Ernesto Valverde - V1

BarçaBarça said:

Some concerns are legitimate for sure, but moaning about things in a domestic double season is spoiled, and if you don't realize that, then we need to check our privilege as barcafans.
It is all about expectations: I didn't expect a domestic double before this season - I hoped we wouldn't be humiliated by Real, yet here we are, and therefore I thank Valverde.

As many in here I also hope that some of the grandpas of this team like Suarez, and that is why a love the Griezmann-transfer and argued for it all the way. We should also rotate more - I agree, but I'm not for playing half the Barca-B team every once in a while - some of our youngsters get very overrated because they are La Masia. For example people like Denis (some because they think he is La Masia), but as I see it he doesn't have what it takes - Alena has deserved the playing time going forward way more!

That said, there is some rewriting of history going on as well: The Roma game was humiliating, and the missing subs was unforgivable. But at the beginning of the season Valverde actually changed a lot of games through subs in the second half. Even his worst enemies like Paco was given a fair chance at one point, but injuries ruined it. That is why I feel like he can adapt, and with a better squad, better youthplayers (Alena for Denis) and so on, things look brighter next season. Therefore I'm not so pessimistic as most about him, going into the next season.

And as I have said a lot of times: If Liverpool beat Madrid 5-0 in the final, all of a sudden people will look at Valverdes accomplishments this season in a more positive light, and if Real wins, he will get a lot more shit for the Roma game. You know that is true, although it is completely irrational, and therefore we should weigh the criticism a little from time to time, and remember which perspective we are looking from (for example our club after the supercup-trashing or our accomplishments with/without a CL win to Real).

(For the record, I have never criticized Messi when we were underperforming, like you are suggesting.)

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No one is moaning about the double, get your facts straight. The domestic double this season isnt very tough because of Madrid's hiccup this season. We didnt get humialated by Real, but we got thoroughly dominated by Roma, Levante, Sevilla plus very poor to mediocre performances in the second half of the season. Mostly individual brilliances here and there. Real is our rival but they shouldnt be our benchmark, and just because of that Valverde has succeeded all year round and deserve praise?

Expectations is expectations, it is often different from reality, no one expected Real to be so bad at the start as well, but again, you cant use expectations to judge a manager. Our team look like complete desolate shambles and if a coach isnt responsible for the physical and mental state of the team, the tactics, the direction, idea, visionary and I don't what is. Poor management, leadership, lacklustre optimism, tactical ineptness are some of the characteristics of EV. Again, this is completely unrelated to how many trophies we have, if there are, it's clear that they were bound to be very short-lived and cannot be sustainable and a model for a club like FC Barcelona. No one is "spoiled" for that matter as you would claim.

I never said you were the one criticising about Messi, I said people like you would and have came up with all sorts of excuses as absurd as this.

NOW you are hoping for a change in him because of your faith in him but ironically, people like you claim he has no fault at the start and it is ONLY until the Roma game, you claim: "Oh, it's only one mistake, forgive him, he will change next season... maybe he doesnt hate Semedo, Denis because gonna change next season."

No... just no, pure nonsense, the fact that you even acknowledged his mistakes and then twist it saying maybe he is just hiding his true self just for the next season, maybe this, maybe that, is bullshit. The fact that he seemed to "change" because he came under fire after the Roma defeat and start to loosen up a little, but that alone simply doesnt cover up what he did all season, especially late season. It was just atrocious.

henias said:

No one is moaning about the double, get your facts straight. The domestic double this season isnt very tough because of Madrid's hiccup this season. We didnt get humialated by Real, but we got thoroughly dominated by Roma, Levante, Sevilla plus very poor to mediocre performances in the second half of the season. Mostly individual brilliances here and there. Real is our rival but they shouldnt be our benchmark, and just because of that Valverde has succeeded all year round and deserve praise?

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It is just that some has ridiculous high expectations - so when Real wins because of ONLY individual brilliance it is fair game and can be held against our current team/coach, but we should be better and win, get the trophies in the end and do it in the right way too. You can't expect that every season! This season we won in a more dull way than usual, but it is still a win, and the alternative is not a beautiful win, but no win at all (as I see it). Atletico has been great this season, Valencia competed but nevermind that - the league was a walkover

henias said:

Our team look like complete desolate shambles and if a coach isnt responsible for the physical and mental state of the team, the tactics, the direction, idea, visionary and I don't what is. Poor management, leadership, lacklustre optimism, tactical ineptness are some of the characteristics of EV.

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I know you say that it is not about trophies, but I can't take it serious that he is called a tactical fool and has poor management-skill, when no team in the league was able to beat us (besides 1). None of our opponents could beat us, still our manager has no tactical clue at all. Cool story bro. This is all about playing-style and expectations to me, and we are not playing exitingly, but I wouldn't trade a trophy-less season for one developing our playing-style only (most wouldn't but most don't realize it is a choice and want it all).

henias said:

NOW you are hoping for a change in him because of your faith in him but ironically, people like you claim he has no fault at the start and it is ONLY until the Roma game, you claim: "Oh, it's only one mistake, forgive him, he will change next season... maybe he doesnt hate Semedo, Denis because gonna change next season."

No... just no, pure nonsense, the fact that you even acknowledged his mistakes and then twist it saying maybe he is just hiding his true self just for the next season, maybe this, maybe that, is bullshit. The fact that he seemed to "change" because he came under fire after the Roma defeat and start to loosen up a little, but that alone simply doesnt cover up what he did all season, especially late season. It was just atrocious.

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I have never claimed he is perfect, but it pisses me off that our fanbase expect perfect seasons trophy-wise as well as playing exiting along the way - wake up! Fans of other clubs would give their eye-teeth for a league-trophy.

Is it so dumb to think that he has better conditions to improve the playing-style after his first season here, where he could assess the players get rid of the deadweight, and get new ones in that he believes in? In my opinion coaches don't have 1 season to prove everything they can do. Many coaches peak after their debutseason (Pep in City, Pochettino, Mourinho etc.). If he doesn't perform next season, then consider the options in the marked, don't panic when he barely has had the chance to prove himself in more than a damage-control-setting.

BarçaBarça said:

It is just that some has ridiculous high expectations - so when Real wins because of ONLY individual brilliance it is fair game and can be held against our current team/coach, but we should be better and win, get the trophies in the end and do it in the right way too. You can't expect that every season! This season we won in a more dull way than usual, but it is still a win, and the alternative is not a beautiful win, but no win at all (as I see it). Atletico has been great this season, Valencia competed but nevermind that - the league was a walkover



I know you say that it is not about trophies, but I can't take it serious that he is called a tactical fool and has poor management-skill, when no team in the league was able to beat us (besides 1). None of our opponents could beat us, still our manager has no tactical clue at all. Cool story bro. This is all about playing-style and expectations to me, and we are not playing exitingly, but I wouldn't trade a trophy-less season for one developing our playing-style only (most wouldn't but most don't realize it is a choice and want it all).



I have never claimed he is perfect, but it pisses me off that our fanbase expect perfect seasons trophy-wise as well as playing exiting along the way - wake up! Fans of other clubs would give their eye-teeth for a league-trophy.

Is it so dumb to think that he has better conditions to improve the playing-style after his first season here, where he could assess the players get rid of the deadweight, and get new ones in that he believes in? In my opinion coaches don't have 1 season to prove everything they can do. Many coaches peak after their debutseason (Pep in City, Pochettino, Mourinho etc.). If he doesn't perform next season, then consider the options in the marked, don't panic when he barely has had the chance to prove himself in more than a damage-control-setting.

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I never claimed he needs trophy perfect seasons as well, you keep skidding off track. That's not what I'm talking about.

It's fairly clear to see what kind of style he is more accustomed and what he prefers- the style he used in Bilbao. He overly emphasises on physicality over anything else, defensive shape but is clueless on how to instill attacking styles and options. You keep claiming he hasnt has had better conditions or resources to work on, he has but he is too fearful to utilise them instead chooses the same selection regardless of his opposition, week in, week out. Already, you recognised his mistakes and stop going back and forth defending him and then claim that he will change next season. This isn't detonating a bomb situation, where you have to be so cautious about everything. I get he has to be, but not to this extreme, no. Losing a player Neymar who has caused more damage than good, isnt losing everything.

It doesnt mean many coach peak after first season means every coach will achieve what they achieved and peak after the first season as well. What a silly assumption. Damage-control? Lmao. Yeah sure I'll give him 5 years for Barcelona to rebuild itself before we can safely judge him if that's enough for you. I'm ready for your excuses.

BarçaBarça said:

Some concerns are legitimate for sure, but moaning about things in a domestic double season is spoiled, and if you don't realize that, then we need to check our privilege as barcafans.
It is all about expectations: I didn't expect a domestic double before this season - I hoped we wouldn't be humiliated by Real, yet here we are, and therefore I thank Valverde.

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Stopped reading here. The classic old "you are just spoilt" narrative often used by EV apologists.

If this was the final season then yes it would have been amazing to end it with a double and we would all be happy and shit but guess what, we have to play next season too and if we played like how we did this season, and we aren't lucky like we were this time, we are going to fail miserably.

Apologies for being a broken record but THE DOMESTIC DOUBLE WAS MISLEADING and we if we aren't lucky and we don't change much about us then WE WILL FAIL BAD NEXT SEASON IF WE PLAYED LIKE THIS.

So yes, I am worried we are quite trash, and the misleading double isn't going to change my skeptism, and you need to come up with better arguments apart from "you are so spoilt"

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Titled how many minutes did youth players get in La Liga this season.

We are there with 5 mins and that was only Arnaiz.

Gotta love Eibar giving the vampyre(TW3 fans will understand) one minute

xXKonan said:

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Titled how many minutes did youth players get in La Liga this season.

We are there with 5 mins and that was only Arnaiz.

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We are actually not that bad or to be specific we aren't the only one, RM has 90 minutes (due to nepotism) and A.Madrid and Seville didn't use players that much either.

khaled_a_d said:

We are actually not that bad or to be specific we aren't the only one, RM has 90 minutes (due to nepotism) and A.Madrid and Seville didn't use players that much either.

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but but our La Masia is a symbol of pride and suppose to be the role model that all clubs follow. Our academy is the most famous academy in the world.

khaled_a_d said:

We are actually not that bad or to be specific we aren't the only one, RM has 90 minutes (due to nepotism) and A.Madrid and Seville didn't use players that much either.

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Madrid actually promoted young players at the first team already during this season. Where does Aschraf come from?

That stat with 5 minutes given to La Masia players over 38 games is laughable and embarassing.

khaled_a_d said:

We are actually not that bad or to be specific we aren't the only one, RM has 90 minutes (due to nepotism) and A.Madrid and Seville didn't use players that much either.

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Probably the only reason why Zidane even played his son.

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serghei said:

Madrid actually promoted young players at the first team already during this season. Where does Aschraf come from?

That stat with 5 minutes given to La Masia players over 38 games is laughable and embarassing.

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Agreed.

Even more since the league was won early and we have very promissing youngsters in Alenya and Oriol (injured later).

Barca need to win the CL more than anything next season. I hope he realizes that and plans for it accordingly.

Icarium said:

Barca need to win the CL more than anything next season. I hope he realizes that and plans for it accordingly.

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we won't come anywhere near the final as long as he's here,i certainly don't expect anything next year

Suddenly the Roma loss feels even worse