Lautaro Martinez

L

LABarcaFan

New member
mc_lovin said:
You just disagree. No need to be a douchebag.



You have no clue, sorry - I really dont give a damn about your opinion. FACTS. Riordon has good points at least even if I disagree.
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I am providing you with FACTS. Just read them and try to understand.And some more facts for you.

Antoin Griezmann 120 m. transfer has shot Barcelona's overall debt up to 893,707 m. Loans from players and investments bring that figure down to 505 m. as a NET DEBT. Knowing this numbers, do you think we should do another mistake of over-paying for Lautaro, Neymar or whoever else you name at that price tag?
 
L

LABarcaFan

New member
mc_lovin said:
I was rude, sorry for that, but damn, I just reached my boiling point. You talk about two important facts, which are more like, well, opinion at best. Outlandish ones I might add. Messi CAM? Trincao a starter? Not to mention that you called me a racist a few pages earlier for saying South Americans are historically good fits for Barcelona xD

The other dude as well, Respekt_III, comes in here guns blazing and essentially calls everyone a moron whos not opposed to Martinez. Shit discussion culture. Fuck that.

But heck, my fault. I am done here, the back and forth with Riordon was a nice change of pace, but half this forum became a toxic wasteland.
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I am going to write second reply to your post, because with all honesty, I did not expect from you that kind of reaction.

First of all I have never called you a racist because of your though that South American players are good fit for Barcelona. That is just not true. Few pages above BBZ has posted magnificent material about the Argentinian players history in Barcelona. There is no need to go over it again.

About Messi playing as a attacking midfielder/play-maker, that is something that the whole world knows. It is not just my saying. Ever since Iniesta moved out from Barcelona, Leo took over his duty. He is no more considered as a RW. I have seen in this forum many different line-ups with some of them ( as yours ) placing him at the RW position. That is wrong. You can put him anywhere you want, because he is so versatile, but the reality is that the right flank will stay open. Now. I am not 100% sure if Trincao will be the starter there ( I wish he is ) because if Dembele is fit and ready to play, Setien may start him ahead of the Portuguese. That is fine.

"Back and forth with Riordan was a nice change of pace..."
I don't see how that could be a nice change of pace, when you were talking about Lautaro and he insisted that Sane would be a better choice? Money wise, non of this signings make sense for us, but as everyone else, you and Riordan have your opinion and preferences, which I respect and don't judge as other do.

To be honest, I am not that much against Martinez, as you may think. I would prefer him over Neymar, Griezmann, Coutinho and Dembele. That should tell you a lot. I am just against the idea of paying 111 m. for him with all our limited resources at the moment. With that money we can buy 2 solid pieces for our defense and midfield.
And to finish this, I would like to tell you that I always read your posts and find them quiet interesting. That is the reason I interrupted your conversation with Riordon, for which I would like to apologize. Lets just move on. No hard feelings at all from my side.
 
L

LABarcaFan

New member
vuji_31 said:
Griezmann ticks all of that maybe except right foot, even he scored nice goal for barca.

Proven player - check
WC winner - check
in top 3 for BallonD'oro - check

Look...I am not to much against Lautaro he is intersting player. But we spasahed so much money on players that didn't prove nothing.
He can be new Suarez or new Alexis.

I would rather get CB , RB (if semedo goes) and CM.
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That is all true.:2thumbsup::
 
M

mc_lovin

Senior Member
LABarcaFan said:
About Messi playing as a attacking midfielder/play-maker, that is something that the whole world knows. It is not just my saying. Ever since Iniesta moved out from Barcelona, Leo took over his duty. He is no more considered as a RW. I have seen in this forum many different line-ups with some of them ( as yours ) placing him at the RW position. That is wrong. You can put him anywhere you want, because he is so versatile, but the reality is that the right flank will stay open. Now. I am not 100% sure if Trincao will be the starter there ( I wish he is ) because if Dembele is fit and ready to play, Setien may start him ahead of the Portuguese. That is fine.


To be honest, I am not that much against Martinez, as you may think. I would prefer him over Neymar, Griezmann, Coutinho and Dembele. That should tell you a lot. I am just against the idea of paying 111 m. for him with all our limited resources at the moment. With that money we can buy 2 solid pieces for our defense and midfield.
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Thats the most reasonable post I ever saw you write, thanks for that.

On topic: you are obviously right about Messi, everyone knows hes nominally not a RW anymore, the question is where do you play him? There are 3 options (unless you have more ideas):
1) LW - Suarez - Messi
2) Double-Pivot with Messi as #10
3) LF - Messi -RF

Option #1 is what we do right now (which means sacrificing our right wing). Riordon (and others) advocate that, get a good LW and maybe play Griezmann in the center. Fine by me.

Option #2 requires 2 very good wingers (maybe Trincao is one, he looks very decent) and probably another defensive midfielder. I dont think thats a pragmatic approach, and personally I am not a big fan of the midfield structure in a 4-2-3-1. Its wing heavy, which is not how I see Barcelona.

Option #3 is my favourite, especially since I dont see Griezmann succeed here in another role. And I guess LFs/RFs are preferable to wingers in that formation. Messi is not at his best in the center anymore so ideally you want 2 mobile forwards, who target the CBs (instead of FBs). No idea if that can work out, but with Trincao, Fati, Dembele we could easily revert back to option #1. Thats my whole argument. Plus we need a CF sooner or later anyway.

Some people would rather get Haaland, which I cant argue against, but he seems to prefer the PL/Madrid (just a feeling). I have little doubt in Lautaro though, he was the only forward we played this season who looked dangerous throughout the game (and thats special for me). But goal stats are the easier scouting I guess.


As for improving our defense/midfield first: I wouldnt mind that, ideally we need a quality transfer in each line. But for me those issues are all roughly equal and the Lautaro option presents itself. Finding a clear cut impovement for midfield/defense is harder, and just as expensive. And yeah, I agree, 111ME for Lautaro would be excessive, but 60ME+players kind of sound reasonable. We will see whats possible this window though.
 
L

LABarcaFan

New member
mc_lovin said:
Thats the most reasonable post I ever saw you write, thanks for that.

On topic: you are obviously right about Messi, everyone knows hes nominally not a RW anymore, the question is where do you play him? There are 3 options (unless you have more ideas):
1) LW - Suarez - Messi
2) Double-Pivot with Messi as #10
3) LF - Messi -RF

Option #1 is what we do right now (which means sacrificing our right wing). Riordon (and others) advocate that, get a good LW and maybe play Griezmann in the center. Fine by me.

Option #2 requires 2 very good wingers (maybe Trincao is one, he looks very decent) and probably another defensive midfielder. I dont think thats a pragmatic approach, and personally I am not a big fan of the midfield structure in a 4-2-3-1. Its wing heavy, which is not how I see Barcelona.

Option #3 is my favourite, especially since I dont see Griezmann succeed here in another role. And I guess LFs/RFs are preferable to wingers in that formation. Messi is not at his best in the center anymore so ideally you want 2 mobile forwards, who target the CBs (instead of FBs). No idea if that can work out, but with Trincao, Fati, Dembele we could easily revert back to option #1. Thats my whole argument. Plus we need a CF sooner or later anyway.

Some people would rather get Haaland, which I cant argue against, but he seems to prefer the PL/Madrid (just a feeling). I have little doubt in Lautaro though, he was the only forward we played this season who looked dangerous throughout the game (and thats special for me). But goal stats are the easier scouting I guess.


As for improving our defense/midfield first: I wouldnt mind that, ideally we need a quality transfer in each line. But for me those issues are all roughly equal and the Lautaro option presents itself. Finding a clear cut impovement for midfield/defense is harder, and just as expensive. And yeah, I agree, 111ME for Lautaro would be excessive, but 60ME+players kind of sound reasonable. We will see whats possible this window though.
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Yes, there are people who prefer to see Haaland or Werner instead of Lautaro, but again, it is everyone's choice. Werner is almost half cheaper and proven scorer in the Bundesliga, but he is going to Liverpool. The Norwegian won't be that cheap. There are rumors lately that Borusia will offer him a new contract with 100 M. buy-out clause. So he wont be in our range. The advantage of signing Lautaro is that he is Leo's team-mate in the NT and they know each other style of play. The problem with him is called Massimo Morratti. Inter has already rejected a list of 6 Barca players offered as a part of the deal - Semedo, Firpo, Umtiti, Rakitic, Vidal and Alena. I don't think our board is going to pay the entire 111 M. amount in cash.

Now, about your proposed line-ups.

I agree that option #1 is what we play this season (Griezmann - Suarez - Messi) and as you agreed, that leaves a hole at our right flank. The question is how to fill that. If we somehow sign Lautaro, he is going to play out of position, as a LW, with Griez at the right and Suarez at the center. Leo will operate ( as he does all the time) just behind them as a fake # 9 or # 10, if you prefer it. That is his zone, same as Suarez as # 9. Honestly, I would like to see Luis on the bench and Lautaro as a starter, but everyone knows that won't happen.

Option # 2 is what will accommodate everyone. It is not necessary to be 4-2-3-1. It can be like our classic style , 4-3-3.

Lautaro - Suarez - Griezmann

Arthur - Messi - F. de Jong

Alba - Lenglet - Pique - Semedo

But, we wont have resources to address the other zones and basically it will be the same line-up as the last season with the addition of Martinez. How it will work nobody can say because all 3 of our midfielders are weak defensively and that will create an extra problems to the back-court.

Option # 3 (Messi as # 9) won't work. He does not like to play at the top of the attack and I have already explained that Suarez will start at # 9.
 
Kul_z

Kul_z

Senior Member
Respekt_III said:
Didn't know the criteria was so low for 100m players these days. Can't wait till he's on the wing unbalancing the team even more than it is now.

He scored 9 goals in 35 games last season and done a bit better this season and people are making it out like he's the best thing since sliced bread, because that's what you should be when you're throwing around that kind of money with the state of the team, our financial situation and the effects of the ongoing global pandemic.

Even if you want live live in a vacuum devoid of reality
we just have to look at the similar arguments that were made for coutinho and griezman and look how they turned out, also being "proven players" none the less.
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How in the name of god would lautaro disbalance more the state of this already unbalanced team if he starts in attacking trio of:

Lautaro Suarez Messi

Griez Lautaro Messi

Dembele/fati Lautaro Messi

Whoever the fuck from this team/lautaro/messi?

His workrate is far better then anyone we currently have except griezmann.
He is young, not injury prone as it seems, with pretty professional behaviour, not afraid of taking risks in his game and not intimidated by messi's presence.
Coutinho is the dying breed of this game, griezmann is already established player who almost won it all, or had a chance to win it all unlike lautaro who is out for blood.

All in all, in this forum you have people who are for and against, and its stupid to argue about personal preferences of who should we buy/develop.
I prefer lautaro more then werner or haaland for example, but that doesnt mean that i dont like the idea of having latter ones in our team and that we shouldnt go for them.

Financial matter is out of our hands so we have little or if any impact on clubs transfer targets.
 
Jcar

Jcar

Member
I think It would be good to buy a attacker that can drop to the midfield and create.
For example: Neymar. He is a left-winger, but we all know that he can do the CAM role. In those moments that Messi plays as a attacker, the other one drops to the midfield.

Its Just a Idea, It doesnt need to be Neymar. But It may be a bad Idea as Dybala said that its really hard playing with Messi (they stay in the same areas).
 
Kul_z

Kul_z

Senior Member
Jcar said:
I think It would be good to buy a attacker that can drop to the midfield and create.
For example: Neymar. He is a left-winger, but we all know that he can do the CAM role. In those moments that Messi plays as a attacker, the other one drops to the midfield.

Its Just a Idea, It doesnt need to be Neymar. But It may be a bad Idea as Dybala said that its really hard playing with Messi (they stay in the same areas).
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Havertz played yesterday as st, just saying
 
Messi983

Messi983

Senior Member
Kul_z said:
How in the name of god would lautaro disbalance more the state of this already unbalanced team if he starts in attacking trio of:
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Lautaro would unbalance us if we'd try to play with all "big 4" upfront which I could easily see happen. Messi and Suarez are unbenchable and it's hard to bench 100m signings as well so I think Setien will try to find a way to get all four of them on the pitch together and I don't have much hopes for this "experiment" to work well unless we would get a truly beastly DM (which we won't have money for after buying Lautaro) to pair with FDJ in a 4-2-3-1. Busi and/or Arthur would struggle to cover defensively for our two walking amigos upfront even with a help from Griez and Lautaro (on both wings I suppose, lol). This would be an even bigger problem than trying to get Messi, Suarez, Cou and Dembele in the same team which we didn't actually need to do much because of Dembele's injuries.

Lautaro wouldn't unbalance the team in a 4-3-3 in those combinations you've mentioned more than is already unbalanced now but he wouldn't help to balance the team either. We will always be an unbalanced team as long as Messi is here. He's still our RW on paper but we know he almost never plays there. Even bringing a true LW (not Neymar because he's also more of an AMC these days) wouldn't totally solve this problem.

Replacing Suarez with Lautaro (which in reality won't happen because he'll mostly share his minutes with Griezmann, and all of this on the cost of our youngsters Fati and Trincao) would help us defensively because we'd have two players upfront who can still run to compensate for Messi's walking around but offensively I don't think Lautaro and Griezmann together can provide us the goals an old Suarez can. Mainly because of the chemistry between Messi and Suarez. People often forget this very important part of the game. They think you can just throw new players into the team and they'll start to perform from day 1 which rarely happens. It would take years (and Messi's goodwill to actually develop a chemistry with that player which he hasn't shown so far with Griezmann, maybe it will be different with his countryman Lautaro) for Messi to develop anywhere close to a similar understanding with another striker and he'll probably left before that will happen.


Jcar said:
I think It would be good to buy a attacker that can drop to the midfield and create.
For example: Neymar. He is a left-winger, but we all know that he can do the CAM role. In those moments that Messi plays as a attacker, the other one drops to the midfield.

Its Just a Idea, It doesnt need to be Neymar. But It may be a bad Idea as Dybala said that its really hard playing with Messi (they stay in the same areas).
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We already have that player in Griezmann who is good at dropping back and in linkup play and has done well at the start of the season when Messi was injured but has struggled to do the same with Messi in the team. We need someone who would actually stay forward, occupy the defenders and run behind the defense and not another player going into Messi's way by dropping back too much.
 
Kul_z

Kul_z

Senior Member
Messi983 said:
Lautaro would unbalance us if we'd try to play with all "big 4" upfront which I could easily see happen. Messi and Suarez are unbenchable and it's hard to bench 100m signings as well so I think Setien will try to find a way to get all four of them on the pitch together and I don't have much hopes for this "experiment" to work well unless we would get a truly beastly DM (which we won't have money for after buying Lautaro) to pair with FDJ in a 4-2-3-1. Busi and/or Arthur would struggle to cover defensively for our two walking amigos upfront even with a help from Griez and Lautaro (on both wings I suppose, lol). This would be an even bigger problem than trying to get Messi, Suarez, Cou and Dembele in the same team which we didn't actually need to do much because of Dembele's injuries.

Lautaro wouldn't unbalance the team in a 4-3-3 in those combinations you've mentioned more than is already unbalanced now but he wouldn't help to balance the team either. We will always be an unbalanced team as long as Messi is here. He's still our RW on paper but we know he almost never plays there. Even bringing a true LW (not Neymar because he's also more of an AMC these days) wouldn't totally solve this problem.

Replacing Suarez with Lautaro (which in reality won't happen because he'll mostly share his minutes with Griezmann, and all of this on the cost of our youngsters Fati and Trincao) would help us defensively because we'd have two players upfront who can still run to compensate for Messi's walking around but offensively I don't think Lautaro and Griezmann together can provide us the goals an old Suarez can. Mainly because of the chemistry between Messi and Suarez. People often forget this very important part of the game. They think you can just throw new players into the team and they'll start to perform from day 1 which rarely happens. It would take years (and Messi's goodwill to actually develop a chemistry with that player which he hasn't shown so far with Griezmann, maybe it will be different with his countryman Lautaro) for Messi to develop anywhere close to a similar understanding with another striker and he'll probably left before that will happen.




We already have that player in Griezmann who is good at dropping back and in linkup play and has done well at the start of the season when Messi was injured but has struggled to do the same with Messi in the team. We need someone who would actually stay forward, occupy the defenders and run behind the defense and not another player going into Messi's way by dropping back too much.
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Suarez is 34 and if somehow we bring lautaro, and suarez still starts ahead of him then we deserve to sink like manutd or milan.

Our team is pretty stacked with forwards but we dont have a proper st besides suarez(34).

Our mf is pretty stacked but we dont have a proper cam and/or another cm, or like most of the forum see messi as the player in that role we lack one more mf of similar mould to de jong but i think thats a wrong approach on so many levels.

De jong de jong2
Trincao messi griez
Suarez

That line up screams of non posession, slow pace wannabe counter attacking football which we dont play and cant play, defense vulnerable.

De jong de jong2
Trincao messi dembele
Lautaro

Lineup full of if's, again no posession, counter attacking yes but defensive vulnerable as fuck.

Messi needs to stay at final third with ocassional droping back to create when we are against a bunker to discomfort enemy lines.

We need to minimize messi's output on our mf, with or without the ball and let him do his thing on wing or wherever he wants to be in final third.

My opinion is that with messi still around we need to play
442
433
343

And Lautaro as his companion in attack seems pretty decent, considering that we still have the best attacker in the world.
 
R

Rory

Senior Member
What's his mentality like? Not sure I've seen anyone comment on it yet. So many of our players have lacked hunger, desire and fight in recent years. Even if Lautaro is excellent in everything (which he isn't) I'd like a strong-headed person to be leading the line, I hope he has that.

Haaland might seem limited technically but he just seems to have this winning mentality, I watched some of his post match interviews, he doesn't give a fuck about being super nice to the media or anything, he knows he's there to play football and score goals. He doesn't care how the ball ends up in the net as long as it ends up there. Suarez has been one of barca's all time great number 9's and that's exactly how he's been these past 3-4 years, shoddy play but the ball ends up in the goal and we win (yes except for champions league away games where the whole team have been shite).
 
E

Eshez

New member
I like him more than Werner or Haaland potentially, but he has a long way to go. He's high workrate and capable with the ball, a bit of Suarez.
 
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