Ernesto Valverde - V1

MessiCam said:

May I ask what he has corrected? It’s been 4 consecutive league games that we’ve been shit.

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He almost always get his subs right and changes the game to our favour, from the bench. That means that something was wrong/not working from the start, but it wins us the game in the end.

He is very aware that for example the Eibar-game wasn't great, and said afterwards that Eibar dominated too much. That is quite an admission, compared to for example Zidane who after the PSG-game said RM played well from start to end even though everyone could see that wasn't true. I would be more worried if he said things like that.

To be perfectly honest, I don't expect Barca to dominate and win deservedly in every league match. To win and keep distance to Atletico is key, and he has done that this weekend once again, and therefore things are not dire in any way.

Who have we played?
- Espanyol our neighbouring-rivals who always give 200% against us - that wasn't a game where we could expect to dominate or play brilliantly, even less so when we faced them in Copa for two games in the same period. The field was a swimming-pool and key players was rested to beat season-surprise Valencia in Copa afterwards.
- Getafe who has drawn with Sevilla and Valencia in this recent period, so by no means an easy opponent right now - not another guaranteed 3 points. A totally new CB-pair didn't help as well.
- Alaves - bad game, but while resting important fullbacks for the first half, which showed. Coutinho a bit underwhelming, something we won't expect from now on.

So all in all: Most bad performances can be explained away. If we didn't prioritize Copa del Rey at all we would have played better and got a few more points. Instead we have a record-unbeaten-run of games and some new players with a bit of playing time, which will help the team playing better with these players in the future (Coutinho and Mina especially).

BarçaBarça said:

He almost always get his subs right and changes the game to our favour, from the bench. That means that something was wrong/not working from the start, but it wins us the game in the end.

He is very aware that for example the Eibar-game wasn't great, and said afterwards that Eibar dominated too much. That is quite an admission, compared to for example Zidane who after the PSG-game said RM played well from start to end even though everyone could see that wasn't true. I would be more worried if he said things like that.

To be perfectly honest, I don't expect Barca to dominate and win deservedly in every league match. To win and keep distance to Atletico is key, and he has done that this weekend once again, and therefore things are not dire in any way.

Who have we played?
- Espanyol our neighbouring-rivals who always give 200% against us - that wasn't a game where we could expect to dominate or play brilliantly, even less so when we faced them in Copa for two games in the same period. The field was a swimming-pool and key players was rested to beat season-surprise Valencia in Copa afterwards.
- Getafe who has drawn with Sevilla and Valencia in this recent period, so by no means an easy opponent right now - not another guaranteed 3 points. A totally new CB-pair didn't help as well.
- Alaves - bad game, but while resting important fullbacks for the first half, which showed. Coutinho a bit underwhelming, something we won't expect from now on.

So all in all: Most bad performances can be explained away. If we didn't prioritize Copa del Rey at all we would have played better and got a few more points. Instead we have a record-unbeaten-run of games and some new players with a bit of playing time, which will help the team playing better with these players in the future (Coutinho and Mina especially).

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But these are things that go without saying. More importantly is why we’re still having trouble creating opportunities and dominating the midfield. If it weren’t for Messi basically playing in midfield yesterday we would have been overrun.

The best I’ve seen Barça play all year was that first leg against Valencia. They were relentless. Where is that Barça?

What we’re doing now is prioritising defensive shape over having a go at the opposition. That is not who we are and how we play. If it were one or two games I could understand but we’re consistently crap lately and it doesn’t matter who is on the field.

Valverde is getting a free pass because he is scraping results. It was the same earlier in the season.

BarçaBarça said:

The debate about not resting key players is warranted, as we have seen that could be decisive in the CL for example in the last couple of years.
If he manage to go past Chelsea, we don't have much to criticize him for, tbh. Every new manager gets the chance to do it his way, and if he listened to barcaforum Paulinho wouldn't get 1 minute this autumn, and so on - we need to trust him.

This game he rested Iniesta for the last 30 minutes after a whole week off - maybe he has got fitness-stats or advice that say that would suffice, then it is clever to follow that advice.
In terms of Messi: Falling out with your greatest star 3 days before a big game is also dangerous, so therefore not resting him in this game could be wise as well.
If Dembele should have played instead of Suarez is another question, where I believe it would have made sense to play Dembele.

All he has shown so far is great decisions or willingness to correct his mistakes when they happen - that shows something far different from the stubbornness of earlier coaches, and therefore we should trust Valverdes decisions and plans, for now

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Always a risk for injury. The game against Espanyol was no excuse, it's dangerous to play Iniesta, let alone the full 90 minute game.

I have no problem with the game Eibar resting 30 min and a week off. But the previous games were poorly planned, Copa is one thing but the league we have a cushion and Coutinho. No need to play a full 90 especially after sacrificing him for Copa.

I don't care if there isn't Iniesta in our team but Iniesta is one of our most important player and knowing how fragile Iniesta, he should have been planned out more carefully.

Problem is we are plagued with fatigue evidently judging from our drop in form and performance. Even players like Rakitic have been playing too much.

Valverde is just not good in integrating new players. On the offense side he seems pretty clueless right now on how to put the team together.
Imo with the players we have now 4-3-3 should be the prefered formation.
If i got it right we played 4-4-2 vs Eibar and u could clearly see how uncomfortable rakitic and Iniesta were in their roles.
Always playing it the safe way wont work. How should players like coutinho,dembele and semedo be integretated if they dont get enough play time. A few minutes and maybe a 2nd half just wont do it.
They need games from the beginning. But that just my modest opinion...

VV never managed a big club that competes on domestic and continent trophies at the same time, so he needs to learn how to rest certain players before UCL matches. I'm sure he will learn but it might be too late by then.

MessiCam said:

But these are things that go without saying. More importantly is why we’re still having trouble creating opportunities and dominating the midfield. If it weren’t for Messi basically playing in midfield yesterday we would have been overrun.

The best I’ve seen Barça play all year was that first leg against Valencia. They were relentless. Where is that Barça?

What we’re doing now is prioritising defensive shape over having a go at the opposition. That is not who we are and how we play. If it were one or two games I could understand but we’re consistently crap lately and it doesn’t matter who is on the field.

Valverde is getting a free pass because he is scraping results. It was the same earlier in the season.

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So the best game of the season was this month, and yet we play consistently crap right now? Valverde gets doesn't get a free pass: He is criticized as hell because Barca doesn't dominate - yet he is more successful with this squad than anyone could ever believe 6 months ago. Why do we expect Barca to be perfect? Mainly because we have done so incredibly well this autumn despite having catastrophic conditions in pre-season and squad-wise.

What I'm getting at is that during this really impressive run of games it would be completely insane to expect us to be perfect in terms of playing-style, but everyone seems to expect that.

henias said:

Always a risk for injury. The game against Espanyol was no excuse, it's dangerous to play Iniesta, let alone the full 90 minute game.

I have no problem with the game Eibar resting 30 min and a week off. But the previous games were poorly planned, Copa is one thing but the league we have a cushion and Coutinho. No need to play a full 90 especially after sacrificing him for Copa.

I don't care if there isn't Iniesta in our team but Iniesta is one of our most important player and knowing how fragile Iniesta, he should have been planned out more carefully.

Problem is we are plagued with fatigue evidently judging from our drop in form and performance. Even players like Rakitic have been playing too much.

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Yes, Iniesta should be rested more than Valverde has done, I agree. If Coutinho was fit/eased in earlier I'm quite sure he would have played more already and Iniesta would've been rested more. Now we know that Valverde likes to play it safe in terms of known quality in the line-ups, but I also think people just expecting that Coutinho will click right away, and that is/was not a given.

[MENTION=20959]BarçaBarça[/MENTION] what playing style are you referring to? Because under Valverde we don’t have one. It is chaotic. Everybody plays where they want.

Yesterday Rakitic was a pivot as well as wide right player, Iniesta saw very little of the ball, Paulinho was everywhere and nowhere, Busquets was often on the left side of midfield next to Iniesta yesterday and Messi was everywhere and nowhere like Paulinho.

Also, I dont expect Barça to be perfect... At this stage I expect a Barça with a plan.

Can you tell me where Valverde is headed with this squad?

Honest question.

BarçaBarça said:

Yes, Iniesta should be rested more than Valverde has done, I agree. If Coutinho was fit/eased in earlier I'm quite sure he would have played more already and Iniesta would've been rested more. Now we know that Valverde likes to play it safe in terms of known quality in the line-ups, but I also think people just expecting that Coutinho will click right away, and that is/was not a given.

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It's literally only a few games before Chelsea, come on. Espanyol, Getafe as much as people would like to put it to be, aren't that important and we have a league cushion. In the end, we still drew against Getafe who parked a full bus despite playing all our key players, who were all somewhat tired after their Copa match. Energy is important as well so no point playing ur key players with them being tired. Most of them are exhausted after Valencia and Iniesta is the worst hit by fatugue. EV still played him in Espanyol full game under torrential downpour. Absolutely abysmal.

Coutinho isn't some average player when we paid 140 mil. Even Dembele started against Juventus despite him having played only one or two matches.. Coutinho can cover Iniesta as a sub, not even asking Coutinho to play as a starter but Valverde even played them both in a game him as a RM which isnt even his natural position, integrating can be done after Chelsea match or even next season. There's a bigger priority at hand. You can always try to twist and turn and sugercoat the situation but it is really terrible management right there.

MessiCam said:

[MENTION=20959]BarçaBarça[/MENTION] what playing style are you referring to? Because under Valverde we don’t have one. It is chaotic. Everybody plays where they want.

Yesterday Rakitic was a pivot as well as wide right player, Iniesta saw very little of the ball, Paulinho was everywhere and nowhere, Busquets was often on the left side of midfield next to Iniesta yesterday and Messi was everywhere and nowhere like Paulinho.

Also, I dont expect Barça to be perfect... At this stage I expect a Barça with a plan.

Can you tell me where Valverde is headed with this squad?

Honest question.

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No, I can't. Because two vital starting-11 players has just begun to play for this team, and therefore the plan is changing right now.

Up until now, from what I've seen, it looks like he wants to utilize Alba on the left flank a lot more, with Roberto holding a little more back on the right. He also wants more solidity in midfield and usually play Busi-Rakitic-Iniesta together with either Paulinho, Roberto or Gomes, which turns out to get the best out of Busquets and solve a lot of the problems he had last season. That gives more running-capacity, physics and less creativity and technical skills to the midfield, but Valverde seems happy about that as long as Messi can roam free and Suarez can finish the attacks up front.

Result: Europe's second best defence in the top-5 leagues (Atletico are number 1, we are best in CL). That is also something a coach can aim for, but not something that is applauded at all (mostly attacking tactics are applauded in Barca, and fair enough, but defensive ones is not worthless - they can actually win us titles).

No-one knows if Dembele is going to mean more counter-attacking or Coutinho is going to mean more control and tiki-taka in the midfield, that we are going to wait and see.

With the last midfield formation ini-busy-paul-raki i only saw one thing. 2 players completely wasted and deprived of their strenghts...
And on top of that it didnt look very solid or save at all.

serghei said:

What? Real Madrid is 19 points behind in La Liga. They are done like a turkey on Thanksgiving Day in America. They are in a position to give their all in CL because they have done fuck all this season and been humiliated time and time again in La Liga. Failure to compete during most of the season is not 'prioritizing'.

We are going after all titles. Madrid are going only after one. La Liga is always the no1 objective of the season. That has been said by every manager, including Pep several times. Valverde has fucked up, true. Not because he is prioritizing La Liga, but because he's been underplaying some top talented players we have, like Semedo (hugely disappointing how he's managed this player so far), Coutinho since he's been fit, and Dembele lately as well (should have started vs Eibar). Been overplaying Roberto and Iniesta.

We've won La Liga? A loss vs Eibar would've put us at 4 points from Atletico (gonna win today), with both the derbies still left to play. That's everything but a comforting advantage.

Everybody needs to chill out. One Madrid win vs a crap team like PSG from a 2 dime league and everyone goes panic mode. Their great record in CL lately is only matched by their shit record in La Liga. We should start panicking when they find a way to add those two together. That only happened once in almost 30 years. I think our way of handling a season is better. Only by incredible bad luck we didn't win 4 CLs in a row in 2009-12, and 3 CL-Liga doubles.

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The league is important and RM did obviously shit the bed there, but it's near impossible to suggest they were going all out to stay in the CDR. Zidane rotated more than half the team and didn't falter even when they were on track to get KO'd. They simply don't care about CDR and haven't for some years now. Whereas we have EV running Iniesta into the ground during these CDR games even tho we made signings specifically to negate that. For what is basically a mickey mouse cup in the grand scheme of things (with RM not trying at all in the CDR, that's essentially what it has become. Barca should win this with like 50% effort at most).

And our way of handling the season is, IMO, absolutely worse than RM and has been for a while. We've had literally only 1 season out of 6 since Pep left where the team didn't SIGNIFICANTLY lose momentum in the 2nd half of the season. Going gung ho in every single competition and not allocating the energy/effort of our team correctly has had bad effects, this 'treble' obsession has had some part in why we've had so many years where the 2nd half of the season is brought with a tired, unfocused squad.

The hierarchy of competitions should ALWAYS be CL>Liga>>>>>>>CDR. And we're in a good position in the league to not have to try too hard there, if you think this limping Atletico side are a legitimate threat you are kidding yourself, there is almost 0 way they maintain as much consistency as us till May. Their next 5 away trips are Sevilla, Barca, Villarreal, RM, and Sociedad. Fat fucking chance they come out of that with all wins or even close to it, La Liga is pretty much a wrap by practically every objective line of thinking there is.

Not keeping the CL in mind when planning for a season and rotating the squad is 1 surefire way to lose the CL. I'm sorry, but no one thinks La Liga is as prestigious/valuable as the CL. Ronaldo would arguably be 3 Balon D'ors short if that really was the case but it isn't.

It isn't conceding La Liga to rest players for the CL. We shouldn't (and don't) have to have the pedal on the gas 100% of the time in La Liga to maintain our healthy lead, that's just not realistic at all. EV has been absolutely wrong in how he's handled this rotation, and our current form is a clear demonstration of that mistake.

For the stick that Valverde is getting for playing Iniesta and Roberto this weekend, there seems to be a point in his plan too. Considering the fact that we have not exactly been performing very well recently, he had to get the very team that is going to face Chelsea, back into form. And playing the likes of Coutinho and Semedo over the weekend when they are not even available against Chelsea would not let that happen!

Valverde was called a fraud after few matches, then everyone said "lets wait for a big test", crashed juventus 3:0, pulled 0:0 vs juve away without struggling, destroyed real on bernabeu, outplayed valencia on mestalla, turned 2 goals down vs sociedad and took 3 points after 10 years from anoeta, those who called him fraud were silent.

Now, with chelsea ahead, everybody is in panic because of poor display vs eibar, talking how he is poor with rotations, lets wait at least first match vs chelsea and then draw a conclusion how is he handling with players form.

vlad said:

Valverde was called a fraud after few matches, then everyone said "lets wait for a big test", crashed juventus 3:0, pulled 0:0 vs juve away without struggling, destroyed real on bernabeu, outplayed valencia on mestalla, turned 2 goals down vs sociedad and took 3 points after 10 years from anoeta, those who called him fraud were silent.

Now, with chelsea ahead, everybody is in panic because of poor display vs eibar, talking how he is poor with rotations, lets wait at least first match vs chelsea and then draw a conclusion how is he handling with players form.

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+1

Hopefully it’s motivation issues.. average/poor performances against weaker sides.

We’ve performed in all the big tests this season.

I see him as very pragmatic coach. He only asks the minimum needed to win game and is satisfied with that. There have been really rare games, where we have put similar effort in both halves. Vs Eibar, our first half was very good imho, but getting lead most probably made us lose momentum second half. It has happened before as well. Another case is being anonymous first half and putting in second gear in second half.
If we would take only 1st half results, La Liga table would have Madrid leading with 50 points, followed by Villareal with 43 and us with 42, Atletico would have 40 points. In reality, we have 62 points (+20), Atletico has 55 (+15). while Villareal has 38 (-5) and Real 45 (-5).

Also i feel like a lot of people do not really give credit where it is due. Eibar is one of the most dangerous sides in La Liga, Alaves has been excellent after Abelardos introduction. After constant talk of how La Liga mid-table teams would whoop Premier League and other major league mid-table teams asses, I cannot understand why it is almost always our fault, when opposition gives us issues. Getafe actually is the 3rd best defensive team in La Liga with only 21 goals conceded and Espanyol has always been extra motivated against us at home even at their bad seasons. We have had very tough fixtures and add the fact we have played 13 games since January, with several key players having injuries, 2 totally new players arriving, which always interrupts and needs adaptation and 1 player returing from long term injury, I think he has done a bloody good job.