Arthur
- Thread starter Jair Ventura
- Start date
BusiTheKing
Senior Member
Immensely talented but I think the way he uses his body is holding him back. Something's up with his balance. It's not a bad thing that he goes down if he gets the foul, but I see him losing his balance too easily at times. Could be a biomechanical issue. He looks sorta composed, but for a short guy that isn't too skinny either, it takes too little to throw him off.
I don't like how he runs either. It doesn't look natural and I think he could be faster and much more energy efficient if he had experts look at potential muscle imbalances in his movement patterns. A lot of athletes cultivate bad habits in their running from trying to unconsciously spare previously injured muscles. Could be part of the explanation as to why he gets tired so easily.
I don't like how he runs either. It doesn't look natural and I think he could be faster and much more energy efficient if he had experts look at potential muscle imbalances in his movement patterns. A lot of athletes cultivate bad habits in their running from trying to unconsciously spare previously injured muscles. Could be part of the explanation as to why he gets tired so easily.
malvolio
Senior Member
I may be wrong, but as far as I can remember our golden trio of Busi-Xavi-Iniesta weren't so good at the same age as these 3. OK, puig is still an unknown but he is showing technical ability and courage beyond his years.
If these 3 fullfill their potential and gel together we might witness something really special.
FCB1987
Banned
[mention=16942]bbz8800[/mention]
Arizona Scott
New member
Kinda the opposite of what I think, I think his balance and low center of gravity is one of his strengths and he uses it well. I assume he can still probably get a little stronger, only 22 and 1st year with the big boys on the pitch but I like the signs.
I could more see this. I would also add maybe he gets tired because he works his butt off compared to say Busi and Rakitic. There not many guys like a Xavi or Kante or Modric that can move often, intensely and quickly for 90 minutes. Vidal can't do either, maybe in his younger days.
I'm sorry one player doesn't belong with the others. Two have shown great things all year against top world comp and are futures for the club as it plans the next 8 years or so, one is a very good prospect in the Segunda who we hope makes it but odds on (better 50/50) will never make Barca-La Liga quality.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Hmm, not even close.
Let's take the age
Xavi: 57 NT matches for youth NT teams
By the age of 22, he played for Spanish team on Olympic games and he was a part of a team at a World cup 2002, appeared in 3 out of 5 matches.
By the age of 22, he played 152 matches for Barcelona's senior team and played 41 matches in a Champions league.
By the age of 23, played almost 200 matches for Barca, and 55 Champions league matches.
A huge talent, a huge actual experience in a club, Champions league.
And recognized by NT coaches.
Iniesta:
Played 45 matches for Spanish youth NT teams.
Played 121 matches for Barca till the age of 22. And 25 Champions league matches.
Played 178 matches for Barca till the age of 23. And 33 Champions league matches.
He was a captain and a best player of youth Spanish NT teams which were winning trophies at youth World cups and Euros in that time.
Debuted for Spanish senior NT team aged 22 and was called for a World cup 2006, aged 22 and 1 Month.
Busquets:
By the age of 22, played 93 matches for Barca. And 19 Champions league matches.
By the age of 23, played 139 matches for Barca. And 31 Champions league matches. Won 2 CLs as a starter by then.
He played only 3 youth NT matches, unlike Xavi and Iniesta.
But was recognized immediately by senior coaches and started to play for senior Spanish NT team and debuted aged 20 years and 5 Months.
He played every single game as a starter for World cup Champions Spain at a World cup 2010, aged 22.
Now, I will sound as a bad guy, but how on Earth can these 3 and their actual achievements, potential and experience be compared to Frenkie, Arthur and especially Puig?
Frenkie:
14 youth NT matches
Debuted for NT team aged 18.
By the age of 22, played 80 senior matches in his career. 18 in Europe.
Arthur:
7 matches for youth NT teams.
By the age of 23, 109 senior matches. 23 international club matches.
Debuted aged 22 for a senior NT team.
Now, the most interesting part, Puig:
Age 20:
Matches for Barca: 2
Matches for youth NT teams: 0
Matches for a senior NT team: 0
Champions league matches: 0
Senior experience: 2 matches
I am not saying that the rule which I will write is 100% correct, but it usually has extremely high level of accuracy:
1. if too many coaches in a row don't play a certain player, even though he looks like a good player (to fans)=there is probably a very strong reason for that (in his actual abilities and an impact on a field)
2. the same, if too many coaches in a row play a certain player, even though he looks like an average player (to fans)=there is probably a very strong reason for that (in his actual abilities and an impact on a field)
3. regarding youth and senior teams, there are some players like Busquets who didn't play in youth NT teams because he didn't even play for Barca and he was behind a radar for scouts.
But as soon as he came to Barca, he started to play for BOTH youth NT teams and immediately for SENIOR Nt team.
Now, for example, regarding Puig, I don't understand how fans here are so easily neglecting a fact:
1. that he plays for Barca youth teams for teams and ALL Spanish youth and senior coaches know about him
2. yet, he isn't called by EV too much to a senior team
3. he isn't called by any youth NT coach to their teams
4. and of course, he isn't called to a senior NT team
As always, there are two options:
1. ALL Spanish NT coaches from youth and senior teams (plus EV) are very stupid and doesn't recognize his talent
2. or, he is a good player, but insanely overrated by our forum compared to an opinion of staff and coaches who are scouting and following players all their lives.
Cule4Life will probably reply with: EV played Gomes and that is a proof that coaches are stupid, aka, a proof that all coaches are wrong about Riqui and he is actually a talent of Xavi-Iniesta-Busi level.
So, in short:
1. Xavi played for Barca since the age of 18 as a starter. And was recognized by BOTH Barca's coaches, Spanish youth NT coaches, Spanish senior NT coaches.
2. Iniesta played for Barca since the age of 18-19. And was recognized by BOTH Barca's coaches, Spanish youth NT coaches (the best player and a captain), and senior NT coaches.
3. Busi was a late bloomer, but since the age 20 exploded and was recognized right away at all 3 levels.
Xavi alone had 57 matches for Spanish youth NT teams.
Iniesta alone had 45 matches for Spanish NT teams.
De Jong, Arthur and Puig combined have 14+7+0=21 youth NT matches.
Imo, only Frenkie can be compared to Xavi-Iniesta-Busi.
Puig is a huge unknown, without any senior experience and just a probably another flavor of a season, product of hope (Pedro) and hype machine by our fans.
Arthur, a nice player, but miles behind Xavi and Iniesta.
For example, a young 22 years old Iniesta mad more forward, risky, direct (and fast, without dwelling on a ball) passes in 30 minutes against Arsenal in a CL final of 2006, than Arthur can do in a whole season for Barca:
Or, 23 and a half years old Xavi on an NT level against England.
So, for everyone who think that current guys like Arthur, Alena, Puig and similar could be close to Xavi, or that Xavi was average and not so good in early days, maybe it is time to remember his impact aged 23 and compare it with an impact, pace, forward passes and accuracy of current guys.
I don't want to be a good guy, but we need some reality and cool heads also:
Again, more forward passes than guys will make in 3-4 seasons here.
And dwelling on the ball, passes, speed of passes (it seems like the ball is moving faster and with a more pace) is on a different level.
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Really dont like to just look at appearances. Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets had a lot more experience, but Arthur winning a Copa Libertadores is a massive achievement. Winning it at ~21 as the top player is something special (just as Neymar did). Frenkie played roughly half the matches Xavi/Iniesta did, but had the most impressive performance (vs Juventus home) in my opionion. Talent wise I truly believe Arthur and Frenkie are as close as it gets to players like Xavi/Iniesta. Though that doesnt mean they will get there. Appearance numbers are very dependent on circumstances as well.
Regarding offensive output: just posting match compilations is a terrible way of comparing:
a) the uploaded matches are probably their best and should be compared to Arthurs best performances (Sevilla/Tottenham/Madrid?)
b) Teams defend way deeper today.
c) We play less offensive football (not to say Valverde is shit etc etc. Hes not, but we dont play "hurrah"/"box to box" football anymore)
To Puig: I agree. He has a long way to go. But he looks very good on the ball, thats why people have hope. No need to disregard him yet, but no need to hype him too much as well. And he truly is one of your "lightweight" players (along with Alena). In contrast to Arthur who has a lot of strength and grit (thats where your physical players theory fails).
Regarding offensive output: just posting match compilations is a terrible way of comparing:
a) the uploaded matches are probably their best and should be compared to Arthurs best performances (Sevilla/Tottenham/Madrid?)
b) Teams defend way deeper today.
c) We play less offensive football (not to say Valverde is shit etc etc. Hes not, but we dont play "hurrah"/"box to box" football anymore)
To Puig: I agree. He has a long way to go. But he looks very good on the ball, thats why people have hope. No need to disregard him yet, but no need to hype him too much as well. And he truly is one of your "lightweight" players (along with Alena). In contrast to Arthur who has a lot of strength and grit (thats where your physical players theory fails).
Arizona Scott
New member
What I object to is the idea Puig can be counted on in our future squad, or in any way should affect club planning. That is not "disregard", disregard would be if we solid him for a pittance. We instead have him under contract and we will see, if he becomes a squad player it is a bonus but certainly not expected or likely. He is a prospect at no where near the level of top level performances at club or county as Arthur or De Jong, who are no where near the level of Xavi and Iniesta. Projecting any young player to be the next Xavi or Iniesta is setting the player up to fail and you to be disappointed. It is about as crazy and infinite odds as spotting "the next Messi". Because not only do they need to show the same signs at a young age, but they have to keep getting better at each year until like 26. There is a reason you only see one like them every couple decades.
serghei
Senior Member
Good comment. But Alena is not lightweight.
tacticvarium
New member
Aleñá is far from a small, lightweight player
It is also important to remember that Xavi won the La Liga Breakthrough Player of the Year in 1999.
Him and Iniesta are unique, special like Messi.
It is absurd to even compare these guys to Arthur, Frenkie etc.
The overhype surrounding Puig in fact only exists within Barça which is very similar to how Samper was rated back then.
That is the reason why he is lacking NT minutes.
It is also important to remember that Xavi won the La Liga Breakthrough Player of the Year in 1999.
Him and Iniesta are unique, special like Messi.
It is absurd to even compare these guys to Arthur, Frenkie etc.
The overhype surrounding Puig in fact only exists within Barça which is very similar to how Samper was rated back then.
That is the reason why he is lacking NT minutes.
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that's right. infact watch them against Madrid Galacticos teams and they were pretty shit.
playeres like guti , zidane running rings round them.
but footballs moved on since then, therefore whether your young player or not you gotta be able to do it right from the start because the competition is even more competitive and player skill levels are improving all the time.
Look at the premiership/ english players to testify this claim.
soul24rage
Senior Member
I think it is unfair to compare the likes of Arthur and De Jong (and any potential midfielders) to Xavi and Iniesta. Those Spanish midfielders are really one of a kind and in the top 3 of all time in their respective positions imo. If the likes of Arthur and De Jong get anything close to what Xavi and Iniesta achieved in terms of trophies and impact to the team, then I think their transfers are a huge success.
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