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Thread: 8 - Arthur

  1. #6106
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    I just wanna say that some people on this forum, they know who they are, have a complete misrepresentation of what a talented player is. They think about 5-6 players in the last 10 years who have had an unreal and disproportional amount of talent, and somehow have concluded that that's what talent is about. False.

    Most talented players, and by most I mean the vast majority of them, let's say 8 out of 10, as good of a guess as any, need proper guidance and proper 'mentorship' to deveop in the finished product. This translates to 'talented, but not quite as such a rare gem as to make it despite the conditions and the environment they find themselves in'. And you can include in this category the vast majority of talented players who made it and were somewhat of a surprise element. From this category you can exclude insane talents like R9, Ronaldinho, Messi, Zidane, Cristinao Ronaldo, Mbappe possibly, Neymar and some others. Mostly naturally gifted attacking players which suit all styles, and most managers will automatically use them well because they are so gifted any style suits them.

    But this is not what talented means. Talent is also that kind of quality which can be unearthed by a proper mentor, and a proper manager. And users like BBZ (no offense man, I really think you're one of the best members here, and I apoligize to you for the occasions where I came off as arrogant or a jerk - you're kind of like me, just in the opposite side of football so to speak), completely fail to understand or value these players. For this type of fans, these are the players who are not valued enough. Want examples? Plenty of those. Busquets and Pedro are players whose talent was unearthed and developed by Guardiola. A lot of players for whom Klopp was the trigger factor, Salah, Arnold, Mane. Players who were not insane talents, but became and developed their hidden quality under these top tier mentors and leaders. This is the difference between a Klopp/Pep, and a Valverde. Even Conte. Someone please notice the huge increase in performances and influence of Lautaro Martinez, making the switch from a decent, even Valverde-like manager like Spaletti, to a high-quality motivator and inspirational figure like Conte. Realize this, and then understand the disproportionate influence a manager like Klopp has on every talented player working under him.

    This subject is multi-faceted. It brings in many things into question. There are many situations where you think a player is talented and it turns up to be not so talented. Many situations where players completely surprise you, in that they have the gift, only you didn't notice them. Salah found a Klopp and became one of the best players in Europe. He could've stayed at Rome, never met Klopp, and this day he'd be struggling to show his quality in Europa League, Europe's second stage on late thursday nights where people recover after CL nights and don't pay as much attention to football. Those who think they have the solution and they're never wrong are clowns. Even mighty Pep completely judged players the wrong way, and he's no doubt a great football mind.

    I do agree over-hyping young players is an issue, sure, but, for me, the biggest issue is not understanding that the player, 99% of the cases, doesn't make it alone. If we let managers clown their way for years, and look to sign only those players who make it no matter what, we're gonna find that we miss the mark with transfers a lot. Because those players are fucking rare. We're talking about the Messis, the Ronaldinhos, the Cristianos of world football. Guys, wake up and smell the coffee, those players don't float around and wait for Barca to pick them. They are tied to contracts, paid huge money. The solution is the one found by Liverpool. Get the guy who can build a great team with good players. The anti-Valverde manager. The brilliant fail-proof team filled with superstars who can't fail is an illusion. You can't built that team because every team needs at least a good manager to succeed at the highest level. It's been proven. Good teams with great managers tent to be more succesfull at the highest levels, than superstar filled teams with average managers at the helm.

    In the last 3-4 years we've been caught believing the Galactico-vision hype. In that if you get the best attacking players, you can win big even with an average manager, whose biggest quality is that 'he keeps things quite'. This is not a winning plan. When you have a manager whose biggest quality is that he doesn't make a fuss, then the alarm bells are already whistling like crazy. Then that guy is not the guy who is gonna move the team forward. The great managers are leaders. They impose their vision and gather everyone around them. They lead not by fear. They lead because they have a project, and the leaders of the team realize they have to follow that, as they have an innate ability as elite sportsmen to know a leader when they see it.

    I can bet you everything that the Liverpool players who met Klopp, or the Barca players who met Pep, or even the Madrid players who met Zidane, sensed in some way that this guy has what it takes to lead them towards greatness.

    All I want is for us as a club to find that manager again. And I'm not speaking about fame. Pep in 2008 wasn't worldwide famous. Zidane wasn't worldwide famous. Mourinho prior Porto was a nobody. And he won back to back European titles, Uefa in 2003, Champions in 2004. Quality and fame are not always in sync.

    What I'm saying is get that manager, and we'll see a whole new definition on what talent is. We'll see what Arthur and De Jong are capable of. They're not Messis. They can't do it on their own. So if you guys expect them to play under a nobody and a moron like Valverde and play like peak Xavi under the greatest manager of modern times, then you're, sorry to say, clueless as fuck.
    Last edited by serghei; 3rd December 2019 at 07:00 PM.

  2. #6107
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    TAA and Robertson have evolved into the fourth best fullback pair of the last 10 years.

    After: 1) Alves Alba 14/15
    2) Marcelo Carvajal 16/17
    3) Lahm Alaba 12/13

    2 years ago, they were nobodies on the world football stage. Under Valmierda, they'd probably be loaned out to mid table German or Italian club a year in. Arthur and FDJ (especially) have already started off way better than TAA and Robertson. FDJ won the midfield versus Madrid and Juve in the CL. Arthur has won a Copa as Brazll's engine. There's glimpses of potential greatness and our current manager is the one halting it from manifesting.

  3. #6108
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    TAA and Robertson have evolved into the fourth best fullback pair of the last 10 years.

    After: 1) Alves Alba 14/15
    2) Marcelo Carvajal 16/17
    3) Lahm Alaba 12/13

    2 years ago, they were nobodies on the world football stage. Under Valmierda, they'd probably be loaned out to mid table German or Italian club a year in. Arthur and FDJ (especially) have already started off way better than TAA and Robertson. FDJ won the midfield versus Madrid and Juve in the CL. Arthur has won a Copa as Brazll's engine. There's glimpses of potential greatness and our current manager is the one halting it from manifesting.
    That's exactly what it's about. Today, Liverpool can't buy better fullbacks then the one they developed in house by getting Klopp as their manager. This is the way. We should have learned it during Pep, but we didn't (mostly the clueless board). We are today caught in the Galactico hype. And we're seeing Liverpool dominating world football with a team who wasn't even on the map before Klopp was signed. A joke team, living on decade past memories like 2005 Istanbul.

  4. #6109
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    Interesting how hair dying, dabbing, all-night gaming, and social media hogging all applies to Neyney and yet he continues to be among your favorites. Any rationale for this?
    Of course. Neymar is a special talent. Would probably be on Messi level and maintain his famous "winter 2016 form" consistently if he actually showed any dedication. With some rare talents you can overlook their unprofessionalism. Démbéle and the likes don't belong there.

  5. #6110
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    I just wanna say that some people on this forum, they know who they are, have a complete misrepresentation of what a talented player is. They think about 5-6 players in the last 10 years who have had an unreal and disproportional amount of talent, and somehow have concluded that that's what talent is about. False.

    Most talented players, and by most I mean the vast majority of them, let's say 8 out of 10, as good of a guess as any, need proper guidance and proper 'mentorship' to deveop in the finished product. This translates to 'talented, but not quite as such a rare gem as to make it despite the conditions and the environment they find themselves in'. And you can include in this category the vast majority of talented players who made it and were somewhat of a surprise element. From this category you can exclude insane talents like R9, Ronaldinho, Messi, Zidane, Cristinao Ronaldo, Mbappe possibly, Neymar and some others. Mostly naturally gifted attacking players which suit all styles, and most managers will automatically use them well because they are so gifted any style suits them.

    But this is not what talented means. Talent is also that kind of quality which can be unearthed by a proper mentor, and a proper manager. And users like BBZ (no offense man, I really think you're one of the best members here, and I apoligize to you for the occasions where I came off as arrogant or a jerk - you're kind of like me, just in the opposite side of football so to speak), completely fail to understand or value these players. For this type of fans, these are the players who are not valued enough. Want examples? Plenty of those. Busquets and Pedro are players whose talent was unearthed and developed by Guardiola. A lot of players for whom Klopp was the trigger factor, Salah, Arnold, Mane. Players who were not insane talents, but became and developed their hidden quality under these top tier mentors and leaders. This is the difference between a Klopp/Pep, and a Valverde. Even Conte. Someone please notice the huge increase in performances and influence of Lautaro Martinez, making the switch from a decent, even Valverde-like manager like Spaletti, to a high-quality motivator and inspirational figure like Conte. Realize this, and then understand the disproportionate influence a manager like Klopp has on every talented player working under him.

    This subject is multi-faceted. It brings in many things into question. There are many situations where you think a player is talented and it turns up to be not so talented. Many situations where players completely surprise you, in that they have the gift, only you didn't notice them. Salah found a Klopp and became one of the best players in Europe. He could've stayed at Rome, never met Klopp, and this day he'd be struggling to show his quality in Europa League, Europe's second stage on late thursday nights where people recover after CL nights and don't pay as much attention to football. Those who think they have the solution and they're never wrong are clowns. Even mighty Pep completely judged players the wrong way, and he's no doubt a great football mind.

    I do agree over-hyping young players is an issue, sure, but, for me, the biggest issue is not understanding that the player, 99% of the cases, doesn't make it alone. If we let managers clown their way for years, and look to sign only those players who make it no matter what, we're gonna find that we miss the mark with transfers a lot. Because those players are fucking rare. We're talking about the Messis, the Ronaldinhos, the Cristianos of world football. Guys, wake up and smell the coffee, those players don't float around and wait for Barca to pick them. They are tied to contracts, paid huge money. The solution is the one found by Liverpool. Get the guy who can build a great team with good players. The anti-Valverde manager. The brilliant fail-proof team filled with superstars who can't fail is an illusion. You can't built that team because every team needs at least a good manager to succeed at the highest level. It's been proven. Good teams with great managers tent to be more succesfull at the highest levels, than superstar filled teams with average managers at the helm.

    In the last 3-4 years we've been caught believing the Galactico-vision hype. In that if you get the best attacking players, you can win big even with an average manager, whose biggest quality is that 'he keeps things quite'. This is not a winning plan. When you have a manager whose biggest quality is that he doesn't make a fuss, then the alarm bells are already whistling like crazy. Then that guy is not the guy who is gonna move the team forward. The great managers are leaders. They impose their vision and gather everyone around them. They lead not by fear. They lead because they have a project, and the leaders of the team realize they have to follow that, as they have an innate ability as elite sportsmen to know a leader when they see it.

    I can bet you everything that the Liverpool players who met Klopp, or the Barca players who met Pep, or even the Madrid players who met Zidane, sensed in some way that this guy has what it takes to lead them towards greatness.

    All I want is for us as a club to find that manager again. And I'm not speaking about fame. Pep in 2008 wasn't worldwide famous. Zidane wasn't worldwide famous. Mourinho prior Porto was a nobody. And he won back to back European titles, Uefa in 2003, Champions in 2004. Quality and fame are not always in sync.

    What I'm saying is get that manager, and we'll see a whole new definition on what talent is. We'll see what Arthur and De Jong are capable of. They're not Messis. They can't do it on their own. So if you guys expect them to play under a nobody and a moron like Valverde and play like peak Xavi under the greatest manager of modern times, then you're, sorry to say, clueless as fuck.
    Agreed talented does not mean world class. Most players that made it to these big leagues are various degrees of talented. They were all top players in their youth teams. There’s talented then there’s world class potential the latter which is observed once their playing in pros for a good number of years after their start (twenties)
    #NeyorBust Let continue where we left off ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ👑

  6. #6111
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    Apparently he has gonorrhea which the club hid as pain in his groin.

    I really think the best for him would be to settle down with a GF/wife, Brazilians singles in Barcelona is a bad combo.

    Hope he is ok tbh

  7. #6112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riordon View Post
    Apparently he has gonorrhea which the club hid as pain in his groin.

    I really think the best for him would be to settle down with a GF/wife, Brazilians singles in Barcelona is a bad combo.

    Hope he is ok tbh
    Source?

  8. #6113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alik View Post
    Source?
    I think some insider who told Andreu Ginola or something like that.

    Even if it's true it's not cool to tell everyone about it !! and the Medical staff should be questioned.
    ---

    Edit
    On a second thought on STDs (if it's like France) you would report recent sex partners for counter-checks, so maybe one of the many many girls he's being with reported the news (if it's true of course).

    Anyway he needs some slaps in the face as he wont go far away with this kind of behavior, R. Carlos had some dark times at Inter but took his shit together and became a legend.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELVApMbU4AAKUFT.jpg
    Last edited by Nazario1985; 9th December 2019 at 09:54 AM.

  9. #6114
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    These things shouldn't be public.

  10. #6115
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    Bad news for him and the club if true, gonorrhea is no joke to have, and such thing could mean he needs to alter his lifestyle for his own sake.
    I also agree those news should stay away from the public, but it rarely does.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    TAA and Robertson have evolved into the fourth best fullback pair of the last 10 years.

    After: 1) Alves Alba 14/15
    2) Marcelo Carvajal 16/17
    3) Lahm Alaba 12/13

    2 years ago, they were nobodies on the world football stage. Under Valmierda, they'd probably be loaned out to mid table German or Italian club a year in. Arthur and FDJ (especially) have already started off way better than TAA and Robertson. FDJ won the midfield versus Madrid and Juve in the CL. Arthur has won a Copa as Brazll's engine. There's glimpses of potential greatness and our current manager is the one halting it from manifesting.



    Today, Liverpool can't do what they have done couple of years ago.
    When they needed to reinforce attack, they bought Salah -who was already world class- for club record fee. When they felt they are close to competing they bought VVD for world record fee, when GK cost them, they bought Alisson for world record fee. Keïta was also signed for huge sum, same for Fabinho.
    They have a great scouting network that work in harmony with the coach, that confirm that those players who they are interested are great fit for the coach.
    Those are the players who turned Liverpool around more than anyone else in the squad.
    And Arthur has developed in great rate here while FDJ is also doing well, Lenglet is doing fine for his abilities.
    The club as a whole has failed to develop any young talent since Rijkaard days unless he was already trained with 1st team coach during his tenure in Barca B (Pedro/Busquets with Pep, Roberto with Lucho) and that is 11 years of sample size. And there is no more Cesc or Pique in other clubs, the best we got is Bellerin and some others who are having decent but nothing breathtaking careers like Grimaldo or Keita Balde. There is also Icardi who stayed here for 3 years before being sold by the club and we really never contributed much to his development.

    You can't get it all, you can't groom your own youngsters while expecting the club to be competing for Liga/CL at same time unless you have an elite talent like Messi. There are obvious exceptions but and again, those were usually related to past experience with coach.
    There are some coaches who might be determined to do both like LVG during his prime days, but those are very rare.

  11. #6116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riordon View Post
    Apparently he has gonorrhea which the club hid as pain in his groin.
    this must be a joke, right? you would think, with all the money these idiots earn, they could afford decent clean pussy.

    wtf, they should be balls deep in victoria secret models and the likes. not get poor mans STDs like gonorrhea. unbelievable if true!

  12. #6117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riordon View Post
    Apparently he has gonorrhea which the club hid as pain in his groin.
    The rumor also said that medicine for gonorrhoea pops up on anti-doping control’s radar.

  13. #6118
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    Arthur wrecks his career with some hookers - if this is true we witness some millionairs tragedy in its cheapest flavour.
    https://twitter.com/ZachLowy/status/1203837819367690240
    If you observe something that does not make sense, remember: it's all about the dough!

  14. #6119
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    So pretty much confirmed Arthur has gotten an STD from hookers.

    Shame but his career is over it seems

  15. #6120
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    If these rumours are true.
    Valverde: "I don't think about resigning and I don't feel like players have failed me."

    Valverde: "This is football. It costs us and it costs the whole world."