Arthur

SeloBarca

SeloBarca

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
Regarding comments when people "don't understand" why is Arthur subbed off when we need to defend, maybe this will help:
Duels won:
Vidal 13
Rakitic 13
Busquets 8
Arthur 4


1. We are trying to keep the lead and Arthur's set of skills are not that needed anymore
2. He has the weakest stamina out of these 4 players
3. In 90% of matches, he has the weakest defensive numbers out of these 4 midfielders
Click to expand...

The stats are not correct.
Passing % can also be statpadded at the end of the game when everyone are tired and noone is chasing the ball.
At the end of first half, gameinformation popped up showing rakitic had around 65% passing succes.

1. Arthurs skills are needed, but it has been decided before game that Arthur will be subbed, no matter how well he plays. "Defending" the lead have never, and should never, be the Barcelona way.
2. The "weakest stamina" argument is exegerated. Rakitic walks around most of the times and looks exhausted most of the time. Arthur covers more ground, and even the commentators says so.
3. Yea..yesterday only proved once again that Arthur is also better defensivly, saving us a couple of times on the goalline.
 
malvolio

malvolio

Senior Member
people forget that this is his first full season playing in europe. and also the fact that he got some injuries along the way. i think he can be more than happy with his minutes this season. better to integrate him slowly when we can afford the luxury(vidal, rakitic, busquets are still at top level).
 
MagIX

MagIX

Senior Member
malvolio said:
people forget that this is his first full season playing in europe. and also the fact that he got some injuries along the way. i think he can be more than happy with his minutes this season. better to integrate him slowly when we can afford the luxury(vidal, rakitic, busquets are still at top level).
Click to expand...

I agree.
Aboslutely above my expectations, and he played even some match like a experienced BOSS :worthy:,despite, as you wrote, this is his first season.
Retio Price/Quality (like Lenglet) TOP.
 
A

Arizona Scott

New member
BBZ8800 said:
...Each of these midfielders have their strengths and weaknesses.
When EV is subbing off Arthur after 60 minutes, that is NOT because EV is a Retardo, but because:
1. We are trying to keep the lead and Arthur's set of skills are not that needed anymore
2. He has the weakest stamina out of these 4 players
3. In 90% of matches, he has the weakest defensive numbers out of these 4 midfielders
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this but I think you missed the most important reason. He has had muscle fatigue injuries this year. It is the same reason Dembele should not play a full 90 with the possible exception of CL elimination matches the rest of the way. Then you have Coutinho who has never or rarely been a 90 minute player and Vidal with his style and age is not a 90 minute player.

Rakitic and Busi don't get the luxury of just putting in a good 30-45-65 minute shift. They might go down in effectiveness keeping them on out there but they are veterans who will retain position and most importantly are low injury risks.

Jombi said:
People exaggerate the subs done. We dont have much depth and the veterans will not be subbed. GK or CBs are not usually subbed either unless its an emergency. That leaves very few substitute options if we want to use subs at all during a game.
Click to expand...

This is correct too. Consider the vets likely to better compensate with fatigue in their mental approach to the game + those with less injury risk = substitution patterns.

If we get 65 great minutes from Arthur every match that is fantastic. Let him know he can go as hard as he can, and the sub will come when he needs a break. This is a win all the way around. It is also good for Vidal to know he can do the same for 30 minutes or whatever.
 
FCBarca

FCBarca

Mike the Knife
Andresito said:
I guess you missed the game vs Betis.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I would count myself as a critic of Vidal's signing but no question that in some matches he has been immense and he showed fantastic qualities against Betis - I was really impressed with passes, decisions and pressing. Looked annoyed to come off too
 
G

Gnidrologist

Senior Member
Why do i never see this low stamina of Arthur? I only see him subbed off and then people say that it's because of his low stamina. Is it a fact or are you just pushing carriage in front of the horse? Obviously he would become a bit slower towards the end of the game because of his insane work rate, but Raki un Busi are as slow or even slower than him from the first minutes so what gives? I mean, i can believe that he really has some condition that maybe makes him not ready to play full matches (i think Xavi was substituted quite a lot before becoming goat mid), but that doesn't really become obvious from watching games unless 'Ernie subbing player x off, therefore player x = low stamina' logic.
 
A

Arizona Scott

New member
Andresito said:
I guess you missed the game vs Betis.
Click to expand...

I am not saying he can't play 90 minutes, but it is not ideal. In fact it is not ideal to play Rakitic, Arthur, Vidal, Dembele or Coutinho 90 minutes, for one or more reasons.

In most cases diminishing effectiveness due to fatigue in a high intensity position is an issue. However when it comes to Dembele and Arthur, they have also had the kinds of muscle injuries that exponentially occur with overuse and they are vital to the last quarter of the season. EV should basically have one of this assistants (in consultation with the trainers) be ready to tell him no matter what to take these two off after X minutes every match sans the CL final from here on out.
 
A

aqua2nd

New member
BBZ8800 said:
I think that people here are biased towards some players.

For example, my commentator, who is not a Barca fan, said that all players in Barca's midfield played below their level, or with 70% of motivation.

When Arthur was subbed, he said: not a good game from Arthur tonight.

About your remark that Rakitic had 65% passing accuracy, these are Sofascore stats:
Busquets 92%
Vidal 91%
Rakitic 85%
Arthur 83%

Regarding comments when people "don't understand" why is Arthur subbed off when we need to defend, maybe this will help:
Duels won:
Vidal 13
Rakitic 13
Busquets 8
Arthur 4

Interceptions, tackles and blocks COMBINED:
Busquets 10
Vidal 7
Rakitic 6
Arthur 2

Each of these midfielders have their strengths and weaknesses.
When EV is subbing off Arthur after 60 minutes, that is NOT because EV is a Retardo, but because:
1. We are trying to keep the lead and Arthur's set of skills are not that needed anymore
2. He has the weakest stamina out of these 4 players
3. In 90% of matches, he has the weakest defensive numbers out of these 4 midfielders
Click to expand...


I think you're asking too much in a player, you want a Xavi and yet you also want a Busquest in him too.
Arthur has similar physique type with Iniesta and Xavi and serves somewhat the similar role as Xavi. Did Xavi and Iniesta have defensive stats that can compare to Rakitic/Vidal/Busquest?
Arthur defend contribution is his pressing but we don't have stat for that. The only stat which kind of showing that is distance cover per minute. As someone already stated he covered more distance per minute than Rakitic/Busquest.
Same about speed, he isn't pace merchant type likes Dembele, Alba but that's fine. Xavi and Iniesta weren't pace merchants either what made them drove the ball so effectively are short acceleration and sudden change of speed and direction.
About his stamina, I agree that Arthur doesn't have stamina to press effectively for 90 minutes yet and we should help him improve that in the next season
 
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ATLBarcaFan

ATLBarcaFan

Senior Member
Thought Arthur was very average at times v Betis. On several occasions, he seemed to be hesitant to play an easy ball over the top and instead played the ball back.
 
P

PhilS

Active member
Well, he is not looking like someone who should be on the field for the big games coming up. He's just too passive.

Good first year with the club. He may well be a first 11 guy down the road, just not quite yet.
 
YodaMaster

YodaMaster

Member
PhilS said:
Well, he is not looking like someone who should be on the field for the big games coming up. He's just too passive.

Good first year with the club. He may well be a first 11 guy down the road, just not quite yet.
Click to expand...

He isn't back to his best yet after that injury he had a month ago. I love how people ignore the level he was playing at before his injury. He'll be back to his best, and when he's at his best, he's the best CM Barca has by far.
 
G

Gnidrologist

Senior Member
Yeah, he was surprisingly passive and invisible last game. Hope it's just something with his physical condition not a trend attitude wise. I disagree with statement that we don't need him big matches. He's exactly what we need to avoid crushing away loses in CL given he's in mint condition and motivated.
 
Andresito

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
It's the big games we need him for. He's been exceeding the expectations by far this season.

Him having a rare meh game, like yesterday, is no problem for me. His highest level is amazing and key if we are going to win CL.
 
SeloBarca

SeloBarca

Senior Member
PhilS said:
Well, he is not looking like someone who should be on the field for the big games coming up. He's just too passive.

Good first year with the club. He may well be a first 11 guy down the road, just not quite yet.
Click to expand...

Yea he was only the best midfielder by far in his first Classico.

Hes been our best midfielder this season overall, and thats on his first season, without any real preseason.

So yea, he was passive last game, but he also played mostly as DM for some reason.
 
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