21 - Frenkie de Jong

Andresito

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
serghei said:
I think box to box is what's needed. I'm not sold on Frenkie being an offensive weapon. His best skills are in deeper areas for me, and his offensive runs need to be not as often. So, I'd pair him with a player like Wijnaldum, who does the legwork on both ends and has the superior ability in attack. And replace Busi with Frenkie.

The advantage of getting someone like Wijnaldum is that you get a player who can play 2-3 positions equally well. He can play in the double pivot, in a 3, he can even play as a 10 in the Pedri and Messi positions. You can even use him wide in a 4-2-3-1 probably and would do a decent job. The only question mark is how much "legs" does he have left after several seasons with one of the most intense and demanding managers around.

Also, really quality DMs are harder to find than quality box to box players. I don't see a DM on the market that would be good enough for Barca.
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I think that'd limit Frenkie. He's not that good defensively. And for him to be a static DM will be hard since Frenkie thrives on moving all over the pitch. We've seen players like Busquets, Casemiro and Fabinho in successful midfield 3's work the best when they are limited and let the others handle the offense.

Frenkie shouldn't be the most offensive nor the most defensive player in a midfield 3, but rather inbetween. And Pedri clearly grabs the offensive role.

Gini would be a great signing for free. Not sure he'd work that well with Frenkie and Pedri though, at least not in the toughest of games.
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
JohnN said:
To be fair to koeman, he wanted Wijnaldum. He had a plan for this midfield, but Barto, as always, made sure it wouldn't come through.
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There is no chance Liverpool would have sold Wijnaldum last summer bar a huge bid and at 30 that is different from getting for free a year later.

I doubt Koeman ever wanted him last summer as would know it was a non starter.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Andresito said:
I think that'd limit Frenkie. He's not that good defensively. And for him to be a static DM will be hard since Frenkie thrives on moving all over the pitch. We've seen players like Busquets, Casemiro and Fabinho in successful midfield 3's work the best when they are limited and let the others handle the offense.

Frenkie shouldn't be the most offensive nor the most defensive player in a midfield 3, but rather inbetween. And Pedri clearly grabs the offensive role.

Gini would be a great signing for free. Not sure he'd work that well with Frenkie and Pedri though, at least not in the toughest of games.
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He doesn't have to be a static DM, which is why you need a box to box player who would be both comfortable at attacking and at defending. Wijnaldum fits this profile imo. He could communicate well with De Jong and give him the freedom he needs. At the same time, De Jong could also control the game more from deep (which he doesn't do enough with Busi on the field) and improve our transition from attack to defense in the first 5 seconds after we lose the ball (which is for me no1 systemic flaw of current Barca).

Currently, De Jong is often caught too advanced when the ball is lost, because he makes runs in the box too often, trying to press or provide passing options to either Busi or Messi who drop deep to command the build-up. Both Messi and Busi are terrible on transition, which is why a lot of counters end up putting our already shaky backline under pressure. Wijnaldum would be great at making some of those runs, freeing De Jong in a way. Busi is basically hopeless at providing any attacking threat, given that he has no speed. When Busi plays, I don't think De Jong can have his most complete games. He has to provide serious stuff in the attacking phase.

Let's see how much better De Jong's offensive output will be in the 2nd part of the season. He's got 1 goal and 1 assist in the last 2 games. If he starts bringing goals and assists, then you can make a case that you need a DM and make De Jong our primary box to box player (I consider Pedri as more AM, Iniesta-like). But I wouldn't bet on that being a good plan, because De Jong's shooting, his aerial game, his scoring instincts are not his strongest points. They are Wijnaldum's though, a man who scored multiple goals in CL semifinals.
 
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Messi983

Messi983

Senior Member
I like Frenkie in this more offensive role.

FDJ, Pedri and Wijnaldum could work in like 90% of the games so I'm all for bringing Gini despite his age but in big games I'd still prefer to have a midfield destroyer behind them. They all have immense work rate but are still not that great defensively.

Maybe we could use a 4-4-2 diamond like

---DM---
FDJ---Pedri
---Gini--

I know it's a narrow midfield but we have two attacking FBs who can provide width and both Pedri and Fati (assuming he'd be one of the forwards) could also move to the wings. Use Dembele to come off the bench against tired defenders.

Obviously this depend on who we'd get as a forward and if Messi stays. If we'd get a prolific striker like Haaland (very unlikely) and put him alongside Fati upfront it would be almost perfect.

If Messi stays then Wijnaldum could also be used in that shadow striker role like Vidal and Paulinho as he's more dangerous inside the box than our current midfielders when Messi would drop. He shouldn't come as deep to get the ball as he's doing now though because midfield should provide him enough balls to stay around 30m from the opponents goal at most. Which would be helpful with his physical decline as it would keep his legs fresher and also keep his concentration on a higher level. Surely he's lost a lot of killer instinct in front of the goal from his best years but I believe he'd score a lot more if he'd consistently stay closer to the goal.

Don't know who that DM could be and it's very unlikely we'll get him this year anyway. Our priority should be on a CB and a striker. But maybe we can get someone like Boubacar Kamara who can play both DM and CB. With him it would be easy to switch from 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 to 3-5-2 depending on the opponent and result without having to make too many personell changes in the lineup.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Messi983 said:
I like Frenkie in this more offensive role.

FDJ, Pedri and Wijnaldum could work in like 90% of the games so I'm all for bringing Gini despite his age but in big games I'd still prefer to have a midfield destroyer behind them. They all have immense work rate but are still not that great defensively.
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It's tricky because that destroyer would have to be skilled enough to initiate build-up and be confident to play under a lot of pressure on the ball. It's one of the hardest positions at Barcelona and not only at Barcelona but in most teams that want to dominate the game and to have a strong positional attack.
 
Andresito

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
Messi983 said:
I like Frenkie in this more offensive role.

FDJ, Pedri and Wijnaldum could work in like 90% of the games so I'm all for bringing Gini despite his age but in big games I'd still prefer to have a midfield destroyer behind them. They all have immense work rate but are still not that great defensively.

Maybe we could use a 4-4-2 diamond like

---DM---
FDJ---Pedri
---Gini--

I know it's a narrow midfield but we have two attacking FBs who can provide width and both Pedri and Fati (assuming he'd be one of the forwards) could also move to the wings. Use Dembele to come off the bench against tired defenders.

Obviously this depend on who we'd get as a forward and if Messi stays. If we'd get a prolific striker like Haaland (very unlikely) and put him alongside Fati upfront it would be almost perfect.

If Messi stays then Wijnaldum could also be used in that shadow striker role like Vidal and Paulinho as he's more dangerous inside the box than our current midfielders when Messi would drop. He shouldn't come as deep to get the ball as he's doing now though because midfield should provide him enough balls to stay around 30m from the opponents goal at most. Which would be helpful with his physical decline as it would keep his legs fresher and also keep his concentration on a higher level. Surely he's lost a lot of killer instinct in front of the goal from his best years but I believe he'd score a lot more if he'd consistently stay closer to the goal.

Don't know who that DM could be and it's very unlikely we'll get him this year anyway. Our priority should be on a CB and a striker. But maybe we can get someone like Boubacar Kamara who can play both DM and CB. With him it would be easy to switch from 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 to 3-5-2 depending on the opponent and result without having to make too many personell changes in the lineup.
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Hypothetically, Eric Garcia as DM? Could look at Marquinhos who successfully made that transition a while ago, although he's back at CB now.

Defensively should be more than good enough.
Despite having great ball playing skills, maybe they won't be enough at DM in a team like Barca. Will need time to adapt to a new position as well. Those are the only downsides I see.
 
George_Costanza

George_Costanza

Active member
xXKonan said:
Bild says FDJ is one of Bayern's targets for next season.
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tenor.gif
 
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