Ernesto Valverde - V1

Well the players deserved to be blamed to for some games, but in the end Valverde is just an average coach. I don't think he is that terrible and people are exaggerating a bit but "not that terrible" just isn't enough, he can/will deliver some ok-good results with a strong team but i don't see him be a deciding factor ever. He will always just be the average coach with a strong squad and never the one that gives us an edge like Pep with City or Klopp with Liverpool. People can clearly see the coaches qualities when these teams are playing while Valverde is just there watching and not really helping at all, he is like the Mourinho the last years.

Tbh i don't have an answer who to sign, we need somebody that has the authority to be the boss around our stars that also knows how to handle a top level team in CL AND playing barca-like football. It's already hard enough to find real proven quality coaches but the last part makes it even harder for Barca. So i get behind going another route and trusting coaches that aren't in CL team rotations for years but we do it in a strange way because we seem to value being a former Barca player way too high and just expect them to know how to train it and believing in the style just because they played it years ago. I mean Valverdes Bilbao for example did play good football it's not like it looked completely terrible or wasn't successful for their standard but a lot of teams in Spain play "good" football, i think partly that's just because how the players learn football in Spain.

Some people here really like Sarri and i think he would be an interesting option but there wouldn't be any guarantees there too. Other than that i really have no idea, i personally like Cucu for example but every small club coach is a huge risk after all so it's always tough.

The only one i'm looking forward to is actually Xavi. I know it sounds to good to be true that he will come here as a first team coach and has success but at least he would have huge authority and the fans would love him. Also his interviews about his views on football and what he learned from Pep make you happy because you can really feel how much he believes in our style. Valverde and also Lucho kinda felt like they tried to kinda work with the Barca style but not really and would just abandon it at any given chance by always going defensive when we were leading, just dropping deeper to counter, subbing in extra defenders to park the bus etc and the worst part is it never fucking works because our players aren't used to it. Xavi wouldn't do that, Xavi wouldn't defend a 4-1 vs Roma, Xavi wouldn't counter with 40% possession etc. Don't get me wrong, i know it'll probably not happen too soon and would be risky too but i would love to see a coach that gives me the feeling he truly believes in what he is doing and not that weird "well i'm at Barca so i kinda have to adapt right" attitude. Somebody that actually thinks the Barca style is the way to win. If not we can just abandon it altogether and some people would probably say we already did the last years but in that case Barto should just go all out and not trying to mask it by signing former players because they "fit our style", "know how things work at Barca" etc

Played a shitty 11 and rested players when we have nothing but the unbeaten streak to play for and used even shittier subs than the starting 11. He should have rested players a month back when they needed rest not now.

Never deserved the streak anyway. In a way I am happy this happened or else we would have heard how amazing he is all season next season since we went unbeaten from EV apologists.

Moron needs to be sacked. Its unbelievable that some think he knows anything related to football. He is totally clueless and he has showed that not just yesterday but even in a lot of our lucky wins. He won't change either. He is a midtable coach and if there is one thing we need to get rid of is our fetish to hire ex barca coaches just to show the world what a big family we are and how only an ex barca player can understand us well. This has led us to hiring a lot of bang average coaches and a waste of a lot of seasons.

Neymessi said:

Played a shitty 11 and rested players when we have nothing but the unbeaten streak to play for and used even shittier subs than the starting 11. He should have rested players a month back when they needed rest not now.

Never deserved the streak anyway. In a way I am happy this happened or else we would have heard how amazing he is all season next season since we went unbeaten from EV apologists.

Moron needs to be sacked. Its unbelievable that some think he knows anything related to football. He is totally clueless and he has showed that not just yesterday but even in a lot of our lucky wins. He won't change either. He is a midtable coach and if there is one thing we need to get rid of is our fetish to hire ex barca coaches just to show the world what a big family we are and how only an ex barca player can understand us well. This has led us to hiring a lot of bang average coaches and a waste of a lot of seasons.

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+1

With him we lost our style our identity it became so painful to watch and get owned and humiliated by a small teams and to play so ugly throughout the whole season.
He scarfed the CL for the Cup and the undefeated liga burnt out the same 11 players all season in some easy game when he could rotated, than he decided to throw all this away for a stupid friendly .
even I can do a better job than this clone.

This team lost its identity after Tito stepped down for the last time. Lucho's plan to change the dynamic up was interesting and could have worked long-term, but the execution was awful with his signings and Neymar deciding he want to play more on the ball than off it after the treble season.

I didn't see the game what happenen men?!, How do you score 4 away goals & lose?.

Did he switch back to the 442?

We deserved to lose if we concede 5 goals but what happened

jamrock said:

I didn't see the game what happenen men?!, How do you score 4 away goals & lose?.

Did he switch back to the 442?

We deserved to lose if we concede 5 goals but what happened

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No need to watch the game if you already watched the Supercopa, Sevilla away or Roma away. Exact same game only played with a weaker line-up.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if we get hammered quite a few times next season, topped off with historic humiliation beating in the CL.

When things go wrong for EV, they go catastrophically wrong.

This club is just huddled with internal problems from top to bottom. Until we remove them, it's likely the club will continue to spend millions and millions and all of them will still "fail" at Barca. Our young talents being ignored while they could be thriving under the Barca systems.

The games I'm watching, dont look any one bit like a Barca team and worst of all, a coach who cant be bothered to develop or utilise the talent we have or have a clue what the players should be doing on the pitch. Whether is it possession or quick attacking play, it just seems a mess. He doesnt have any inkling of what or who the problem is, and literally said this after the Roma game "This lineup won us 4-1 so I went with this lineup."

Honestly who has he developed this season other than constantly using Coutinho on the right?

I wont be surprised if he continues to use Suarez as a heavy starter next season, and use Griezmann as a RW. Basically every new signing for him is right side wide player due to his inabiity to drop Suarez. (Vidal, Deulofeu, Coutinho, Gomes, Paulinho).

Would probably ditch Dembele again because he is "defensively poor" but never Suarez or Rakitic.

And people trusts this guy to develop talents and even said he developed Busquets and Rakitic lol.

It will be his last season next year, and would love to watch another entertaining shit show again.

Imo, it is not a problem with Valverde.
Fine, he is not good.

But our club in general lacks direction.
Since the 90's, the only good eras in our club were when a coach stayed longer and when HE did WHATEVER he wanted regarding tactics, rooster and transfers.

1. in early 90's, Cruijff was here for 8 seasons.
In 8 seasons, he implemented his tactics and built a team around his tactics (bought a type of players whom he liked).
2. Van Gaal, in late 90's. 3 seasons.
Implemented his tactics and bought 10s of new players.
We didn't win a CL, but we were very good back then.
3. Rijkaard in 00's. Stayed 5 seasons.
He sold 17 players from our former rooster of in the first 12 Months in charge (Bonano, Reiziger, F. De Boer, Andersson, Saviola, Cocu, Kluivert, Riquelme, Overmars, Christanval, Gerard Lopez, Rochemback, Mendieta, Dani Garcia, Sorin, Luis Enrique, Enke).
Today, that would mean selling: Cillessen, Vermaelen, Mina, Digne, Semedo, Samper, Gomes, Denis, Rafinha, Paco, Vidal, Luis etc.
Basically, he wasn't emotional towards NO ONE and we sold or fired ALL dead wood and all older players.
He kept only young players like Valdes, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Motta and bought a completely new team with 7-8 new players in the next 2 summers.
So, Rijkaard also got rid of all dead wood, bought exactly a type of players whom he wanted for his system and then implemented HIS system with the exact type of players whom he wanted plus all players were hungry for success and motivated.
4. Pep, 4 seasons.
Something similar to Rijkaard and Van Gaal.
He sold/fired half of the former teams, bought some new guys whom he liked and promoted some new kids.
And implemented his system.

Now, let's go back to Valverde and current coaches.
He can't fire Messi (ok, nobody would fire Messi).
He can't fire Suarez. Well, a lot of us would sell Suarez.
He can't sell Busquets, which a lot of us would do.
He can't sell Rakitic, the same.
He had to play granny Iniesta all time.
Board bought Dembele and Coutinho and I doubt that anyone asked him about those 2 guys.
EV surely dislikes Dembele and he doesn't fit to his style of football.
Also, dead wood like Digne, Gomes, Denis, Rafinha, Paco, Vermaelen, Vidal.
It seems that a current board didn't want to sell them right away.

On the other hand, Pep got rid of Ronaldinho, Etoo, Deco, our 3 key players back then.
Can EV get rid of anyone?
No.
Today, if you say that Iniesta can't play anymore, people will tell you that you are an idiot.
if you tell the same about Busi, you are ungrateful etc.

So, in the current era, the board doesn't have any direction:
1. will we follow Pep's ideas forever?
Or will we turn a new page with some different tactics?
2. will we continue to buy short, technical players?
Or will we try something new?
3. can a coach sell some of players whom he don't like? (Probably no)
4. Should we keep old, drained players like Luis, Iniesta, Busi, Pique?
Or turn the page and start with younger, hungrier players?
5. in terms of transfers, should we turn to youngsters or to older players?
6. should we build a team for short-term, like for the next 1-2 seasons?
Or for longterm?

Basically, if any member of this forum will try to answer any of my questions, you will find out that we don't have any direction.
I don't know the answer on any of these questions, except a number 3 (a coach can't sell players whom he dislikes).

So, in the current era, even Van Gaal, Rijkaard or Pep wouldn't do too much imo.
Since they are not allowed to buy players whom they want and they are not allowed to sell players whom they don't need.

So, our current story is:
1. Barto wants some star players to sell shirts and to get more fans
2. Robert wants other players whom he likes
3. EV has totally different ideas than Barto and Robert
4. and then you have a locker room full of overpaid old superstars like Messi, Luis, Busi, Iniesta, Raki, even Roberto.
They have their "clans", they have players whom they like and dislike etc.

So, basically we have 4 factors in our club and each factor wants different things/tactics/players: Barto, Robert, EV, leaders among players (Messi, Luis, Iniesta, Busi etc).

So, if you guys want a new coach, you need to give him a free role to sell whomever he wants.
If he wants to sell Dembele, fine.
If he wants to sell Luis, Busi, xx, fine.

Once again, Rijkaard sold 17 (!!) players in the first 12 Months: Bonano, Reiziger, F. De Boer, Andersson, Saviola, Cocu, Kluivert, Riquelme, Overmars, Christanval, Gerard Lopez, Rochemback, Mendieta, Dani Garcia, Sorin, Luis Enrique, Enke
Old players, some young gems (Saviola, Rochemback, Christanval), some club's legends, lots of foreigners.
In his first summer he bought Quaresma (he is Dembele/Semedo from that era) and sold him after 12 Months to buy some better fit.

So, Van Gaal, Rijkaard and Pep weren't emotional and attached to certain players.
That is the only way to move forward and to succeed.
On the other hand, look at our forum:
Semedo, oh no, we can't sell him!
Mina, oh no, give a guy more chances!
Busi, oh no, he is a club's legend!
Raki, oh no...
Suarez, oh no, he is still one of the best!
Dembele, no way, are you crazy? He is our future!

If we would listen to our forum, we would sell nobody except obvious choices like Vidal, Gomes, Denis, Paco and MAYBE Suarez.
If we'll be too emotional, we'll be stuck in the same place for 5 more years.

I am not even a barto defender like jamdav but what even is the boards fault in this particular case?

I remember back then when buying a defender was like the biggest dream of barca fans but the board never bought anyone and they deserved all the hate and criticism but this time they made funds available and bought dembele, coutinhio and have tried their best to replace neymar well and given EV a world class squad but EV routinely keeps fucking shit up with his crappy lineups and decisions. Its not the boards fault that EV parks the bus after a 4-1 lead and after going 3-0 down, subs gomes in for iniesta. LOL.

BBZ8800 said:

Imo, it is not a problem with Valverde.

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So it's not EV's problem we play without a proper football system, or key players (Suarez, Rakitic, Umtiti, Pique, Alba, Busi) all look out of shape and performances have regressed significantly or that our players display the mentality of kittens and walk around with their heads down when things don't go the right way.

Please explain what exactly EV's job is if he if it's not his fault our players look tactically, physically and mentally abysmal?

We didn't play without a system back in December. No matter what you think about the system.

BBZ8800 said:

Today, that would mean selling: Cillessen...
He can't sell Busquets, which a lot of us would do.

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We don't even deserve to have someone as good as Cillessen as backup.
And who are these people who want to sell Busquets, easily the best DM in the world? Some 12 year olds overreating after a shoker? In a right system, aka in WC in a month, everyone again will be talking how good he is.

Devils said:

So it's not EV's problem we play without a proper football system, or key players (Suarez, Rakitic, Umtiti, Pique, Alba, Busi) all look out of shape and performances have regressed significantly or that our players display the mentality of kittens and walk around with their heads down when things don't go the right way.

Please explain what exactly EV's job is if he if it's not his fault our players look tactically, physically and mentally abysmal?

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Ok, we all agree that EV is not that good.
But, the funny thing is, when EV played "his style of football", 442 with Iniesta-Rakitic-Busquets-Paulinho, we were winning 1:0 and 2:0 all the time and we conceded 1 goal in 3-4 matches.
When EV turned closer to Barca's style (for his standards), our results started to look 5:1 and 1:5, more or less.

So, from ugly&defensive football with good results we turned into a team which can score and concede 4 goals in every match.

I am not saying that either EV's version is good, but the first half of a season with 442 and workhorses was way better.

But this is what I talked about in my previous, long post.
EV obviously had to listen fans and the board and he was forced to play "nicer" with Coutinho, Dembele, Semedo.

Don't jump now and reply: so, are you saying that we are losing because of Dembele, Coutinho and others?
No.

All I am saying is that EV is obviuosly more comfortable in defensive football.
He doesn't know what is he doing when he is forced to play more attacking.

Then you'll reply: this is why we need a coach who knows how to play attacking football.
But then, again go back to my previous post: that coach will again have to play with board's players, players from the old coach, old drained players etc.

Ev is bad, but there are so many other problems in our team also.
And imo, if he will stay, I would rather watch 442 and 1:0 results than 5:1 and 1:5 matches from the last few weeks.

clemente said:

We don't even deserve to have someone as good as Cillessen as backup.
And who are these people who want to sell Busquets, easily the best DM in the world? Some 12 year olds overreating after a shoker? In a right system, aka in WC in a month, everyone again will be talking how good he is.

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He is the best CDM in the world only if you play 433 and have Xavi and Iniesta around him.
I guess that we will see tons of counters behind Busi's back at a World cup then...

clemente said:

We don't even deserve to have someone as good as Cillessen as backup.
And who are these people who want to sell Busquets, easily the best DM in the world? Some 12 year olds overreating after a shoker? In a right system, aka in WC in a month, everyone again will be talking how good he is.

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What kind of rubbish you spouting now about 'not deserving Cillensen as back up'?

BBZ8800 said:

Ok, we all agree that EV is not that good.
But, the funny thing is, when EV played "his style of football", 442 with Iniesta-Rakitic-Busquets-Paulinho, we were winning 1:0 and 2:0 all the time and we conceded 1 goal in 3-4 matches.
When EV turned closer to Barca's style (for his standards), our results started to look 5:1 and 1:5, more or less.

So, from ugly&defensive football with good results we turned into a team which can score and concede 4 goals in every match.

I am not saying that either EV's version is good, but the first half of a season with 442 and workhorses was way better.

But this is what I talked about in my previous, long post.
EV obviously had to listen fans and the board and he was forced to play "nicer" with Coutinho, Dembele, Semedo.

Don't jump now and reply: so, are you saying that we are losing because of Dembele, Coutinho and others?
No.

All I am saying is that EV is obviuosly more comfortable in defensive football.
He doesn't know what is he doing when he is forced to play more attacking.

Then you'll reply: this is why we need a coach who knows how to play attacking football.
But then, again go back to my previous post: that coach will again have to play with board's players, players from the old coach, old drained players etc.

Ev is bad, but there are so many other problems in our team also.
And imo, if he will stay, I would rather watch 442 and 1:0 results than 5:1 and 1:5 matches from the last few weeks.



He is the best CDM in the world only if you play 433 and have Xavi and Iniesta around him.
I guess that we will see tons of counters behind Busi's back at a World cup then...

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Problem is with Suarez, it always has been. No matter what style u play, 442, 433, he is a liability at the front. Most of our attacks stagnate at Suarez.

We played a 442 at Roma and still got hammered, we simply failed to attack with a 442 and was outplayed in every way possible.

My solution is get rid of Suarez and put in Griezmann. Even if it's a 442, you need to have Griezmann and Messi upfront, and Coutinho and Dembele at LM and RM respectively. Suarez, as much as a brilliant striker he is, just simply doesnt offer much anymore, he fails to make anything when he receives passes and often loses possession. Above all, he is very slow.