Arthur

KingLeo10 said:

[youtube]JPW8KyXwWmk[/youtube]

look at the movement of MSN here. I agree with everthing [MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION] is saying. you give even half of this movement and busquets, arthur, rakitic, vidal and co. will look like proper midfielders, especially in transitions.

also why I'm not a fan of messi dropping deep these days, because unlike 2015 he can't beat players on the dribble on a whim. CR7 stopped being able to do this somewhere around 2015 but changed his game dramatically since then. not saying messi should be a poacher but if he wants to drop deeper, he should follow up with penetrating runs.

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SeloBarca said:

Although that is a counterattack goal. Doesnt say much about the attacking in general.
Were never a fan of us relying so heavily on counters as we did then
THIS is proper movement without the ball and how you position yourself to give you teammates passing options.
[youtube]ZO9n3wi2OQ8[/youtube]

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abiabi said:

Counterattack is life..

Spain and Barca from 2009-13 relied heavily on badly built defenses. normal zonal marking, two banks of four with no pressure

in essence, tiki taka only works in an environment with soft defense.. that shit barcelona pulled back then would never work today

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abiabi said:

Counterattack is life..

Spain and Barca from 2009-13 relied heavily on badly built defenses. normal zonal marking, two banks of four with no pressure

in essence, tiki taka only works in an environment with soft defense.. that shit barcelona pulled back then would never work today

Click to expand...

fergus90 said:

Defences were not soft, teams just began to figure out ways to nullify the style of play after a while. Our build-up play has slowed down dramatically since those periods too bar 14-15 up until March/April 15-16.

The drop in quality didn't help either, we had Messi,Xavi, Iniesta, Alves,Busquets,Eto'o and Pique plus players like Yaya Toure who wasn't a guaranteed starter but an exceptional player in his own right. Outside the core 11 the general quality dropped over time.

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BBZ8800 said:

The quality of midfielders in a Spanish NT didn't drop, and yet they are toothless after 2012', more or less the same as Barca.

Since it is about 2 teams with a quite similar style and philosophy, it is way more likely that something "changed" with our opponents and not only in our teams.

But, as always, it is a mix of factors:
1. Barca's midfield is weaker
2. Barca's players are older
3. Barca's and Spain's players are less motivated due to winning all titles
4. opponents learned ways how to defend better against our style

In a final 2011, Man Utd played 442 flat.
Without a defensive midfielder between two lines.
Their 2 central midfielders were 38 years old granny Giggs and 30 years old slow-ish Carrick.
And those 2 were supposed to cope against Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta plus Messi dropping deep.
Of course that we have Tiki-Taka'd them till death.

Today every single midtable La Liga team plays a stronger defense against us than Man Utd and Champions league teams in 2011.

Barca's style of play FORCED the opponents to change.
And the opponents learned, changed and evolved over time.
But Barca and Spain haven't evolved and they are trying to copy that style which was too powerful, but before the opponents have figured us out.

Even current Barca would kill Man Utd from 2011 with Giggs, Carrick and no defensive midfielder.
Even during Pep, the only 3 teams who tried to play a stronger, tighter, bus-parking defense, were Chelsea in 2009, Inter in 2010 and Chelsea in 2012, and they all caused us a lot of problems.
After 2012, more or less, every single club in the world started to play against us like Inter and Chelsea.
And we haven't evolved too much.
Plus, we even became weaker in technical quality.

Also, when people say that RM plays like us.
No way.
They evolved.
They have a strong killer central defensive midfielder.
They play way faster and more direct.
In attack, they can score with feet and head (at least while they had CR7).

Spanish NT team plays way more closer to Barca than Real Madrid.
And in a knockout champions league matches, it seems that Spain's and Barca's style from 2008-2012 is not working anymore.
NOT only because of Rakitic and weaker midfield.

Click to expand...

BBZ8800 said:

The quality of midfielders in a Spanish NT didn't drop, and yet they are toothless after 2012', more or less the same as Barca.

Since it is about 2 teams with a quite similar style and philosophy, it is way more likely that something "changed" with our opponents and not only in our teams.

But, as always, it is a mix of factors:
1. Barca's midfield is weaker
2. Barca's players are older
3. Barca's and Spain's players are less motivated due to winning all titles
4. opponents learned ways how to defend better against our style

In a final 2011, Man Utd played 442 flat.
Without a defensive midfielder between two lines.
Their 2 central midfielders were 38 years old granny Giggs and 30 years old slow-ish Carrick.
And those 2 were supposed to cope against Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta plus Messi dropping deep.
Of course that we have Tiki-Taka'd them till death.

Today every single midtable La Liga team plays a stronger defense against us than Man Utd and Champions league teams in 2011.

Barca's style of play FORCED the opponents to change.
And the opponents learned, changed and evolved over time.
But Barca and Spain haven't evolved and they are trying to copy that style which was too powerful, but before the opponents have figured us out.

Even current Barca would kill Man Utd from 2011 with Giggs, Carrick and no defensive midfielder.
Even during Pep, the only 3 teams who tried to play a stronger, tighter, bus-parking defense, were Chelsea in 2009, Inter in 2010 and Chelsea in 2012, and they all caused us a lot of problems.
After 2012, more or less, every single club in the world started to play against us like Inter and Chelsea.
And we haven't evolved too much.
Plus, we even became weaker in technical quality.

Also, when people say that RM plays like us.
No way.
They evolved.
They have a strong killer central defensive midfielder.
They play way faster and more direct.
In attack, they can score with feet and head (at least while they had CR7).

Spanish NT team plays way more closer to Barca than Real Madrid.
And in a knockout champions league matches, it seems that Spain's and Barca's style from 2008-2012 is not working anymore.
NOT only because of Rakitic and weaker midfield.

Click to expand...