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  1. #14296
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    You simply can't expect more from a manager of this limited capacity. Winning two domestic Doubles with Valverde is a huge accomplishment.

  2. #14297
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    ... dummy like Dumbele ...
    err he was still nominated the Ligue 1 Young Player of the Year: 15–16 in his time at Rennes and
    the Bundesliga Rookie of the Season: 16–17 when playing with Dortmund


    what is he, some kind of boy wonder idiot savant?

    going by your posts, you'd have perma-benched both neyney and dembouze while perma-starting your fav workhorses. dat shiiiizzz iizzz kraaaaaaayyyzzzeeeeeeeee ヽ(•́o•̀)ノ

  3. #14298
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    Quote Originally Posted by FCBfan22 View Post
    I'd like to see BBZ explain why did Raheem Sterling turn from one of the most frustrating and stupid players to a great winger under a WC coach. Same with Salah, who was slightly above average in Roma.

    P.S. Please do not make a fool out of yourself saying that Sterling was better than Dembele before being coached by Pep.
    True. Valverde is the wrong man to get the best out of our offensive weapons.

  4. #14299
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    There are coaches like Klopp that can get the best out of young players.
    Valgreen is not one of those coaches.

  5. #14300
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    Quote Originally Posted by jairzinho View Post
    There are coaches like Klopp that can get the best out of young players.
    Valgreen is not one of those coaches.
    Are you serious? What EV did with youth at Bilbao was superb and he rightfully earned praise for his youth integration and attacking football

  6. #14301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messigician View Post
    Are you serious? What EV did with youth at Bilbao was superb and he rightfully earned praise for his youth integration and attacking football
    He most certainly has not been able to do that here at Barcelona, which matters significantly more than any past accomplishment outside of our club.

  7. #14302
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    I'll need to copy this post to my laptop because I'll need these stats every season, because some things never change and majority of people will never learn.
    Anyway, since a lot of guys are mentioning how Puig, Alena, Oriol and now even Wague are our future and a stupid coach is not giving them too much time.
    And how we should sell oldies (with which I agree) and play with THESE youngsters (lol, with which I surely don't agree)...
    I have checked the last 20 years and ALL of our greatest youth prospects since 2000.
    I have found 88 players in total and only 8 of them turned out to be good enough for Barca's starting 11.
    Also, we had 56 players who played for Spanish youth or senior NT teams, and they weren't good enough for Barca.

    Guys who were good enough for starters at Barca:
    Cm Iniesta 2002, 45 youth NT matches, 131 SENIOR NT matches
    Cm Thiago Alcantara 2009, 42 youth NT matches, 31 SENIOR NT matches
    CB Pique 2008, 40 youth NT matches, 102 SENIOR NT matches
    Cm Fabregas, 39 youth NT matches, 110 SENIOR NT matches
    GK Valdes 2002, 26 youth NT matches, 20 senior matches
    Rw Messi 2004, 23 youth NT matches, 129 SENIOR NT matches
    Cdm Busquets 2008, 3 youth NT matches, 112 SENIOR NT matches
    LW Pedro 2008, 2 youth NT matches, 64 SENIOR NT matches

    Guys who didn't turn into starters for Barca, BUT WERE YOUTH NT Players for Spain:
    Gk Pepe Reina 2000, 36 SENIOR NT matches, 33 youth NT matches
    Lw Luis Garcia 2003, 20 SENIOR NT matches
    Cf Nolito 2010, 16 SENIOR NT matches
    Rw Deulofeu 2011, 87 youth NT matches, 4 SENIOR NT matches
    Cf Abel Ruiz 2019, 50 youth NT matches
    Cm Gabri 2000, 48 youth NT matches, 3 SENIOR matches
    Rb Montoya 2011, 47 youth NT matches
    Cf Bojan Krkic 2007, 41 youth NT matches,1 SENIOR NT match
    Rb Sergi Roberto 2010, 39 youth NT matches, 5 SENIOR NT matches
    Cb Sergi Gomez 2010, 39 youth NT matches
    Cdm Oriol Romeu 2010, 39 youth NT matches
    Cb Dani Tortolero 2002, 38 youth NT matches
    Cb Bartra 2010, 37 youth NT matches, 14 SENIOR NT matches
    Cf Sergio Garcia 2003, 36 youth NT matches, 2 senior NT matches
    Lb Carles Planas 2012, 34 youth NT matches
    Lb Cucurella 2018, 33 youth NT matches
    Lb Pena 2005, 30 youth NT matches
    Cf Jeffren 2008, 30 youth NT matches
    Cb Muniesa 2009, 30 youth NT matches
    Cb Botia 2009, 29 youth NT matches
    Lw Nano 2000, 26 youth NT matches
    Lw Tello 2011, 26 youth NT matches, 1 SENIOR NT match
    Cf Sandro 2014, 26 youth NT matches
    Cf Jonathan Soriano 2009, 25 youth NT matches
    Cb Tarin 2018, 24 youth NT matches
    Cb Mario 2003, 23 youth NT matches
    Cm Samper 2014, 23 youth NT matches
    Lb Grimaldo 2015, 21 youth NT matches
    Cm Roberto Trashorras 2002, 20 youth NT matches
    Cf Munir 2014, 20 youth matches
    Lb David Bermudo 2001, 18 youth NT matches
    Rw Adama 2013, 18 youth NT matches
    Cam Sergio Santamaria 2000, 17 youth NT matches
    Rw Carles Perez 2019, 17 youth NT matches
    Cb Andreu Fontas 2009, 14 youth NT matches
    Cb Borja Lopez 2016, 14 youth NT matches
    Lb Fernando Navarro 2004, 12 youth NT matches, 2 senior NT matches
    Rw Paco Montanes 2005, 12 youth NT matches
    Rb Kiko Femenia 2013, 11 youth NT matches
    Gk Masip 2014, 11 youth NT matches
    Lm Jofre Mateu 2000, 10 youth NT matches
    Cm Carbonell 2016, 10 youth NT matches
    Cdm Sarsanedas 2019, 10 youth NT matches
    Cb Jesus Olmo 2005, 8 youth NT matches
    Lw Juan Camara 2016, 8 youth NT matches
    Gk Ruben Martinez 2004, 4 youth NT matches
    Cm David Sanchez 2002, 4 youth NT matches
    Rw Cuenca 2011, 3 youth NT matches
    Cm Joan Verdu 2004, 2 youth NT matches
    Gk Ruben Mino 2010, 2 youth NT matches
    Rb Palencia 2018, 2 youth NT matches
    Dc Rodri 2004, 1 youth NT match
    Rw Javito 2004, 1 youth NT match
    Cm Jordi Gomez 2005, 1 youth NT match
    Cam Victor Vasquez 2008, 1 youth NT match
    Gk Oier 2008, 1 youth NT match

    Edgar Ie 2015, 41 youth NT matches, 1 SENIOR NT match (Portugal)
    Halilovic 2015, 40 youth NT matches, 9 SENIOR NT matches (Croatia)
    Gio Dos Santos 2007, 23 youth NT matches, 106 SENIOR NT matches (Mexico)
    Rafinha, 23 youth NT matches, 2 SENIOR NT matches (Brasil)
    Gai Assulin 2009, 22 youth NT matches, 1 SENIOR NT match (Israel)
    Marlon 2016, 12 youth NT matches (Brasil)
    Cdm Diagne 2015, 9 youth NT matches, 2 SENIOR NT matches (Senegal)
    Motta 2001, 3 youth NT matches, 2 SENIOR NT matches (Brasil)
    Jonathan Dos Santos 2009, 0 youth NT matches, 40 SENIOR NT matches (Mexico)
    Ondoa 2015, 0 youth NT matches, 38 SENIOR NT matches (Cameroon)

    Cb Oleguer 2003, 167 matches for Barca
    Gk Jorquera 2004, 24 matches for Barca
    Dr Damia 2004, 9 matches for Barca
    Cm Gumbau 2015, 9 matches for Barca
    Lb Oscar Lopez 2003, 8 matches for Barca
    Cdm Victor Sanchez 2008, 8 matches for Barca
    Cf Arnaiz 2017, 5 match for Barca
    Cm Kaptoum 2016, 3 matches for Barca
    Cm Sylvestre, 2 matches for Barca
    Cdm Xavi Torres, 2 matches for Barca
    Cm Abraham, 2 matches for Barca
    Cm Pitu 2005, 1 match for Barca
    Rb Martos 2005, 1 match for Barca
    Cm Ramon Maso 2005, 1 match for Barca
    Cdm Ramon Ros 2003, 1 match for Barca
    Cf Dongou 2013, 1 match for Barca

    Total:
    Starters: 8 players
    Starters who made it through Barca: only 5 (Pique, Fabregas and Thiago had to leave a club)
    NT players who didn't make it here: 57
    Players who weren't NT players and didn't turn into starters + foreigners: 26

    Players who made it from Barca B to Barca starting 11 through Barca: 5
    Total number of Barca B prospects in the last 20 years who played for Barca and NT teams (all players mentioned above): 91

    So, what do stats say?
    What is a chance for the highest rated Barca B prospects to turn into Barca's starters=8/90=8,9%
    What is a chance for the highest rated Barca B prospects to turn into Barca's starters THROUGH Barca's team, without leaving a club=5/90=5,6%
    What is a chance for the highest rated Barca B players to not turn into players for Barca/Real/Bayern/City=82/90=91%

    From current youngsters:
    Alena 33 youth NT matches
    Oriol 27 youth NT matches
    And a reason why I am sceptical is Riki Puig: with 0 youth NT matches, and he will be 20 in 3 Months.

    For example:
    Xavi 57 youth NT matches
    Gabri 48 youth NT matches
    Iniesta 45
    Thiago 42
    Fabregas 39
    Oriol Romeu 39
    Samper 23
    Trashorras 20
    Santamaria 17
    Carbonell 10
    Sarsanedas 10
    ---------------
    Puig 0 youth NT matches

    People often reply with Busi and Pedro.
    But they were more like exceptions than rules.

    Alena's chances to turn into a starter are around 5%.
    Puig's are even lower due to youth NT matches stats.
    Chances of BOTH Alena and Puig becoming starters are around 2/1000.
    Chances of BOTH Alena, Puig and Oriol becoming starters is around 1/10 000.
    Basically, you need 20 players like Alena, Puig, Oriol, Wague, Abel Ruiz and insert 15 similar players.
    And stats say that ONLY ONE of them will turn into Barca's starter (through Barca's team, not being forced to leave).

    People are replying to me for years: players are not numbers, each player is unique.
    But we are going through the same shit every year:
    BBZ: Bartra won't make it.
    People: you are an idiot. You don't know anything about football.
    Bartra eventually failed.

    BBZ: Halilovic won't make it.
    People: You are a moron.
    Halilovic can't play in any 1st division team 4 years later.

    BBZ: Adama is dumb.
    People: You don't know shit about football.

    BBZ: Samper won't make it.
    People: You are an idiot. Why isn't this idiot already banned from this forum? I can't read his cancerous posts full of negativity.
    Samper probably won't play any 1st division football in his career.

    BBZ: Denise is too light for a modern football and she is probably the weakest player in our rooster.
    People: You are an idiot and you don't know anything about football.
    A few years later: Denise will probably quit professional football and turn into a fashion model.

    I don't even want to mention crazy ideas like Dongou, Sandro Ramirez or Arnaiz (remember when people thought that he could actually be a useful player for Barca and people got mad if anyone questioned that idea )

    Anyway, my point is, majority of people here are too emotional.
    And you are not assessing youth players with objectivity, but with pure emotions and with desperation for new gems and a brighter future.
    I mean, I also want a brighter future, but that won't suddenly turn Puig into a new Iniesta.

    Also, I see that people are mentioning Pep and Klopp all the time.
    But each player's development is a mix of several different factors:
    1. his natural talent (Gumbau won't turn into a new Xavi regardless of playing time and if he is coached by Lucho or Pep. He just sucks. Or Munir/Sandro. Even 10 Peps wouldn't turn them into Barca's level. Or Adama. Who can fix his IQ? No one)
    2. playing time
    3. a good coach
    4. player's IQ, professionalism, work ethic (remember Deulofeu, Halilovic and similar)
    5. injuries
    6. mental strength (Bartra is too soft and scared. Samper is too soft and scared. Bojan has too fragile mentality etc)

    So, some posts sounds as if: if Klopp were here, Alena, Puig, Oriol, Wague, insert any player=would turn into new Xavi and Dani Alves.

    Even Pep used all these players:
    Bojan, Victor Sanchez, Botia, Muniesa, Abraham, Xavi Torres, Fontas, Bartra, Jonathan Dos Santos, Gai Assulin, Soriano, Mino, Sergi Gomez, Andreu Fontas, Montoya, Roberto, Victor Vasquez, Oriol Romeu, Jeffren, Nolito, Riverola, Rafinha, Cuenca, Deulofeu, Tello.

    Pep "discovered" Busi and Pedro (and Pique).
    And still he wasn't able to do too much with other 25 prospects with whom he worked (mentioned above).

    And you guys act as if Pep would turn any semi decent player into a new Sterling.
    Pep worked with 29 youngsters at Barca, 4 of them turned into starter's material (Pique, Busi, Pedro and Thiago).
    And now again, when you sum all stats and numbers, do you guys still think that Pep would improve:
    Puig, Alena, Oriol, Wague.
    Plus: Dembele, Semedo, Arthur, Malcom.

    I mean, Pep is good with some youngsters.
    But you are making it as if he is able to cure every single flaw of every player.
    Pep wasn't able to do too much with Bojan, Tello, Cuenca, Assulin, Montoya, Romeu etc.
    Not to mention that he bought fairly young players like 23 years old Sanchez, 23 years old Chygrynskiy, 24 years old Affelay, 21 years old Caceres.

    So, I don't get that part: some of you claim that ALL of Dembele, Malcom, Arthur, Alena, Puig would improve over Pep.
    And yet Pep couldn't do too much with Bojan, Tello, Montoya, Assulin, Affelay, Chygry, Alexis, Cacares.

    So, revisionism kicked in again.
    Now it sounds as if Pep was turning every average player into a gold.
    He wasn't able to do that even when he was here.
    And he surely wouldn't be able to that with majority of current forum's favorites who are, sadly, insanely overrated by our fans.
    Last edited by BBZ8800; Today at 04:14 PM.

  8. #14303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messigician View Post
    Are you serious? What EV did with youth at Bilbao was superb and he rightfully earned praise for his youth integration and attacking football
    Bilbao had a strict rule about only basque players though.. makes it alot easier to 'give youth a chance'?