Lautaro Martinez

Yannik said:

Bayern got Kimmich, Coman, Gnabry, Suele, Goretzka and Davies for total less amount of 70m. Douglas Costa was 30m, but given that he was pretty fucking good for half a year and they were able to sell him for 46m when he dropped in form made the transfer quite a win for them.

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Yes, but the hype around Bayern's transferdecisions is waaay over the top.

First of all: They only get players on free transfers because they have league monopoly and is only deadsure bet of CL every year. You can't compare Barca to those circumstances. Give Dortmund or Schalke 5 league titles in a row and then look at Bayerns transferbusiness compared to Barcas.

1) If Barca don't sign a spanish talent in the league a given summer, maybe Real does. Bayern can wait a year for the contract to expire.

2) Any spanish youngster who wants league titles, CL every year and national team spot wants to go to either Real or Barca, not purely one of them. For Bayern they are the only ones, so they have more negotiation power.

3) They have made some bad sales as well. Kroos to RM for 25M - how bad is that? Vidal to us for 18M - we will get more for him now. Ballack for free to Chelsea - how disastrous transferhandling is that?

Point is: Yes, they do great transferbusiness, no denying that. But: Bayern also has better circumstances due to league monopoly than 90 % of topclubs. And their mistakes/flops are not looked upon that harsh, as they are in Real/Barca/Manchester United for example.

BarçaBarça said:

Yes, but the hype around Bayern's transferdecisions is waaay over the top.

First of all: They only get players on free transfers because they have league monopoly and is only deadsure bet of CL every year. You can't compare Barca to those circumstances. Give Dortmund or Schalke 5 league titles in a row and then look at Bayerns transferbusiness compared to Barcas.

1) If Barca don't sign a spanish talent in the league a given summer, maybe Real does. Bayern can wait a year for the contract to expire.

2) Any spanish youngster who wants league titles, CL every year and national team spot wants to go to either Real or Barca, not purely one of them. For Bayern they are the only ones, so they have more negotiation power.

3) They have made some bad sales as well. Kroos to RM for 25M - how bad is that? Vidal to us for 18M - we will get more for him now. Ballack for free to Chelsea - how disastrous transferhandling is that?

Point is: Yes, they do great transferbusiness, no denying that. But: Bayern also has better circumstances due to league monopoly than 90 % of topclubs. And their mistakes/flops are not looked upon that harsh, as they are in Real/Barca/Manchester United for example.

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I'd say the only "bad business" there was selling Kroos, which they are being criticized for constantly. They didn't want to sell him though, they just couldn't afford his wage demands then. Vidal wasn't an issue for them and Ballack left because he wanted to.

Bayern has a favourable position in the German Market, but the thing is also barely any top team abroad ever competes Bayern for the targets they pursue, so these players just weigh their options and go with the best offer they received. Who really had an interest in Kimmich, Suele or Gnabry abroad? They didn't care much about these players, so they were easy pickups. Bayern also wanted Werner, but since he is wanted by half of Europe aswell he will likely sign for someone else. If this were to happen more often, Bayern wouldn't have these players they have now. But most of the time noone cares for those players that Bayern wanted and 1-2 years later they realize these kids are actually worldclass.

With Barca I rarely see these types of great spots at cheap prices. It always just feels like an eternal hunt for the next 100m transfer.

Yannik said:

I'd say the only "bad business" there was selling Kroos, which they are being criticized for constantly. They didn't want to sell him though, they just couldn't afford his wage demands then. Vidal wasn't an issue for them and Ballack left because he wanted to.

Bayern has a favourable position in the German Market, but the thing is also barely any top team abroad ever competes Bayern for the targets they pursue, so these players just weigh their options and go with the best offer they received. Who really had an interest in Kimmich, Suele or Gnabry abroad? They didn't care much about these players, so they were easy pickups. Bayern also wanted Werner, but since he is wanted by half of Europe aswell he will likely sign for someone else. If this were to happen more often, Bayern wouldn't have these players they have now. But most of the time noone cares for those players that Bayern wanted and 1-2 years later they realize these kids are actually worldclass.

With Barca I rarely see these types of great spots at cheap prices. It always just feels like an eternal hunt for the next 100m transfer.

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Spot on. Bayern do very smart work following top players that fly under the radar. As soon as one of their targets becomes hyped up and starts being linked with other really big clubs, their chances of getting that player decrease dramatically. They almost never take part in auctions for big money signings like Barca, Madrid, PSG, or some EPL clubs do.

Yannik said:

I'd say the only "bad business" there was selling Kroos, which they are being criticized for constantly. They didn't want to sell him though, they just couldn't afford his wage demands then. Vidal wasn't an issue for them and Ballack left because he wanted to.

Bayern has a favourable position in the German Market, but the thing is also barely any top team abroad ever competes Bayern for the targets they pursue, so these players just weigh their options and go with the best offer they received. Who really had an interest in Kimmich, Suele or Gnabry abroad? They didn't care much about these players, so they were easy pickups. Bayern also wanted Werner, but since he is wanted by half of Europe aswell he will likely sign for someone else. If this were to happen more often, Bayern wouldn't have these players they have now. But most of the time noone cares for those players that Bayern wanted and 1-2 years later they realize these kids are actually worldclass.

With Barca I rarely see these types of great spots at cheap prices. It always just feels like an eternal hunt for the next 100m transfer.

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The last sentence is certainly true and there are possibly several reasons behind it: (1) The quality and effectiveness of Barca scouts (2) The quality, vision of our sporting director and the role he plays (does he have the authority to sign players he wants or does he have to always be mindful of what the board wants etc.) and (3) the vision of our board and (4) last but not least, we have become a victim of our past success brought by Messi and his fellow old guards to the point that some young players do not want to come join us immediately for fear of not having enough playing time, case in point was Dembele several years ago when he joined Dortmund.

As to Bayern, I think the majority of Bayern's past signings were from Bundesliga and only in the last couple of years they started looking elsewhere (Renato Sanches, Lucas Hernandez, Davies etc.). In Bundesliga Bayern enjoys an absolute monopoly on players and they have the biggest pull on German and Eastern European players, if Bayern shows a serious interest they would get those players 9.9 out of 10 times. Yes, they will face a stiffer competition abroad in the future as they expand their search of talent to other leagues and countries, however I'd imagine the bulk of Bayern's signings will still come from Bundesliga in the near future. In Germany/Bundesliga Bayern doesn't have to spend much at all to get the players they need, it remains to be seen how effective they will be getting players from other markets should they refuse to pay big money, if those players are being pursued by multiple clubs.

The only caveat in Bundesliga is that those players who joined Dortmund, German or not, will likely not be joining Bayern like they did before. Dortmund's business model is buying young talent for cheap and selling them for big profit so those Dortmund players will either go to La Liga or EPL instead of joining Bayern because (1) Bayern will not be paying the kind of money other clubs pay and (2) there will be increasingly more of a stigma preventing Dortmund players from easily joining Bayern in the future.

Barca do scout young players and identify but Barca being linked seems to spur likes of City an Real to offer more money and the club often backs soff.

Yan Couto, Rodrygo, Viniscius Jnr, Gabriel Jesus etc were all linked to Barca and those teams came in.

In recent years money been made from signing younger players like Mina and most likely Todibo who have been identified but not quite good enough for first team.

Pedri and Trincao look like very good finds as well.

MATS, Arthur, Umtiti etc not unknown but Barca in early to get them for good fees.

I think Barca are a bit guilty of wanting immediate success with Messi in team and paying big numbers as for first team players as opposed to taking the time likes of Bayern will. Also more pressure to do that in a league with Real/Atletico in it.

The board set up and elections doesnt help as it can lead to board being short sighted nearer end of term and trying to squeeze out last of what their squad has rather than rebuilding as wont see benefits of it.

Bayern with all these incredibly smart transfers and yet one champions league in last couple decades. Not as great as we think.

LABarcaFan said:

Yes, Ruiz is CM, but if you have watched Napoli's games, he is not playing advanced mid as before. T.Partey, Busy and FDJ are all DM's.

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I have and he almost never plays as the DM. He is a number 8 that can create and also help out a lot in defense. That being sad, I do not want a De Jong-Busquets-Ruiz midfield per se.
Someone more creative instead of Busquets with De Jong on the 6 and Ruiz on the 8 seems better.

It's getting ridiculous.

Ditch this deal and wait out another year for a striker.

Slevinn said:

I have and he almost never plays as the DM. He is a number 8 that can create and also help out a lot in defense. That being sad, I do not want a De Jong-Busquets-Ruiz midfield per se.
Someone more creative instead of Busquets with De Jong on the 6 and Ruiz on the 8 seems better.

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I suggest you to go on Youtube and type: Fabian Ruiz - defensive skills. I just watched several clips. This guy is a complete midfielder. When I say complete, I mean he can defend against stronger and faster opponents and take away the ball from them very cleanly. At the same time, he can play also as # 8 as you suggest, because of his technical skills, vision and passing. I can see us in 4-3-3 formation with FDJ as DM (#6), F.Ruiz as CM (#8) and Don Leo Messi as AM (#10). That will means two very creative midfields and finally Frenkie playing at his original position as a defensive midfield. A agree that Busquets has to sit on the bench, but that is very unlikely with Setien as a coach. He will use all old horses as a starters for the next season.

Rory said:

Bayern with all these incredibly smart transfers and yet one champions league in last couple decades. Not as great as we think.

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Possible winners this time. Liverpool are out and there aren't any other strong teams left besides City.

We do not need a striker atm and we certainly don't need another 100 million plus flop again. We have Suarez, Griezmann and Braithwaite. Use them.

We need a cb, rb and maybe a b2b midfielder. If we had cash I'd go for a Lb too but that ain't happening.

We all know that.

LABarcaFan said:

I suggest you to go on Youtube and type: Fabian Ruiz - defensive skills. I just watched several clips. This guy is a complete midfielder. When I say complete, I mean he can defend against stronger and faster opponents and take away the ball from them very cleanly. At the same time, he can play also as # 8 as you suggest, because of his technical skills, vision and passing. I can see us in 4-3-3 formation with FDJ as DM (#6), F.Ruiz as CM (#8) and Don Leo Messi as AM (#10). That will means two very creative midfields and finally Frenkie playing at his original position as a defensive midfield. A agree that Busquets has to sit on the bench, but that is very unlikely with Setien as a coach. He will use all old horses as a starters for the next season.

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I dont have to see clips, I saw enough games of him and I literally said he is strong in defense and that he can play as a DM.

Lautoro



MD trying to hype up his defensive contribution, lol.

His contribution on that side of it matters and having someone who can press well from front helps a lot.

Not that it makes him worth 110m but it is a positive side to him and something badly lacking in this Barca side.