Ernesto Valverde - V1

M

MessiCam

Guest
Joan Laporta said:
You are talking about starting 11 and others about resting Iniesta.

Even then, 442 can work with wings.
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They're talking about Coutinho being brought in to play in midfield when Iniesta is rested. In my opinion Coutinho is not a central midfielder and other than Gomes there is no other option in that position unless you promote Alena.

Sure you could play 4-4-2 with wings but then you're left with 2 central midfielders, the pivots. You can't play possession, passing football with 2 in midfield. The 4-4-2 will work only if played like earlier in the season when the 4 man midfield was flooded with CM's 2 of which were workhorses, sometimes 3. But if that's the case why were Coutinho and Dembele even signed?

It's pretty obvious at this stage that this team is going to play 4-3-3.
 
Barcaman

Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
Valverde should focus on rationing our strength and not wasting time on integrating Coutinho with Iniesta. That should be done next season (if at all).

Just stick to 4-4-2 please.
 
MagIX

MagIX

Senior Member
We are in february, we are entering in the decisive period of the season, in the most key months of the season (feb-mai), where you have to be in shape and everything must work very very well. There is not room and time for experimenting with new formations. So far, with this 4-4-2 we are dominating, we cannot ruin everything now. New systems, new formations, new tactics need time,they are improved week by week, time is needed to refine the system and make everything work. The current system is not the result of improvisation, but of weeks and months of hard work. We cannot change everything right now, it's unconscious.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
MagIX said:
We are in february, we are entering in the decisive period of the season, in the most key months of the season (feb-mai), where you have to be in shape and everything must work very very well. There is not room and time for experimenting with new formations. So far, with this 4-4-2 we are dominating, we cannot ruin everything now. New systems, new formations, new tactics need time,they are improved week by week, time is needed to refine the system and make everything work. The current system is not the result of improvisation, but of weeks and months of hard work. We cannot change everything right now, it's unconscious.
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Then you can't complain that Iniesta plays every week. It also begs the question why was Coutinho signed in January then? Could have got him cheaper if the deal was struck for the summer.
 
vlad

vlad

New member
MessiCam said:
Then you can't complain that Iniesta plays every week. It also begs the question why was Coutinho signed in January then? Could have got him cheaper if the deal was struck for the summer.
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Coutinho needs time to adapt, im sure iniesta will rest more then
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
vlad said:
Coutinho needs time to adapt, im sure iniesta will rest more then
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Valverde doesn't consider Coutinho to be a midfielder and neither do I. He stressed that they could play together and it appears he wants them to play together. Coutinho in attack and Iniesta in midfield.

We've been talking about this since the Alaves game. 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 with both Coutinho and Iniesta leaves us short in terms of central midfielders so you have 2 options... Play the 4-4-2 as earlier in the season and let Coutinho and Dembele rot on the bench or play 4-3-3. If and when both Suarez and Messi play its an asymmetrical 4-3-3 False 9.

With the players we have, the only way this side finds balance is with 4-4-2 packed with CM's, 4-3-3 with one of Messi or Suarez (no balance if both play) or 3-3-1-3 (everybody plays - Iniesta, Messi, Coutinho, Suarez and Dembele).
 
Alik

Alik

Moderator
MessiCam said:
Then you can't complain that Iniesta plays every week. It also begs the question why was Coutinho signed in January then? Could have got him cheaper if the deal was struck for the summer.
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If Coutinho was signed to play along Iniesta, then that begs the question of why he was signed now. They won't be able to play alongside each other in CL.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
Alik said:
If Coutinho was signed to play along Iniesta, then that begs the question of why he was signed now. They won't be able to play alongside each other in CL.
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That he can't play alongside Iniesta in the Champions League was a given. He was never brought in to be a relief player for Iniesta... You don't spend 160 Million inclusive of variables on a relief player when it would have been cheaper to wait until the summer. Iniesta has also said that Coutinho's signing was not as a replacement for him.

I think you guys are forgetting that 4-3-3 was always the plan with Dembele's signing. The 4-4-2 came about as a matter of circumstance due to his injury and Deulofeu not coming to the party. The minute Dembele was fit after the first injury images started popping up of the 4-3-3 False 9 in training.

9CC08BF0-44BD-436A-969A-35E39B6DDD30.jpg

I don't know whether a switch to the 4-3-3 is going to be more successful than sticking to the 4-4-2. But the 4-4-2 is only going to work if stacked with CM's. Meaning Dembele and Coutinho will play very small roles. Seems an awful waste of money though.
 
Alik

Alik

Moderator
MessiCam said:
That he can't play alongside Iniesta in the Champions League was a given. He was never brought in to be a relief player for Iniesta... You don't spend 160 Million inclusive of variables on a relief player when it would have been cheaper to wait until the summer.
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Why would it have been cheaper?

Essentially, Coutinho is a relief player because the only competitions in which he can play are the ones which we should be able to win without him comfortably anyway.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
Alik said:
Why would it have been cheaper?

Essentially, Coutinho is a relief player because the only competitions in which he can play are the ones which we should be able to win without him comfortably anyway.
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Because he is not leaving in the middle of a season. January transfers are always more expensive...

I'm also glad you think that La Liga and the Copa should be comfortable wins. Difference in La Liga is now down to 9 points with 16 games to play and 5 tricky fixtures.

That people thought Coutinho was going to bench Iniesta for the sake of the Champions League is laughable. The league is still top priority and Iniesta and Messi are still the best players on the field week in week out. And it's not even close.
 
Alik

Alik

Moderator
MessiCam said:
Because he is not leaving in the middle of a season. January transfers are always more expensive...
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Not in a world cup season, and not with current rate of inflation. Each transfer season, transfer prices are pushed up further due to the activities of other clubs.

MessiCam said:
I'm also glad you think that La Liga and the Copa should be comfortable wins. Difference in La Liga is now down to 9 points with 16 games to play and 5 tricky fixtures.
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Down to 9 points, from 11. That's the point of having a gap. Whether we win the league by 1 point or by 20 it doesn't matter. We have tricky fixtures, so does Atletico. You have to be really pessimistic to think you need to bring a 140M player because you're afraid of losing a 10 point gap without him.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
Alik said:
Not in a world cup season, and not with current rate of inflation. Each transfer season, transfer prices are pushed up further due to the activities of other clubs.
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Are you really going to sit there and tell me that doing a deal in January for a July transfer would be more expensive?

Down to 9 points, from 11. That's the point of having a gap. Whether we win the league by 1 point or by 20 it doesn't matter. We have tricky fixtures, so does Atletico. You have to be really pessimistic to think you need to bring a 140M player because you're afraid of losing a 10 point gap without him.
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Who said anything about bringing him in due to fear of losing a point gap.

It is my contention that he was brought in to offer something different in attack and not as a relief player for Iniesta.
 
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Alik

Alik

Moderator
MessiCam said:
Are you really going to sit there and tell me that doing a deal in January for a July transfer would be more expensive?
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I said waiting to do a deal this summer is more expensive. Yeah, if we had managed to close a deal in January for July, it would be cheaper.

MessiCam said:
Who said anything about bringing him in due to fear of losing a point gap.

It is my contention that he was brought in to offer something different in attack and not as a relief player for Iniesta.
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Why would we need to something different in attack, if what we had been doing was working just fine?
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
Alik said:
I said waiting to do a deal this summer is more expensive. Yeah, if we had managed to close a deal in January for July, it would be cheaper.
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It was an option.


Why would we need to something different in attack, if what we had been doing was working just fine?
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Because we’re light on world class quality forward wide players. Despite what many here think he is not a CM even though he can play in the position. He is too attacking for that. Valverde, it appears, is going to some length to play both him and Iniesta so I think it’s abundantly clear that he is not there to pick up the slack for Iniesta to rest.

I don’t know. That he has played in attack seems to have the 4-4-2 brigade up in arms despite the 4-4-2 only ever being a makeshift solution.
 
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