Matthijs de Ligt

El Gato

Villarato!
Not too keen on de Ligt myself. Think RM got quite the deal with Militao. That’s the kinda pace we need at the back, and they even had Varane already. We are really far behind in that area and it shows in so many of our games.

You're fine. Conceding least goals in the last 2 years bar the Simeone bus. Pace isn't so crucial for this Barca. Puyol wasn't ever the fastest in sprint or whenever he had to turn quickly. It may be if you start taking as many risks as RM do, but that won't happen as long as you have Messi-Suarez doing whatever they want.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
VVD plays in PL, highly competitive legaue were you can rate him weekend by weekend +cl and cups, at the same time de ligt play in poor legaue like eredivision... Of course fans will draw conclusion based on his performances vs top teams, rather then vs den haag or groningen, like you guys stream those matches, yeah right, im sure Mina would look like thuram there, and halilovic next big thing.. Ajax has goal difference there 88:22, enough said


Edit: if he was poor against germany, why searching for excuses, he is still young and has time to learn, but he isnt WC defender, could turn into one, but also fail, not the first, not the last young cb talent

Again, with the dissing of other leagues and judging a player based on league strength :facepalm:. You have to judge every player differently and look at their skillset rather than which league they play in.

I guess Real Madrid should have signed some La Liga winger and we signed some bang average midfielder because they were more proven right?

When I said Arthur was a good signing people like you were already calling him for a flop since he played in a super weak Brazilian league. Look at a 18 year old Vinicius from that super weak Brazilian league and how well he is adapting to La Liga.

Look at de Ligt and de Jong's performances against Bayern, Real Madrid, Benfica, France, etc.

People also mocked Liverpool for signing van Dijk who only played for Southampton for 85m euros.

Mina would not look like a Thuram in Netherlands, Halilovic would not look like a half decent player there either. Some of you folks need to get a grip with your fallacies.

It's fair to question de Ligt with regards to whether we need a CB like that or someone that's more athletic and faster. He's not World Class yet obviously, but he's already playing at a very high level, especially for someone his age.
 
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Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
When people say De Ligt is heavy, are they referring to his weight (189cm and 89kg), his stocky torso or just that he is a bit slow?

I don’t think he is bulky or fat, he seems to have quite a bit of muscle developed. I do wonder if under some special training regimen if he could be faster.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Halilovic would not look like a half decent player there either.

Hmm...

Let's say it this way:
When a player is awesome in a weaker league, like Netherlands, or even weaker league, like Croatia:
1. you don't know whether he is the best player there because he is the next Modric (like Modric was dominating in Croatia in a young age)
2. or he is dominating because a league is shit (like Halilovic, Pjaca for example in Croatia)

Based on performances in Croatian league alone, it was hard to tell who will turn into a gem or into a flop between Modric, Halilovic, Pjaca.
All 3 were hyped by local fans, papers and foreign fans to be the next big thing.

But once when they came into a bigger league:
1. Modric continued with his good performances and improved even more
2. Pjaca turned out to be a star of a small league and average in a bigger country
3. Halilovic turned out to be the biggest fraud of a player, who was once named the next Messi, not only by Croatian but also by foreign European papers

So, based on matches from Holland, it is a gamble to say: De Light or someone is a real deal or a fraud.
This is why we have to watch:
1. NT matches with Netherlands
2. CL matches with Ajax
3. and matches when he joins a new club

Until now, his NT matches and CL matches are a hit and miss.
In some, he is awesome, and in others, he is making tons of rookie mistakes.
Yesterday's match was not the first one.

Regarding him, let's say that I have also learned a lesson, and that nobody can claim that he will be a real deal or a fail.
All that we know is that he is good in his early age, that he is a risk, and even if he'll reach a world class level for Barca someday, it will take years of losing points and mistakes.
When a forward like Dembele makes mistakes, it isn't THAT costly, because instead of 1:0, it will stay 0:0.
If a young midfielder like Arthur makes a mistake, he will just make a wrong pass or cause a counter against us.
BUT, if a young defender like De Light makes a mistakes, that usually means: 0:1 right away.

So, I would say that it is way harder in a big team to "develop" a goalkeeper or a defender, than midfielders or forwards, since mistakes from defenders are the most costly.

In that sense, I guess that we will see tons of his mistakes like from yesterday in his first Barca's years, both because:
1. he is young
2. and it will take time to adjust to La Liga's attackers

On the other hand, in spite of his mistakes, I can already see tons of posts here: EV needs to be sacked, De Light needs to play as much as possible.

Regarding to your original point about Halilovic, let's look in a hindsight his performances from 2013/14, preBarca, when he was only 17 years old (born in June 1997, so he turned 18 after the end of 2013/14 season).
Now, imagine that we don't know how his story ended.
And imagine that a kid from this video is some new kid from Lille, Benfica or Psv who is 17 years old and is creating havoc and magic in his domestic league.
Now, honestly, didn't a kid from this video looked quite promising age 17 (awesome pace, dribbles, technique, reminds of Messi, scoring, assisting, plays as a Cm, plays as a winger, brave, motivated...).
How many people would put their money back then that 5 years later a kid from that video won't be able to play in any decent 1st division team as a starter, in Spain, Italy and Germany.
Not to many, right?
I mean, he was young. He was 17. He was young, had potential. He could have only improved after that?
Nothing of that happened:
 

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
When people say De Ligt is heavy, are they referring to his weight (189cm and 89kg), his stocky torso or just that he is a bit slow?

I don’t think he is bulky or fat, he seems to have quite a bit of muscle developed. I do wonder if under some special training regimen if he could be faster.

All of it. It's clear he is a tall and big guy, he will never be the speedy agile type of defender.

I'd say he is quite heavy for his height (Pique is taller with less weight for example) and you can always train a certain way but it probably won't have a significant impact on his mobility/acceleration.
 
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God Serena

New member
Hmm...

Let's say it this way:
When a player is awesome in a weaker league, like Netherlands, or even weaker league, like Croatia:
1. you don't know whether he is the best player there because he is the next Modric (like Modric was dominating in Croatia in a young age)
2. or he is dominating because a league is shit (like Halilovic, Pjaca for example in Croatia)

Based on performances in Croatian league alone, it was hard to tell who will turn into a gem or into a flop between Modric, Halilovic, Pjaca.
All 3 were hyped by local fans, papers and foreign fans to be the next big thing.

But once when they came into a bigger league:
1. Modric continued with his good performances and improved even more
2. Pjaca turned out to be a star of a small league and average in a bigger country
3. Halilovic turned out to be the biggest fraud of a player, who was once named the next Messi, not only by Croatian but also by foreign European papers

So, based on matches from Holland, it is a gamble to say: De Light or someone is a real deal or a fraud.
This is why we have to watch:
1. NT matches with Netherlands
2. CL matches with Ajax
3. and matches when he joins a new club

Until now, his NT matches and CL matches are a hit and miss.
In some, he is awesome, and in others, he is making tons of rookie mistakes.
Yesterday's match was not the first one.

Regarding him, let's say that I have also learned a lesson, and that nobody can claim that he will be a real deal or a fail.
All that we know is that he is good in his early age, that he is a risk, and even if he'll reach a world class level for Barca someday, it will take years of losing points and mistakes.
When a forward like Dembele makes mistakes, it isn't THAT costly, because instead of 1:0, it will stay 0:0.
If a young midfielder like Arthur makes a mistake, he will just make a wrong pass or cause a counter against us.
BUT, if a young defender like De Light makes a mistakes, that usually means: 0:1 right away.

So, I would say that it is way harder in a big team to "develop" a goalkeeper or a defender, than midfielders or forwards, since mistakes from defenders are the most costly.

In that sense, I guess that we will see tons of his mistakes like from yesterday in his first Barca's years, both because:
1. he is young
2. and it will take time to adjust to La Liga's attackers

On the other hand, in spite of his mistakes, I can already see tons of posts here: EV needs to be sacked, De Light needs to play as much as possible.

Regarding to your original point about Halilovic, let's look in a hindsight his performances from 2013/14, preBarca, when he was only 17 years old (born in June 1997, so he turned 18 after the end of 2013/14 season).
Now, imagine that we don't know how his story ended.
And imagine that a kid from this video is some new kid from Lille, Benfica or Psv who is 17 years old and is creating havoc and magic in his domestic league.
Now, honestly, didn't a kid from this video looked quite promising age 17 (awesome pace, dribbles, technique, reminds of Messi, scoring, assisting, plays as a Cm, plays as a winger, brave, motivated...).
How many people would put their money back then that 5 years later a kid from that video won't be able to play in any decent 1st division team as a starter, in Spain, Italy and Germany.
Not to many, right?
I mean, he was young. He was 17. He was young, had potential. He could have only improved after that?
Nothing of that happened:

Yes, we will probably concede goals, and even lose points with a young CB in goal. These kinds of things happen. But I don't really see a problem with that. We lost points when we sold Bravo because Mats was finding his feet as a weekly starter, and look at him now. Any points we may have lost from having Mats in goal instead of Bravo ended up not being able to stop us from winning the league, and now Mats is up there with Messi for players keeping us in the league through individual performances. I'm actually expecting us to lose points playing with younger players. Growing isn't always a painless process.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Kid is a stellar talent and a must sign. No 19 year old CB is world class. You pay for quality and potential. World class CBs are almost never in the market.

Umtiti was just a good CB from Lyon. Van Dijk played for Southampton. Ramos was signed green by Madrid
and Varane the same. Pique the same.

De Ligt will be the perfect Pique replacement.
 
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Ajax

New member
As a big club you should always try to buy these upcoming stars and in times of need you buy an arrived player. Barca is not in a real need. If he dissapoints he can be benched or play small games at first. If he is a hit you know you are good for 10 years (or make crazy profits)

In todays market you can buy:

- an arrived star, say VvD. Costs 150m + 50m salary and is worth <50m in 3years at 30+.
- a relative bargain due to exceptional scouting: costs 25m + 10m in salary. If he fails he will loaned out forever at a loss
- buy the highest rated young players: pay 80m + 20m in salary. If he fails you get 40m back. If he succeeds you make 100m profit or keep him for 10y

Juve bought Ronaldo because they needed that last push. Makes sense. Ajax buys the 2nd category (and well below lol) because the first and last category are not interested. Barca should buy toptalents or arrived top playes
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
Yes, we will probably concede goals, and even lose points with a young CB in goal. These kinds of things happen. But I don't really see a problem with that. We lost points when we sold Bravo because Mats was finding his feet as a weekly starter, and look at him now. Any points we may have lost from having Mats in goal instead of Bravo ended up not being able to stop us from winning the league, and now Mats is up there with Messi for players keeping us in the league through individual performances. I'm actually expecting us to lose points playing with younger players. Growing isn't always a painless process.
Sadly there is that chance that Valverde actually may play him in goal !!
:)
 

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