21 - Frenkie de Jong

he's not an AM.. cant believe this coach... play him as pivot or double pivot and he will be one of the best in the world in that position.. this position isnt his.. where he has to make deep runs etc.. better use Vidal for that role..

Setien is another busi fetishist so I doubt we'll ever see the real Frenkie here until Oldsquets hangs his boots.

GOD, COUTINHO, DEMBELE, FDJ, burned money because of Social Media hype

Somehow the forum retards always manage to show up when we lose.

Andresito said:

Somehow the forum retards always manage to show up when we lose.

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What use is a forum if you can't vent your unfiltered bile to Make yourself feel better after a loss

Against Valencia, it looked like he was trying to hide when Barca had the ball. Busquets, Arthur and De Jong must never be on the field at the same time: none of them want to get into the box, none want to shoot. The team's only hope in attacking midfiled is Vidal.

He’s made a solid start to his Barca career, nothing spectacular. Valencia at the weekend was first really bad game.

The expectation for him is so high that people forget he’s young and becoming familiar with a new country, league, language and teammates.

There are aspects of his game he can improve drastically, his final pass ( although he did provide a nice assist in the Copa), and his decision making around the box is pretty poor.

We know he’s capable of much better as seen with Ajax and the Netherlands, I’m confident he will show that here too if given time.

BBZ8800 said:

People say that he needs to be a CDM...

Again, at Ajax he had Schone to cover for him.
At an NT team, he had De Roon and Wijnaldum.

He can't play a lone pivot away from home currently, because he is funky at defending, leaves his position often and often isn't aware of his opponents behind his back.

Then we have Arthur who is shit in defense and braindead in attack.

In short, you guys shouldn't dream too much about Frenkie-Arthur duo.
One will play, the other will get benched.
Frenkie will get a true physical pivot to cover for him.
And a 3rd guy will be someone who knows to create, shoot and dribble.

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A wise man once told me that the difference between versatile and tweener is how good you are.
If you are really good: you are versatile, if you average at those you are tweener.
Thing is, good is relative. You can be good in Villarreal/Sevilla/Atletico but not good enough for Barca.
This is a fault we have fallen for in past half decade (at least) thinking the likes of Arda/Denis as versatile players when they are just tweeners

Regarding FDJ, yes he has his defects but the good news he is already very good for a player of his age. Arguably the best U-24 midfielder right now. Depends on how he work on his game he can be a true versatile player who can be elite in 2 positions.
As for Arthur, talent is surely there but injuries and work ethic is questionable. Plenty of players have overcame those but more failed to do so.
The 2 players can be starters in few years, and I mean elite starters but it isn't set on stone. We should always remember that in June 2017 we thought Neymar and Umtiti are future of our attack, fast forward 16 month later one is done as elite CB and the other left us.
We should seriously be in the market for other additions. At least one good midfielder and ideally 2 in next 2 summers.

Riordon said:

I agree with you BBZ and said it for a long time. We need different types of midfielders, we need midfielders who are specialists in their roles.

Give me a ball-winning athlete DM who is good on the ball in the mold of Casemiro, Fabinho, Kante

Give me an advanced midfielder who can create and score and at the same time has stamina to run.

De Jong between those two.

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The thing is, specialists are rarely among elite (top 3 or 5 worldwide) in their positions. Players who are able to do many things make it easier for everyone.
When we had Iniesta being able to control tempo, pass, dribble, defend our midfield was on a higher level. When we had Xavi was was able to assist, defend (especially under Pep) and control the game he raised our midfield. Same with Deco (shooting, scoring, playmaking and defensive presence).
Specialists are good as part of the team, but they are the players to complement your core. If you have a trio attackers and elite (on offense at least) like Liverpool while having the top CB and top 2 GK they can afford to have a midfield of specialists for example or non-elite.
Right now we are trying to get those elite players to form the core of the team.

Khaled, Liverpool's front 3 didn't cost them 100m. per player. How much did Salah, Mane, Firmino cost? 100m all 3 probably. That's what we need to do. Get the players who are likely to make the next step. Hard working players without star status who will work hard to overcome the obstacles.

But, more importantly, get a manager who can help them develop, because it would be foolish to think Liverpool would be where they are now with an average Joe managing those players.

Gullit: “There are a lot of stories abut how amazing Frenkie is doing at Barça. I don’t think he is playing good. He passes left or right, but that’s all that happens. He has to play better. He’s like the ideal son-in-law, it’s all “fantastic”. But I haven’t seen it.”

Public opinion starting to turn on FDJ

It was a matter of time. When wheells roll downhill there is no mercy.

He was overrated for a while so this reaction is kind of expected.

Who is actually playing well? It's disaster season. Maybe past his prime Suarez was.

Messigician said:

Gullit: “There are a lot of stories abut how amazing Frenkie is doing at Barça. I don’t think he is playing good. He passes left or right, but that’s all that happens. He has to play better. He’s like the ideal son-in-law, it’s all “fantastic”. But I haven’t seen it.”

Public opinion starting to turn on FDJ

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We are currently in some weird era where for lots of fans=having possession, no matter how sterile it is=equals domination and a total football.

1. Dutch total football from 70s was not sterile
2. Cruijff's Barca Dream team in early 90s was not sterile
3. Pep's original ideas weren't sterile, but something turned into a wrong direction in his 4th season, especially later during Tito and with a Spanish NT team where they all turned to too much possession and control and not enough of directness.

And then we have a new gen of fans who think that Frenkie-Arthur midfield is: "just fine", they will control (they won't create and won't score), yet we will somehow score goals.

Frenkie alone is not a problem, but Busi-Frenkie-Arthur midfield is a huge problem.
Especially paired with sterile attackers, like Griezmann, or Rodrygo whom we want to buy.

Barca will need to make a shift towards basics and get rid of parts of possession and trade it for a faster, more direct, more vertical and more risky game.

** About Gullit, an interesting thing: Dutch NT team has always played the most beautiful football, but they were never good enough in terms of actual results and they would always lose in semis and finals.
Their dominant and eye pleasing game always lacked a final punch, actual goals in key moments.

The only moment EVER when Dutch managed to win a trophy (either World cup or Euros) was at Euros 1988 with Van Basten, Gullit and Rijkaard.
No wonder that Gullit is not a fan of a sterile possession football without a killer punch.
And also, no wonder that Rijkaard played a slightly more direct version of total football compared to Pep, Spanish NT team and a current era.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVZdz0fbdcg

What Setien is doing, seems to be another step in the wrong direction with even more possession and even less risks and a killer punch in the final third.
And also, how we are building our team (too many sterile, build-up based midfielders and attackers) is also not the right direction.

serghei said:

Khaled, Liverpool's front 3 didn't cost them 100m. per player. How much did Salah, Mane, Firmino cost? 100m all 3 probably. That's what we need to do. Get the players who are likely to make the next step. Hard working players without star status who will work hard to overcome the obstacles.

But, more importantly, get a manager who can help them develop, because it would be foolish to think Liverpool would be where they are now with an average Joe managing those players.

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This used to be the case with us, now we've turned to galactic type of signings, and we don't even do it well.

If Barto was president back then, we would've massively overplayed for Becks, instead of getting Ronaldinho.