is something like playing Mathieu, Vermaelen or Lenglet as a fullback today) to get: a better defense, to get less exposed at counters due to fullbacks venturing too much into attack and then we are dead when we lose the ball, plus to get some height while defending corners, since Oleguer was 187cm tall.
So, even this Belletti-Oleguer change is a prove that Rijkaard changed his ideas in 2006 and figured out that "classical, naive Barca's" style is not the way to win a CL against pragmatic teams.
Regarding Xavi vs Bommel, we will never know whether Rijkaard would have 442 or 433 with Xavi or with Bommel if everyone were fit.
Some will get offended, but look at this pattern:
2005: lost to Chelsea with: Gerard, Xavi, Deco, Iniesta, 4 Barca's DNA midfielders.
2006: won a CL with Edmilson, Motta (Van Bommel), Deco midfield. 3 thugs/physical guys and only 1 Barca's DNA player. Iniesta was usually used as a sub when we needed to turn the match around.
Even in a final, Rijkaard's pick were Edmilson, Van Bommel, Deco, with Iniesta on the bench. And Xavi returned from the injury.
But look at this (ok, there were more factors, but still): in a summer of 2006, we sold Van Bommel to Bayern because he wanted to play more and we had a young Iniesta.
So, we lost a starter-physical-thug Van Bommel who was a part of a physical midfield which won a CL after 14 years of losing with BArca's DNA type of midfielders.
Also, we lost Larsson, who was also offering BOTH scoring with feet and an option to score with headers, and we got young Messi.
Then, in 2007, we faced Liverpool in 1/8 of a CL, without CM Van Bommel and CF Larsson, and Rijkaard returned back to Barca's roots with playing way lighter and more technical team which lacked:
1. physique
2. which was unable to score headers
Our lineup was: Zambrotta, Marquez, Puyol, Belletti - Motta, Xavi, Deco - Ronaldinho, Saviola, Messi
Now, I know, there are 100s of factors, but look at some basics which I am repeating all the time:
Chelsea 2005:
4 light midfielders, 0 thug midfielders
Attacking RB Belletti, prone to counters
No Oleguer as a RB, prone to counters and weaker against crosses and corners.
We LOST.
2006:
Rijkaard played with 2 thugs in midfield and only 1 light guy.
He dropped too attacking RB Belletti for a CB Oleguer. We weren't prone to counters and we got more strength in the air while defending.
We had 2 players in attack who can score with feet and HEAD: Etoo and Larsson (and Ronaldinho somewhat).
What happened? We WON a CL after we moved away from our basics which are usually not working in a CL.
2007:
We sold CM Van Bommel and CF Rijkaard to play young light Messi and young light Iniesta.
We returned to Xavi-Deco dou.
We returned to attacking RB Belletti, we were prone to counters and weak against crosses, so a good old too attacking, light Barca, extremely weak against counters and crosses, and yet sterile in attack since we can score only through the ground with these type of players.
What happened? Defeat against Liverpool again.
2008: a classical Barca:
Midfield: Toure, Xavi, Deco and Iniesta as a winger. 4 Barca's DNA players plus Messi.
Result=a defeat again, without a scored goal.
Again not too many different weapons in attack and we were weak against counters and crosses.
We lost again.
I know, people will now reply: But, but, but, IT WORKED during Pep!
Well, I am looking at it in this way:
1993 to 2005: we played Barca's way in a CL=lost every single time
2006: Rijkaard move away to a more physical/cautious approach=we won a CL
2007-2008: Rijkaard returned to Barca's classical way=we lost again
2009-2012: Pep was winning. But, WHAT IF we were winning ONLY because of prime Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busi. What if this style was still meh for a CL, but these aliens turned our not so good style into a winning one with their magic?
2013: Xavi got old, Barca's started to suffer. Messi was winning matches on his own less than before.
2013-2018: Barca losing every time, once when Messi, Xavi, Iniesta were not on their prime anymore. And every season, we were losing in EXACTLY the same fashion as in 1993-2008.
The only exception is 2015, when we, AGAIN moved AWAY from our classical style. We had a good defense and we played on counters.
So, there are 2 options:
1. Pep's style is awesome and we should follow it in a CL till forever
2. or Barca's classical style and Pep's style is usually not good enough and too naive for a CL. But it worked for a short time when we had the best team ever. Aka, without a best team ever, that style will extremely rarely produce trophies in a CL.
I am leaning towards the theory NO2.
Now, for the end, regarding my Deja Vu feeling while watching Barca against Atletico in 2014, 2016, Psg, Juve 2017, Roma 2018, now guys, take a look at these highlights and try to find some patters:
Chelsea 2005
Liverpool 2007
Man Utd 2008:
1. all 3 times we played with Barca's DNA midfield. We lost in every year
2. all 3 times we had an attack which can score only through the ground, so we had problems to break the opponenent's bus
3. we struggled on counters EVERY single time
4. we struggled against corners and crosses every single time (Chelsea and Liverpool, every cross/corner is like 50% of a goal in our net)
Now, fast forward to Juve, Atletico, Roma:
1. we are still as equally as shit at defending corners
2. we are always having possession, can't break their bus, and yet we are prone to deadly counters
3. we can score only through the ground with our short players. In these videos from above: we are shooting with feet all the time and struggle. Yet, our opponents are creating chances for fun against us with crosses.
So, we have: only shortpassing. They have BOTH shortpassing and crosses options.
4. we usually play only slow possession game against parked buses. They are playing faster and they are catching us on counters all the time.
So, imo, Barca's CL exits in 1999, 2002, 2005 or 2014 are more or less the same.
This is why I am whining that our classical style is NOT too good for a CL.
And people will always pull: but but but Pep!
As said, I think that Pep's team was more like an anomaly since we were Goats, and not some rule. The rule is that we are always not good enough for a CL with our default style.
Now sit back, and guys, be honest, don't you see WAAAAY too many similarities with matches from 2005, 2007 and 2008 with recent exits against Atletico, Juve and Roma?
Chelsea 2005:
Liverpool 2007:
Look at this shit show defending at the 2nd goal against a cross, the same show like against Lyon.
Both goals conceded after crosses.
Basically, we concede all goals for 20 years only from counters or crosses.
Man Utd 2008:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDWzxKseibM
BBZ is right in that we need a different strategy in CL knockout games compared to LaLiga which is marathon.
The biggest issue is that the team had been overrun by an average of 10km by the opponents. This isn't as simplistic as having "big strong players" but rather working harder off the ball to deny space.
Look back at the matchday lineups over the years and more often than not we didnt go out because of wrong physical profile of players.
Against Inter in 2010 we had Keita-Busi-Xavi in midfield which wasnt any less physical than Inters. Puyol was in CB and Zlatan was upfront.
2013 Chelsea of Di Matteo (yikes!) beat us with us having a midfield quartet setup (doh! Pep done an Ernie).
2013 Bayern destroyed us and overrun us. This is the best example of the squad needing changes. But we also had the issues with Tito (rip).
2014 Atletico beat us when we also setup a midfield quartet away (doh! Tata done an Ernie. Oh, and Pinto was in goal.
2016. Atletico knocked us out with a late penalty in an even match.
2017 Juventus destroyed us. This was Juventus midfield: Pjanic-Khedir with Mandzukic-Dybala-Cuadrado infront. This was our more physical midfield: Iniesta-Masch-Rakitic
2018. Midfield quartet again (doh! Ernie done a Pep Tito de la Tata)
So you can see, apart from Bayern 2013, it wasnt really being less physical. It is more about setup, style, NOT running, no counter attacking. Oh and on 4 occasions playing a midfield possession quartet on top of all the previous reasons.
I would add to your posts and our defeats: in all defeats we had ONLY ONE WAY of attacking.
In 2006, we had: possession, counters and crosses.
In 2015: we had possession and counters.
In majority of other years, we mostly had only possession (and some counters here and there. Lately we don't have nor crosses nor counters).
When we have only possession as an attacking weapon, we are usually not good enough. Unless if you have prime Messi, which will never repeat again.
