User Tag List

Page 425 of 427 FirstFirst ... 325375415423424425426427 LastLast
Results 6,361 to 6,375 of 6391

Thread: Ernesto Valverde

  1. #6361
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    3,471
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This guy is a dead man walking. Next season will be his last and it will probably end in tears.

    The fish rots from the head. There are many problems at the club. The board and Valverde are chief amongst them. Both the board and Valverde lack courage and the ability to take tough decisions and implement a LONG-TERM VISION of where the club is going.

  2. #6362
    Senior Member
    Raketa10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    3,677
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    Well, from my view, NOT ALL 442s are the same.
    You know that I love SOME stronger players, some defending etc.

    In the first part of a season, we usually played:
    Luis-Messi
    Iniesta-Rakitic-Busi-Paulinho
    Alba-Umtiti-Pique-Roberto

    Against Roma, we DID play 442, but it was suddenly:
    Iniesta-Rakitic-Busi-winger Roberto
    plus Semedo in defense.

    So, someone can say that it is the same, but it isn't.
    In the first part of a season, we played 4 central midfielders.
    Iniesta played on the left, but he was still: a central midfielder who is just playing slightly more towards left.
    On the right side we had Paulinho/Rakitic or Gomes who are also: central midfielders who played at the right side of a midfield.
    But no matter if you put Raki on the left, right or in the middle, he is still a central midfielder with both his attacking and defensive off the ball movement.
    So, our defense had 4 central midfielders plus 4 defenders in the first part of a season.
    And we were conceding extremely rarely.

    What happened later?
    Suddenly we had Dembele as a RW or a RM. On paper, someone could say: it is the same if you have Dembele or Rakitic/Paulinho as a right midfielder.
    Well, it isn't the same. That is a totally different universe.
    Dembele is a winger and he plays close to a touchline, while Raki/Paulinho/Gomes play centrally even when they are Rcms in a 442.
    So, Dembele is both: a winger and he moves differently, plus he doesn't know how to defend.

    The same was in Roma's match, we dropped Paulinho/Gomes for Roberto as a right winger.
    He hogged the touchline and we basically played with a 3 men midfield plus Roberto hogging a touchline.

    I am not saying that 442 is perfect, but obviously EV's 442 with workhorses worked better for EV than this new thing from the 2nd part of a season.
    Look at the first part of a season:
    2:0 Betis
    2:0 Alaves
    5:0 Espanyol
    3:0 Juventus
    2:1 Getafe
    6:1 Eibar
    3:0 Girona
    1:0 Sporting
    3:0 Las Palmas
    1:1 Atletico
    3:1 Olympiacos
    2:0 Malaga
    3:0 Murcia
    2:0 Bilbao
    0:0 Olympiacos
    2:1 Sevilla
    3:0 Leganes
    0:0 Juventus
    1:1 Valencia
    5:0 Murcia
    2:2 Celta
    2:0 Sporting
    2:0 Villareal
    4:0 Deportivo
    3:0 Real etc

    In the first 45 matches of a season (AFTER Supercup matches), we had:
    30 clean sheets (66% of matches)
    13 times conceded 1 goal
    2 times conceded 2 goals (Celta and Sociedad)
    So, in the first 45 matches, we conceded only 17 goals

    Then, in the last 11 matches, when we started to play both Messi, Coutinho, Luis, Dembele, Iniesta etc, or at least, we had Dembele and Coutinho compared to a 1st part of a season when we didn't have them:
    11 matches:
    1 clean sheet
    4 times conceded 1 goal
    4 times conceded 2 goals
    1 time conceded 3 goals (Roma)
    1 time conceded 5 goals (Levante)

    So, in the first 45 matches, when:
    1. Roberto was usually a RB
    2. when we played 442 with Iniesta-Raki-Busi-Paulinho/Gomes. Or in the worst case: Vidal as a RM and Roberto as a RB in some matches. Ok, Vidal is a winger, but he is a way better defender than Dembele, for example.
    3. when we didn't have Coutinho and Dembele:
    = we conceded 17 goals in 45 matches
    And had 30 clean sheets in 45 matches.

    After moving to 433 or 442 with wingers Dembele/Coutinho instead of a CM playing as a RCM:
    11 matches:
    20 goals conceded in 11 matches, lol.

    So, in the last 11 matches we conceded more goals than in the first 45 matches (20:17 goals).
    Clean sheets: 30 out of 45 turning into 1 out of 11 matches.

    Ok, I know that there are some other factors like players losing their motivation lately, but still: you can see that EV's defensive 442 with 4 Cms was working way better than current 442 with Dembele or 433.
    90% of people are only looking at attacking contribution and for majority of them it is: playing Dembele is a no brainer.
    Well, at least in EV's system, NOT playing Dembele or wingers is actually a no brainer, according to stats and our results.

    So, I agree with you that EV is probably bad.
    But what is worse is that he turned back to a formation and style which brought him results, to please the fans and media (playing Dembele and more attacking players).

    If we would have played 442 with Pualinho instead of Roberto in Rome, we probably wouldn't conceded 3 goals since we didn't concede more than 2 goals for 45 matches in a row.
    But, EV started to "experiment" in 2-3 matches before Roma and that's it.
    He abandoned his system and started to play something new.

    Also, I doubt that EV's 442 with 4 true CMs from the beginning of a season would ever concede 5 goals against Levante.
    That is more or less impossible since our midfield is extremely strong and defensively oriented in that version of 442.
    When you have 4 true CMs, Rakitic has less space to cover, so he is not that bad (if a pitch is 60 meters wide, if you have 3 players in line in 433, each has to cover roughly 20 meters. In 442, each CM has to cover only 15 meters of space. Or, even worse, if Busi plays behind them, then in 433 Iniesta and Rakitic need to cover around 30 meters each. While in 442 with 3 Cms in line and Busi behind, they need to cover "only" 20 meters of width instead of 30 meters of width as in 433.)
    Busi has less space to cover also, so you can't outrun him that easily.
    Ineista has less space to cover.
    Paulinho is in, and also has less space to cover.

    While yesterday in 433 we had 3 slow turtles in midfield (each covering 30 meters of width) with Dembele, Luis and Cou barely defending.
    Plus, Semedo instead of Roberto as a RB.
    Way different story than the beginning of a season.

    Imo, 442 is way better in defense than 433.
    Even though, 442 lacks in attack.
    On the other hand, our 433 is better in attack (even though we suck there often too even in 433), and our midfield is slow (3 turtles) and defending is a like a horror show.
    When you sum everything up, imo, our current team was way better in 442.
    But that will mean: no Dembele, so people will get angry.
    100% true. 4-4-3 doesn't suit us at all anymore. We have only one true winger (Dembele) and we are currently miles away from that Xavi-Busi-Iniesta midfield. To be honest 4-3-3 would be preferable solution only for Busi and Dembele. IMHO next season it will be 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 but with those two I also have some serious issues.

    With 4-4-2 there is a problem with incorporating Dembele. Coutinho would play on the left that's for sure but who is going to play on the right? Dembele? Not sure this is going to happen since both of our RB's are average defensive players who won't be able to cover Dembele in defense. IMHO Dembele is a pure RW and not RM and that's the reason he would excel in 4-3-3.


    In 4-4-2 it would probably be:

    -Dembele-Busi-Rakitic-Coutinho-
    ----Messi-Griezman(or Suraez)---

    Problem with this formation is that this is more 4-2-4 than 4-4-2!

    On the other side with 4-2-3-1 there is a problem with our entire midfield since NONE of our current midfielders is good solution for that formation.

    In 4-2-3-1 it would probably be:

    Dembele-Messi-Coutinho
    ---------Griezmann------

    or

    Griezmann-Messi-Coutinho
    ------------Suarez----------

    But who are those two behind them who will cover space behind Messi, Coutinho, Dembele or Griezmann??? Busi and Rakitic? I am not sure that would work. Busi is definitely not physical enough for that role and on the other side Rakitic is to slow. If we had for example Kante and Thiago in that place than 4-2-3-1 would be a much better solution.

    If I had to chose between those two formations I would always opt for 4-2-3-1 but than I would push hard for at least one more strong and fast midfielder together with Thiago which would cost us unbelievable amount of money. We would probably also need to sell Rakitic to be able to finance this. I sincerely hope that Arthur is at least a partial solution for our midfield problems but it's hard to be an optimist regarding players coming from Brazilian league these days.

    That being said I think that we will continue to play that underwhelming 4-4-2 mainly because we don't have controlling midfielder and all our current midfielders are either too slow or too weak to adapt to 4-2-3-1.
    Last edited by Raketa10; 15th May 2018 at 12:16 PM.

  3. #6363
    Senior Member
    Givenchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,790
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    4231

    -------------MaTS
    Semedo-Pique-Umtiti-Alba
    -----------Busi-Arthur
    Griezmann-Coutinho-Dembele
    --------------Messi

    not sure about Arthur we'd probably need some muscle/Kante type

  4. #6364
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    3,471
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Lol, why are people yapping on about formations?

    It doesn't matter. Valverde can't fight sleep. How the fuck is he supposed to motivate a squad that has so many divas? He is a yes man.

    A guy like Klopp took Liverpool to cl final. Their defense is ordinary and their midfield even worse. Keeping the players on their toes and motivating them is more important than tactics. Look at Zidane and Real.

  5. #6365
    Senior Member
    clemente's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    1,283
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It doesn't matter that our team is full of divas. EV just doesn't have enough personality to manage a team like this, I cannot imagine someone like Suarez walking around like he is in the beach if our manager was someone like Simeone. I remember the same shit was happening under Lucho, team was pressing less and less the longer he was our manager, I'm surprised that not even 1 season in and our players already can't be bothered to give their 100% for EV, cannot believe this guy will be our manager next season, if we don't sell certain players, next season might be an emberrassement.

  6. #6366
    Senior Member
    Raketa10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    3,677
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by clemente View Post
    It doesn't matter that our team is full of divas. EV just doesn't have enough personality to manage a team like this, I cannot imagine someone like Suarez walking around like he is in the beach if our manager was someone like Simeone. I remember the same shit was happening under Lucho, team was pressing less and less the longer he was our manager, I'm surprised that not even 1 season in and our players already can't be bothered to give their 100% for EV, cannot believe this guy will be our manager next season, if we don't sell certain players, next season might be an emberrassement.
    Thatís the thing I was concerned about from the moment he was appointed. EV just doesn't have strong enough personality to manage Barca and thatís a fact.

  7. #6367
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    502
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He's a shit manager who cost the team a potential treble and a historic unbeaten season with his shit tactics and decision making. Bailed out by Messi time and time again.

    I hope he gets piles. Bad.

  8. #6368
    Member
    Meatball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Singapore+Vietnam+Hongkong
    Posts
    407
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm not surprised if our boards had already negotiated with Valverde about the type of football which we d play before they even hired him. Some clubs' boards hire managers and make them the ones who decide things (Pep at City, Mourinho at Utd, Ferguson at Utd, etc). Others hire managers whom they think they can control, treat as puppets and pull the strings behind the curtain, which has probably been our case in recent years. I would put most of the blame on the boards, next d be Valverde and the players who were equally fekked up

  9. #6369
    Barcaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold... and I don't know the names of the players.
    Posts
    28,179
    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    At least he is aware now that even domestic double is not that great if you play bad football and get humiliated in CL.

    No excuses next season. I want Barca to be Barca and not count ogs or how many clean sheets/GK bravados we had.

    I doubt there are easy solutions like "drop Suarez" or "play 4-3-3". Change has to come in players mentality first. They need to re-ignite the fire and get hungry again.

  10. #6370
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    81
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Barcaman View Post
    At least he is aware now that even domestic double is not that great if you play bad football and get humiliated in CL.

    No excuses next season. I want Barca to be Barca and not count ogs or how many clean sheets/GK bravados we had.

    I doubt there are easy solutions like "drop Suarez" or "play 4-3-3". Change has to come in players mentality first. They need to re-ignite the fire and get hungry again.
    Do people really think he can change his way of thinking ?

    Some teams would have sacked him straight after the Levante game ... going down to 5:1 so soon after that embarrassing defeat at Roma .

  11. #6371
    Senior Member
    George_Costanza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    1,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Meatball View Post
    I'm not surprised if our boards had already negotiated with Valverde about the type of football which we d play before they even hired him. Some clubs' boards hire managers and make them the ones who decide things (Pep at City, Mourinho at Utd, Ferguson at Utd, etc). Others hire managers whom they think they can control, treat as puppets and pull the strings behind the curtain, which has probably been our case in recent years. I would put most of the blame on the boards, next d be Valverde and the players who were equally fekked up
    To manage Barcelona, the coach should represent his ideas and vision before he gets the job. Like any normal job interview where they ask what value he will add. This how Pep got hired. As for EV, from what I read only his agent met with Roberto to negotiate a contract. He didn't meet the board until he signed the contract.
    I have a bad feeling that whenever a lesbian looks at me they think ďThatís why Iím not a heterosexualĒ.

  12. #6372
    Senior Member
    serghei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    12,070
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Barcaman View Post
    At least he is aware now that even domestic double is not that great if you play bad football and get humiliated in CL.
    Valverde worked overtime to make this double look only like an ok-ish season, when in fact it's an incredible achievement which only happened several times in our history.

  13. #6373
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    127
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoTata View Post
    Do people really think he can change his way of thinking ?

    Some teams would have sacked him straight after the Levante game ... going down to 5:1 so soon after that embarrassing defeat at Roma .
    If he changes or not it will still look like shit and be completely dependent on Messis performance. Unless he somehow discovers high level possession based attacking football on as a new hobby this summer vacation.

  14. #6374
    Senior Member
    henias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,019
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Barcaman View Post
    At least he is aware now that even domestic double is not that great if you play bad football and get humiliated in CL.

    No excuses next season. I want Barca to be Barca and not count ogs or how many clean sheets/GK bravados we had.

    I doubt there are easy solutions like "drop Suarez" or "play 4-3-3". Change has to come in players mentality first. They need to re-ignite the fire and get hungry again.
    It doesnt matter if players are motivated or not, 433 or 442. Valverde's main tactics is being conservative and doesnt like players with pace.

    "Players changing mentality" isn't the only solution as well. You can go days harping about how players are "lazy and arrogant", especially how Messi is a "lazy bum" as some people would claim, Valverde has really poor rotations with Messi and Suarez so I'm honestly not surprised how things turned out like Lucho's season.

    Going 5-1 down without Messi so I dont see why some people keep blaming Messi. Suarez in itself is a huge issue. As a coach, you need to learn to build a team around Messi, provide him with pace and options, sure, replacing Suarez isnt the only solution, but with Suarez, we kill any chances of progressing our attacks through counter attacks no matter how "good" our defence is. Him favouring Suarez over Dembele and physicality over literally anything else wont win you games or "look like Barca". EV doesnt have that sort of charisma or leadership to have authority over a team full of stars.

    Mentality is one issue but it literally cannot solve so many other glaring issues.

  15. #6375
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,746
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)