Arthur

BBZ8800

Senior Member
And he does seem to fit a need in our midfield, better than Gomes and probably Denis too already, or at least better suited! He's the lesser version of Verratti

He hasn't played a single minute yet and he is already better than Gomes and Denis, and he is a weaker version of Verratti?

It's nice to see that a hype and too high expectations never die on this forum.

Also, you would sell Paulinho and Gomes for this kid who hasn't played a minute in Europe.

You do know that there are higher chances that he will end as a new Song than the future starter here?
Just statistically.

So, let's slow down with selling of players who are actually useful in Ev's system.
 
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Ghostmaster

Danger Ahead
He hasn't played a single minute yet and he is already better than Gomes and Denis, and he is a weaker version of Verratti?

It's nice to see that a hype and too high expectations never die on this forum.

Also, you would sell Paulinho and Gomes for this kid who hasn't played a minute in Europe.

You do know that there are higher chances that he will end as a new Song than the future starter here?
Just statistically.

So, let's slow down with selling of players who are actually useful in Ev's system.

Neither Paulinho or Gomes are controllers though, they might be useful in some matches to fulfill certain roles, but that's about it. Iniesta and Busi are the ones that are holding the midfield together, you take one of them out and it all collapses like we saw against Atletico in the second half. Now Arthur might flop of course, we can't see the future, but we need the player like him to control the midfield. Also Barto said that he won't be the only young player we buy, so Arthur might even have competition. I know I know, more 20-21 year old players means more flops:lol:. But looks like we are going that way and if they flop we still can sell them.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Neither Paulinho or Gomes are controllers though, they might be useful in some matches to fulfill certain roles, but that's about it. Iniesta and Busi are the ones that are holding the midfield together, you take one of them out and it all collapses like we saw against Atletico in the second half. Now Arthur might flop of course, we can't see the future, but we need the player like him to control the midfield. Also Barto said that he won't be the only young player we buy, so Arthur might even have competition. I know I know, more 20-21 year old players means more flops:lol:. But looks like we are going that way and if they flop we still can sell them.

So, wait...

We need:
1. a creator (Iniesta, Coutinho)
2. a CDM (Busi)
3. a controller (Xavi, Arthur, right?)
Where are worhorses like Rakitic here?

You are going back to Pep's 433 with a Cdm, controller and a creator, right?
While EV plays 442 with 1, 2 or 3 workhorses in a 4men midfield.

1. there is a chance that EV plays that way because we didn't have a controller
2. but also, there is a chance that EV plays that way because he likes workhorses

I have said the same in some other topics.
I have a feeling that EV is trying to set a team in one way, but our fans are trying to set a team in their way.
And their way is usually a 433 with copies of Busi-Xavi-Iniesta era :rolleyes:

Till death. Never change anything.
 

Ghostmaster

Danger Ahead
So, wait...

We need:
1. a creator (Iniesta, Coutinho)
2. a CDM (Busi)
3. a controller (Xavi, Arthur, right?)
Where are worhorses like Rakitic here?

You are going back to Pep's 433 with a Cdm, controller and a creator, right?
While EV plays 442 with 1, 2 or 3 workhorses in a 4men midfield.

1. there is a chance that EV plays that way because we didn't have a controller
2. but also, there is a chance that EV plays that way because he likes workhorses

I have said the same in some other topics.
I have a feeling that EV is trying to set a team in one way, but our fans are trying to set a team in their way.
And their way is usually a 433 with copies of Busi-Xavi-Iniesta era :rolleyes:

Till death. Never change anything.

EV was probably promised Verratti when he signed, so he was ready to set up the team differently from what he does now, so yeah, I am pretty sure that the plan is Coutinho-Busi-Arthur midfield in 4-3-3 and when we have balanced midfield, we actually won't need workhorses. Not to mention that Arthur isn't exactly soft or lazy player.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
EV was probably promised Verratti when he signed, so he was ready to set up the team differently from what he does now, so yeah, I am pretty sure that the plan is Coutinho-Busi-Arthur midfield in 4-3-3 and when we have balanced midfield, we actually won't need workhorses. Not to mention that Arthur isn't exactly soft or lazy player.

Ok, I respect your opinion that you believe that EV would like to play 433 and I can see where are you coming from.
I will rely only on things which we have seen till now, and that is that EV likes a physically strong midfield and 4 true midfielders.
I personally can't imagine EV fielding a 172 cms tall Coutinho and Arthur as his midfield duo.
I can't imagine him even playing 433 in away games, but we'll see.

A lineup without Rakitic/Gomes/Paulinho.
Both Lucho and EV used Rakitic and Gomes a lot.
Again, I can't imagine our team in 2018 (not 2009') without at least one stronger player.
 

serghei

Senior Member
So, wait...

We need:
1. a creator (Iniesta, Coutinho)
2. a CDM (Busi)
3. a controller (Xavi, Arthur, right?)
Where are worhorses like Rakitic here?

You are going back to Pep's 433 with a Cdm, controller and a creator, right?
While EV plays 442 with 1, 2 or 3 workhorses in a 4men midfield.

1. there is a chance that EV plays that way because we didn't have a controller
2. but also, there is a chance that EV plays that way because he likes workhorses

I have said the same in some other topics.
I have a feeling that EV is trying to set a team in one way, but our fans are trying to set a team in their way.
And their way is usually a 433 with copies of Busi-Xavi-Iniesta era :rolleyes:

Till death. Never change anything.

Instead of playing a workhorse like Paulinho who everytime he touches the ball, it bounces 1-2m off him, it's better to sign technical players, who also have good workrate and are good in defense.

Paulinho and Gomes, need to be replaced with a more creative player who can also help defensively. And we can find players like that. Contrary to the popular opinion, not every technical player is automatically soft and mellow. Some put in hard work and are pretty good defensively too. Let's hope this guys is the same.

So far, you seem to be critical of almost any signing we make without giving any alternative.

Signing a highly rated 21 years old player from Brazil from 30m + 10m, and one who happens to fit us style-wise in a position we are suffering atm, seems to me like a damn good idea in this market.
 
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Ok, I respect your opinion that you believe that EV would like to play 433 and I can see where are you coming from.
I will rely only on things which we have seen till now, and that is that EV likes a physically strong midfield and 4 true midfielders.
I personally can't imagine EV fielding a 172 cms tall Coutinho and Arthur as his midfield duo.
I can't imagine him even playing 433 in away games, but we'll see.

A lineup without Rakitic/Gomes/Paulinho.
Both Lucho and EV used Rakitic and Gomes a lot.
Again, I can't imagine our team in 2018 (not 2009') without at least one stronger player.

Gomes is not strong and Paulinho's strength is useless outside the opponent's box. Again, a player's physicality is not determined by his stature or physique itself, but rather how he puts it to use, if he puts it use at all that is.

I would also like you to tell me how a player like Paulinho who has no positional awareness and abandons his position in midfield to camp in the opponent's box is a "true midfielder?"

Arthur may not be the biggest or tallest midfielder, but he wins duels in the midfield and wins the ball back a hundred times better than Paulinho and Gomes combined.

You keep judging a player's physical ability by just looking at their height and weight. What really matters is how they play and use the body they're given. You would probably dismiss N’Golo Kante as a physically weak player by saying he's just 168cm tall.
 

jamrock

Senior Member
I'm not too sure about this guy, but I've literally never seen him play like most if us, so my opinion as it relates to that is largely baseless, but a CM coming straight of Brazil leave me with concerns. But I hope I'm proven wrong cause god knows we need a CM.

As it relates to bbz and is work horses nothing is wrong with signing a rakitic type of player every club needs a player like that, and our most successful moments have come with a player like that in our sqaud at least.

But there is a difference between van bommel, keita, rakitic, and paulinho & Gomes, who have almost zero redeeming qualities in midfield.

Hopefully our work horse midfielder will be Roberto, if not we will have to find someone that can actually contribute to the team holistically instead of a few tap ins and for Gomes I don't know what, nothingness I guess.
 

Hamzah

High Definition Member
Trying to replicate the pep 4-3-3 with inferior players is difficult and a waste of time imo
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Gomes is not strong and Paulinho's strength is useless outside the opponent's box. Again, a player's physicality is not determined by his stature or physique itself, but rather how he puts it to use, if he puts it use at all that is.

I would also like you to tell me how a player like Paulinho who has no positional awareness and abandons his position in midfield to camp in the opponent's box is a "true midfielder?"

Arthur may not be the biggest or tallest midfielder, but he wins duels in the midfield and wins the ball back a hundred times better than Paulinho and Gomes combined.

You keep judging a player's physical ability by just looking at their height and weight. What really matters is how they play and use the body they're given. You would probably dismiss N’Golo Kante as a physically weak player by saying he's just 168cm tall.

There is always one short guy who plays like a beast in defense.
On the other hand, there are 90% of other short players who are, well, like Xavi, Iniesta, Denis and Coutinho.

Look, there is a world in between players like Denis and Iniesta and guys like Paulinho or Fellaini.
Rakitic is decent technically (although miles from Xavi) and he offers some physical presence, defense and tactical stability.

About Arthur, nobody knows whether he is the next Xavi or the next Song.
Again, at Barca, for every player, there is a higher chance that he is the next Song.

Arthur is winning balls and duels in a Brasilian league where honestly all teams play very attacking and without too much defending or tactical awareness.
So, imo, you should be more cautious about someone winning duels in a Brasilian league.

Also, about physical skills, again, I have a feeling that you are forgetting how we are bullied year after year in a CL from teams like AM, Juve, Bayern and similar.
Yeah, on some occasions we won, but on majority of days we are bullied in midfield against those tugs teams due to having a 3men midfield and physically weak players.

And you have to think longterm.
Coutinho will probably play here for 5+ years.
So, one Cm is already very weak and doesn't play defense.
We will be weaker than with Iniesta, and already with Iniesta in a 3men midfield, we sucked in defense against big teams in a CL.
So, we will be even worse than now.
And now, solution from majority of you: Alena or Arthur.

I mean, do you watch football as a sport with attacking, defending, duels and 10s of other factors or do you watch at football only in a way: technique and attacking?

Your remark how Paulinho can't do shit in defense and how playing him is like playing with 10men, then why is he playing in a Brasilian NT team also?
I mean, if they have a gem like Arthur, shouldn't it be wiser to play an awesome young footballer like Arthur than "a crap" like Paulinho, who isn't doing anything in attack or defense and who is just ruining everything whatever he does?

I guess that Paulinho possess naked pics of both EV and from a Brasilian NT coach, right?
Because there is no other reason why would 2 coaches use him, since again, he is doing absolutely nothing on a field.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Coutinho is weak? Since when? Weak players don't shine in EPL. That's like the most phsyical league out there.

Short players aren't weak by default. Sure, he's not going to win you headers vs Fellaini, but the man is not weak. Weak players don't shoot cannon balls from 30m. Coutinho is short, but very fast, with great pace, and a very powerful shot.
 
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khaled_a_d

Senior Member
There is always one short guy who plays like a beast in defense.
On the other hand, there are 90% of other short players who are, well, like Xavi, Iniesta, Denis and Coutinho.

Look, there is a world in between players like Denis and Iniesta and guys like Paulinho or Fellaini.
Rakitic is decent technically (although miles from Xavi) and he offers some physical presence, defense and tactical stability.

About Arthur, nobody knows whether he is the next Xavi or the next Song.
Again, at Barca, for every player, there is a higher chance that he is the next Song.

Arthur is winning balls and duels in a Brasilian league where honestly all teams play very attacking and without too much defending or tactical awareness.
So, imo, you should be more cautious about someone winning duels in a Brasilian league.

Also, about physical skills, again, I have a feeling that you are forgetting how we are bullied year after year in a CL from teams like AM, Juve, Bayern and similar.
Yeah, on some occasions we won, but on majority of days we are bullied in midfield against those tugs teams due to having a 3men midfield and physically weak players.

And you have to think longterm.
Coutinho will probably play here for 5+ years.
So, one Cm is already very weak and doesn't play defense.
We will be weaker than with Iniesta, and already with Iniesta in a 3men midfield, we sucked in defense against big teams in a CL.
So, we will be even worse than now.
And now, solution from majority of you: Alena or Arthur.

I mean, do you watch football as a sport with attacking, defending, duels and 10s of other factors or do you watch at football only in a way: technique and attacking?

Your remark how Paulinho can't do shit in defense and how playing him is like playing with 10men, then why is he playing in a Brasilian NT team also?
I mean, if they have a gem like Arthur, shouldn't it be wiser to play an awesome young footballer like Arthur than "a crap" like Paulinho, who isn't doing anything in attack or defense and who is just ruining everything whatever he does?

I guess that Paulinho possess naked pics of both EV and from a Brasilian NT coach, right?
Because there is no other reason why would 2 coaches use him, since again, he is doing absolutely nothing on a field.

Who said Arthur isn't a workhorse? he seem to be already very strong defensively and do all the needed work.
And it is about getting a talent, If Arthur is as good as the board think he is then we will find a way to fit him in midfield, may be move Coutinho to LW if needed.
 

Joan

Well-known member
Doesn't remind me of Iniesta. If I had to chose, would say Modrić.

Doesn't seem weak physically, that's important. If he ever comes close to Rakitić's recent level, will be a huge success.
 

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