Arthur

Coutinho-Busi-Arthur. Let’s see it

The thing that I noticed in the girona game was his lack of movement to find space like xavi used to constantly do. There was a few times semedo was looking for someone to pass the ball to and he just stood beside his marker instead of moving to the space. Maybe he was doing it more often than not but I just noticed the few times he didn't. Anyway he hasn't had enough minutes to be judged properly yet and he has done a few good things already

Co0ter said:

Half these people complaining about Arthur would of said Xavi was trash at the same age. People forget Xavi only became truly a big name in Europe once Pep took over, Messi came of age and was well into his 20s.

The way Arthur receives and protects the ball under pressure while also keeping his head up... and moving to space without the ball is already 10x better than Gomes, Turan and Denis Suarez combined. He clearly looks way more comfortable than those ever did. Comparing him to Gomes only reflects how truly out of depth some of the fans on this forum really are.

Is Arthur going to be world class? Is he going to be as good as Xavi? We dont know. He's barely played. There is no way to tell. All we know is that he has a lot of potential, that is clear, while potential was never clear with Gomes, Denis or with Turan once he started playing for us.

Click to expand...

As much as I agree with you when you say that people tend to under-rate youngsters and stuff, but come one let's not twist the facts - Xavi was a big name even before Pep arrived. He was one of the core members of Rjikaard's team, won La Liga player of the year and was voted MVP of the Euro 2008!

Having that said, I completely agree with the rest of the post

Aryagorn said:

As much as I agree with you when you say that people tend to under-rate youngsters and stuff, but come one let's not twist the facts - Xavi was a big name even before Pep arrived. He was one of the core members of Rjikaard's team, won La Liga player of the year and was voted MVP of the Euro 2008!

Having that said, I completely agree with the rest of the post

Click to expand...

Regarding Xavi, yes.
A lot of posters are now writing as if Xavi was some no name or a squad player before player.
By the age of 21, he already had 100 senior appearances for Barca.
Aged 23, he already had 200 appearances.
Aged 25, he already had 300 appearances.
When he was aged 22-23, he already had 55 (lol) Champions league appearances on his back.

Aged 24, he was named a vice captain, and in 2004-05 when we won a a first La Liga since 1999, he was named La Liga's player of a year.
An interesting fact, in 2004-05, other players who played in La liga were:
Ronaldinho, Etoo, Deco, Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo R9, Beckham, Raul, Guti.

Now, you have to wonder, if Xavi (who wasn't THAT good before Pep, according to this forum) won the best player award:
1. does that mean that Ronaldinho, Deco, Zidane, Figo and others were meh?
2. or Xavi was a world class, insane player even back then?

Some interesting stats:
Rijkaard's 1st season, 2003/04, the most used players:
Xavi 49 matches
Cocu 48
Ronaldinho 45
Saviola 45
Van Bronckhorst 43
Puyol 38
Marquez 31
Lucho 30

2004/05:
Xavi 45
Etoo 45
Puyol 45
Ronaldinho 42
Deco 42
Marquez 41
Van Bronckhorst 38
Guily 36

So, Xavi was used all the time, even from 2000'.
And already during Rijkaard (aged 23 in 2003), he became a key piece of our midfield and a player who was used in almost EVERY SINGLE match.
All players were rested and rotated, and Xavi was almost never on the bench.

As written above, he was named the player of a year in La liga in 2005, and was our best midfielder even when we had Deco.
In December of 2005', Xavi suffered a cruciate knee ligament injury on a training and was out for 6-7 Months.
He didn't play for majority of 2006, and after that he needed some time to get back to his previous, world class level.
In those years, Rijkaard's Barca entered into a dark phase due to Ronaldinho's partying, Deco's divorce, Xavi's injury and in general, a team just lost motivation.
In 2007 and 2008, we had that famous reports how Xavi was considering leaving the club since they didn't value him and a good old revisionism kicked in on this forum and now a lot of people are believing in a story how Xavi was actually meh before Pep due to that episode from 2008 when he considered leaving.

Before Pep, Xavi was something like Kross or Modric today (ok, not like Modric since Modric is almost a Ballon D Or now, but Modric from 2 years ago, when he wasn't winning awards).

If someone will use a Ballon D Or argument and why Xavi wasn't on those lists in top 20 players?
= well, those lists are biased towards attacker, and are turned towards NT success and a CL success.
Since Barca won only 1 CL in Xavi's early years from 1999-2008, and even in that season he was injured, he basically had only La liga results behind him.
Spain sucked before Tiki-Taka and Barca wasn't winning CLs.
This is why Xavi was not on top20-30 lists.

For example, Luka Modric, who is in Real in his 7the season, won the first Ballon D Or vote in 2016 (so, he won only 1 vote then, already aged 30), after 4 seasons at Real and 2 CLs titles on his back.
Modric only started to be recognized by Ballon D Or in 2017 and now in 2018 after a World cup.
Regarding Ballon D Or, in 2013, 2014, 2015, Modric was nowhere near Top 30 or top50 lists.
Do you guys think that he was a bad player in 2014 or 2015?
Of course not.

Well, Modric from Tottenham, or 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 was the same as Xavi pre Pep.
A world class player and a key midfielder of his team.
The only problem was that he wasn't globally recognized by Ballon D Or and similar awards due to a combination of: a lack of NT success and a lack of CL titles.

For the end, one more time, Xavi aged 24 on an NT level vs England:

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] What's your ideal midfield trio based on the current squad ? you seem to be contradicting yourself on every other thread, you've been saying the midfield is slow with Rakitic and Busi yet don't want to drop any of them and willing to give chance to Arthur, everytime he gets play time you come here posting he's meh, then team get outpaced by a top team and you write long texts about how team is old, unmotivated, slow and etc.
Yeah he's not Modric but this is the best option we've got here, you gotta adapt to the situation.

BBZ8800 said:

An interesting fact, in 2004-05, other players who played in La liga were:
Ronaldinho, Etoo, Deco, Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo R9, Beckham, Raul, Guti.

Click to expand...

No he was only La Liga Spanish Player of the Year - So, of that list, he only finished ahead of Raul & Guti.

Still, he was never a no body and didn't need Pep to make him a star

Peps influence on Xavi and Iniesta is kinda overrated, seeing as both dominated on the world stage(Euros) before Pep had even started with his job.

Morten said:

Peps influence on Xavi and Iniesta is kinda overrated, seeing as both dominated on the world stage(Euros) before Pep had even started with his job.

Click to expand...

Absolutely not. They were great players before Pep came, but during Pep they became all time greats in their positions. What they did between 2009 and 2011 is unmatched. Basically made every team concede they had no chance to take the ball off them.

serghei said:

Absolutely not. They were great players before Pep came, but during Pep they became all time greats in their positions. What they did between 2009 and 2011 is unmatched. Basically made every team concede they had no chance to take the ball off them.

Click to expand...

So, nothing different then what they did in the Euros then, they just continued their form.

what xavi did in 2008 euros was a master piece..

Morten said:

So, nothing different then what they did in the Euros then, they just continued their form.

Click to expand...

At least a level higher.

Backpass merchant cost us the game today. Oh wait that was Rakitic.

Morten said:

So, nothing different then what they did in the Euros then, they just continued their form.

Click to expand...

Not really. They were good, but on the same level were Senna, Xabi and to lesser extent Cazorla/Fabregas. They both were constantly substituted in 50/60th minute by Aragones and not at the stage, where Spain had already secured the win. Would anyone do something like that with legends? They both had great final though and i think that was sort of a breakthrough to world wide fame. Right after that Pep took over Barca and we know the rest.
So yeah, well respected players already, but no where the GOAT status. Hindsight has a lot of sway on how we see history.

Gnidrologist said:

Not really. They were good, but on the same level were Senna, Xabi and to lesser extent Cazorla/Fabregas. They both were constantly substituted in 50/60th minute by Aragones and not at the stage, where Spain had already secured the win. Would anyone do something like that with legends? They both had great final though and i think that was sort of a breakthrough to world wide fame. Right after that Pep took over Barca and we know the rest.
So yeah, well respected players already, but no where the GOAT status. Hindsight has a lot of sway on how we see history.

Click to expand...

Iniesta wasn't getting the Goat status at the age of 23, but he has developed massively in every season he had under Rijkaard and already reached a super star level but wasn't recognized outside of Barca fans due to underwhelming seasons.
Xavi was on the verge of that GOAT status after the Euros, and even before it every coach has talked about how he would love to have him. He didn't have the wins to show for it before the Euros as even when we won the CL he was injured.
Pep has played a perfect set up for both "(along side Messi) but on individual level I am not sure he developed them that much tbh

I don't say he developed them, but his system was perfect for them to show their potential fully.
Wonder how'd they look under Valverde..