xXKonan
Senior Member
If you want to fix the first problem with us being slow with the ball, you also need to fix the off the ball movement as well.
I have no idea why Valverde hasn't fixed this issue at all. We have players who thrive off movement but there just isn't enough to make them more effective. Guys like Coutinho, Arthur, Dembele etc thrive off that shit and same with guys like De Jong.
I remember people arguing during the early stages of this season why Arthur was too reluctant to make a forward pass through the lines and one of the biggest reasons why was because of the front line was not moving enough to do that.
I have no idea why Valverde hasn't fixed this issue at all. We have players who thrive off movement but there just isn't enough to make them more effective. Guys like Coutinho, Arthur, Dembele etc thrive off that shit and same with guys like De Jong.
I remember people arguing during the early stages of this season why Arthur was too reluctant to make a forward pass through the lines and one of the biggest reasons why was because of the front line was not moving enough to do that.
Apart of the problem is that we lack players in peak age 26-28. They are either past it or too young. Only ter Stegen is in his peak. Even though Alba is 30 he is still there but he has elite stamina. Coutinho should be there but something isn’t working.
Rakitic, Piqué, Busquets, Suárez and Vidal are past it. Even Messi is slowly declining.
Dembele, Arthur and Alena is quality but they can’t win you CHL’s yet.
These days peak players are too expensive so we have to buy them young and wait. But I think it’s the part of the problem.
Rakitic, Piqué, Busquets, Suárez and Vidal are past it. Even Messi is slowly declining.
Dembele, Arthur and Alena is quality but they can’t win you CHL’s yet.
These days peak players are too expensive so we have to buy them young and wait. But I think it’s the part of the problem.
Givenchy
Senior Member
EV is either stupid af or a slave to the seniors, i think it could be a mixture of both but looking at his time in Bilbao, more the latter.
in defence of Ernie, it seems the board don't do well consulting him on who they buy. I doubt Coutinho was on EVs wishlist and Malcom we know certainly wasnt. the board can pull off these 'exciting' transfers but they leave the manager trying to fit them all in a line up/formation that CANNOT be changed because we have entitled players Messi-Suarez who must play every game they are available despite age/needing rest.
EV wanted Willian and yes hes not Barca quality but the board have to realize the manager is the one observing the team so he should know best regarding what we actually need. now we are left with Messi at RW, Dembele's favoured position is RW, Malcom prefers RW and no natural LW.. so we have to waste Dembele there, Willian atleast imo would of been more capable of playing LW than say Coutinho or Malcom.
the result in all this is 160mil Coutinho on the bench, 120mil Dembele not playing in his favoured position and Messi a false RW all over the pitch. the right side with Bob has no natural RB with no support from a RW cause Messi is absent. Semedo was getting slated for passing back and not attacking enough until we saw him on that rightside combo with Dembele at RW.
the question is; where do we play Messi? ST? we lose alot of his playmaking ability. false 9? exposed. midfield? not enough work rate. RW? drifts central/drops deep. LW? cant cut inside.. seriously where do we actually play him that benefits the TEAM and not Messi individually?
in defence of Ernie, it seems the board don't do well consulting him on who they buy. I doubt Coutinho was on EVs wishlist and Malcom we know certainly wasnt. the board can pull off these 'exciting' transfers but they leave the manager trying to fit them all in a line up/formation that CANNOT be changed because we have entitled players Messi-Suarez who must play every game they are available despite age/needing rest.
EV wanted Willian and yes hes not Barca quality but the board have to realize the manager is the one observing the team so he should know best regarding what we actually need. now we are left with Messi at RW, Dembele's favoured position is RW, Malcom prefers RW and no natural LW.. so we have to waste Dembele there, Willian atleast imo would of been more capable of playing LW than say Coutinho or Malcom.
the result in all this is 160mil Coutinho on the bench, 120mil Dembele not playing in his favoured position and Messi a false RW all over the pitch. the right side with Bob has no natural RB with no support from a RW cause Messi is absent. Semedo was getting slated for passing back and not attacking enough until we saw him on that rightside combo with Dembele at RW.
the question is; where do we play Messi? ST? we lose alot of his playmaking ability. false 9? exposed. midfield? not enough work rate. RW? drifts central/drops deep. LW? cant cut inside.. seriously where do we actually play him that benefits the TEAM and not Messi individually?
soul24rage
Senior Member
love that quote from Pique
soul24rage
Senior Member
What do you mean by playing false 9, exposed?
henias
New member
I doubt so, first off a gameplan, direction and specific roles would largely attenuate this tendency. Without that, players would just be depending on Messi, including the manager himself. That's no way to run a team. I still believe a false 9 with Messi is the best option, BUT only under proper coordination and execution.
El Gato
Villarato!
Good stuff from [MENTION=22349]Givenchy[/MENTION]. Few notes.
Don't think Malcom would be that bothered, but he is young, so yes, you'd rather avoid going there. I'd probably just give that flank to Alba and play asymmetric.
Yep.
3 solutions: a) change manager in hope he is more forceful with the seniors as per Lucho; b) move Suarez on, Messi ST, play Coutinho at CAM/LAM behind him; c) false 9 status quo, kinda what it is now, caters to Messi's free role contributing to his bad habits.
I mean, most people see it now and none of it is new. It's only a camp battle now. But they're not going to go with the fans wishes because fans are fickle and know little of who gets on with who and why, it's what keeps the team happy that will be prioritised. You guys can bitch and moan, threaten to riot, turn TVs off.. but if the team brings a trophy in playing this style then it keeps a stable contingent of fans still creating club's revenue.
Eventually moods of players will swing, but right now all is content in that comfort zone.
Don't think Malcom would be that bothered, but he is young, so yes, you'd rather avoid going there. I'd probably just give that flank to Alba and play asymmetric.
Yep.
3 solutions: a) change manager in hope he is more forceful with the seniors as per Lucho; b) move Suarez on, Messi ST, play Coutinho at CAM/LAM behind him; c) false 9 status quo, kinda what it is now, caters to Messi's free role contributing to his bad habits.
I mean, most people see it now and none of it is new. It's only a camp battle now. But they're not going to go with the fans wishes because fans are fickle and know little of who gets on with who and why, it's what keeps the team happy that will be prioritised. You guys can bitch and moan, threaten to riot, turn TVs off.. but if the team brings a trophy in playing this style then it keeps a stable contingent of fans still creating club's revenue.
Eventually moods of players will swing, but right now all is content in that comfort zone.
Givenchy
Senior Member
probably should of used a different word than exposed but problem with false 9 - we don't have any goal scoring type wingers such as David Villa and Pedro.. Dembele isn't clinical enough.. yet, Suarez shouldn't even play let alone on the wing and Malcom we've all seen his 1 on 1s. it might of worked had we kept Neymar but the board totally overlooked this situation
right now though im all for trying false 9 with Malcom-Messi-Dembele
[MENTION=5226]Wolfe[/MENTION]
Alba is pretty brainless at times and only has eyes for Messi, i've seen him totally ignore other players in great positions so he can attempt a ridiculous pass to Messi. giving him more prominance will only lead to him trying to feed Messi more
i feel like we need either a Zidane type manager who commands respect (too bad Xavi isn't ready) to steady the ship and get the best we can out of what we have left from the golden gen or we need a clearout which is unrealistic right now.
moving Suarez on wont be easy either esp his reputation and friendship with Leo. you can see it in Messi's play trying to set up his buddy while Rakitic is in the better position. doing that type of shit in the CL will cost us dearly
anyways fellow cules, my post wasn't to bash Leo. if he decides to turn up anything is possible even in this mess of a system
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soul24rage
Senior Member
ah I see. I agree with what you said and I also think that Dembele-Messi-Malcom frontline should be tried (I actually have been saying this since the beg. of the season).
I think that frontline could work with Arthur-Busi-Vidal as the mid trio. Whenever Messi drops deep, Vidal can move up to provide a physical presence so he's doing a similar role to what Suarez is doing right now. I think this whole Messi false RW is tactically hurting the team.
El Gato
Villarato!
Aye.
This isn't bashing Leo either. At some point you just got to be honest with yourself. Ronaldo also lost a step at ~29-30, then got stuck to the middle and refocused. Evolution happens to nearly every inside forward. Just got to move with it. Suarez should be first to go. It's natural. Been obvious enough for a while. And it's probably partly a reason why the Griezmann deal didn't make sense to either party, too much going into the middle.
This isn't bashing Leo either. At some point you just got to be honest with yourself. Ronaldo also lost a step at ~29-30, then got stuck to the middle and refocused. Evolution happens to nearly every inside forward. Just got to move with it. Suarez should be first to go. It's natural. Been obvious enough for a while. And it's probably partly a reason why the Griezmann deal didn't make sense to either party, too much going into the middle.
SeloBarca
Senior Member
Been saying the same thing.
Watched Citys game the other day (not the cup one) and immediatly noticed the off the ball preasure and movent we used to have with Pep, but has been absent ever since.
(Also in the Ajax game)
The tenacity of the ball was just as big part as the passing game during the prime days. Now, we have neither and rather look like RM did 6-7 years ago relying on counterattacks.
serghei
Senior Member
Pique ringing the alarms bells instead of his clueless manager. It's the manager's job to say that. You hear managers all the time being critical in the media when the game is not working. Even this common job has to be done by a player instead, because clown Valverde just doesn't do anything. All he is is a driftwood about to be hit badly when a serious waves comes up.
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