Ousmane Dembélé
Banned
I expect him to make the best of what we have and he's not doing that.
I expect him to make the best of what we have and he's not doing that.
Ousmane Dembélé
Banned
These results aren't sustainable and we have been rather lucky this season to be where we are at. I will continue to voice my concerns but will eat my words if end up winning the Liga this year.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
I also think he isn't doing the best with what we have right now, but tbf managers in football tend to vary their own individual performance greatly based on the squad they have.
Lucho was seemingly doing a great job during 14/15 and halfway through 15/16 when our treble squad was strong and reasonably deep. When form started to stumble and certain players started to decline, Lucho didn't know how to handle the squad weaknesses (RB particularly) and his managing of the squad also worsened as the squad worsened which is essentially 2 blows in one for our team performance.
Same sort of thing has happened to Pep post-Barca until City, Ancelotti with PSG and Bayern, Mourinho, etc. and those coaches had much better squads than EV does right now. Another example is that I would not be surprised whatsoever if/when Zidane doesn't perform up to par as a manager for other teams after he leaves RM.
EV with Dembele before he got injured seemed at least reasonably smarter tactically than he is at the moment. Our system before and after his injury has changed very noticeably though we can't know how much of that was down to Dembele's injury. Also prior to that when he had Neymar he seemed to have a clear and strong idea in place though that was only preseason. I would not be surprised if EV's decision making looked drastically different when Dembele returns and if he gets a couple of truly good midfielders (buying Coutinho and promoting Aleña next season could be big enough changes alone).
Generally, I think managers have a much easier time tactically when they have certain high IQ players and reasonable balance in the squad. This might be more true than we as fans are able to recognize. It often takes a very specific set of conditions for a coach to be able to succeed with his players; And while it'd be nice to have coaches that are able to perform as optimally as possible with whatever iteration of players, most of the best coaches in football have not demonstrated this ability with that much consistency so it's probably more difficult than imagined.
Last edited:
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
He is kind of between Tata and Tito, it depends on his ability to continue to grind points in the league. I think it will be more of the later since he is very experienced in Liga unlike Tata.
But I disagree with the bolded statement, at least we are able to get Messi the ball in even better places now, during Tata year Messi had to drop a lot to get the ball and he wasn't even as good of a play maker he is right now.
Neymessi
Active member
You need to go back just a few pages to see the appreciation.
Yep. I said this before too that this season is going exactly like tata's. There are just too many analogies to draw. We can only hope it doesn't end that way
The criticism is not for his playing style or anything but more about his terrible squad management and lineup selections.
xXKonan
Senior Member
Going by today's match and Atletico away, it's interesting once we bring in Midfielders off the bench things start to flow and be more energetic.
His conservative selections is going bite us in the ass at some point. I remember Sumlit talking about it on the chat on just how conservative the starting XI+Roberto at RB is. He wants to keep possession but man it's so sterile and conservative it's not doing us any good.
Not only that it's low energy and slow as hell. bad enough Messi and Suarez aren't pacy nor don't track back but having slow immobile midfield as we do is not good at all. the last couple of games once we made subs like Paulinho and even Gomes and Roberto in the Mid today when Semedo was subbed on they brought the energy and drive that we have been missing.
Valverde seriously needs to rethink things or it will bite us in the ass eventually.
His conservative selections is going bite us in the ass at some point. I remember Sumlit talking about it on the chat on just how conservative the starting XI+Roberto at RB is. He wants to keep possession but man it's so sterile and conservative it's not doing us any good.
Not only that it's low energy and slow as hell. bad enough Messi and Suarez aren't pacy nor don't track back but having slow immobile midfield as we do is not good at all. the last couple of games once we made subs like Paulinho and even Gomes and Roberto in the Mid today when Semedo was subbed on they brought the energy and drive that we have been missing.
Valverde seriously needs to rethink things or it will bite us in the ass eventually.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
It's hard to take Valverde seriously. Yes, we are getting results but this is just concealing the fact that we're awful.
Semedo was excellent and then Valverde decided to bench him. Consensus was last season that we needed a proper RB. We were exposed last season because of that and switched to a back three.
Now Valverde has gone back to Roberto instead of Semedo. Roberto should be playing in midfield and Semedo should be developing at right back. Semedo is excellent going forward but due to Valverde we haven't seen that.
Denis scored some important goals and he's benched.
EV simply lacks the imagination of a big club manager. His mindset is suited to a Celta Vigo, Betis type of team.
When we are dumped out of CL and Messi leaves us maybe the dumbfuck socis will wake up.
Semedo was excellent and then Valverde decided to bench him. Consensus was last season that we needed a proper RB. We were exposed last season because of that and switched to a back three.
Now Valverde has gone back to Roberto instead of Semedo. Roberto should be playing in midfield and Semedo should be developing at right back. Semedo is excellent going forward but due to Valverde we haven't seen that.
Denis scored some important goals and he's benched.
EV simply lacks the imagination of a big club manager. His mindset is suited to a Celta Vigo, Betis type of team.
When we are dumped out of CL and Messi leaves us maybe the dumbfuck socis will wake up.
Richard.H
Senior Member
I was expecting this man to be some master tactician but boy was I wrong. So far he hasn't been much better than Lucho. He also seems to keep a blacklist of players. I feel really bad for D.Suarez, S.Roberto, and Semedo. They are top class players who are getting dicked down.
Big part of the blame should be on the board. It's apparent that they hired a yes man to be the coach. A club of Barca's reputation needs a coach if international stature.
Big part of the blame should be on the board. It's apparent that they hired a yes man to be the coach. A club of Barca's reputation needs a coach if international stature.
Birdy
Senior Member
Having closely followed EV's work during 08-09 and 10-12 when he was coaching Olympiakos, one thing is certain: he is not the naive Yes man that people here present him to be. On the contrary, not only he is tactically well-versed, but he is a team builder. He is not the type of coach that will make the master-sub which will win the game (look at Italian coaches for that skill), but rather a hard worker that can build from scratch, not unlike Pep, and create an amazing team that can win by playing beautiful football.
The scenario of him having deteriorated as a coach during his spell at Bilbao IMO - without having followed him that closely the last years to be honest - is not very probable.
His coaching style is suited to top league teams that are usually dominant, and not mid-table teams like Bilbao - notwithstanding the fact that he can do well there as well, in a leading team he can really excel..
So, given that background one the one hand and the unsatisfying performance on the pitch so far despite the results on the other hand, what can be a possible explanation? I can think of two possible ones, which may be both at work at the same time:
i) He is still experimenting to build the characteristics he wants from the team. That can be a formation/player experimentation which has stopped the last weeks - as people noticed he has stuck with certain people as basic XI lately, but it can also be trying things out on training and waiting to see them happening on the pitch. And that second case can take really long...
I am the last person to be happy to see Rakitic on the pitch, Iniesta a shadow of himself in the basic XI, Suarez in bad shape playing every game, and Roberto, Denis and Paulinho who can at least run on the bench.
But none of us knows what exactly he is working in his trainings. EV is not the type of man that will not try to build a team, but rather manage a squad by using some experienced players to get some results against Malaga here, Getafe there etc
ii) My biggest fear and worry when heard EV will be the new Barca coach has been the fact that he had never coached such a high-calibre club. Some people cannot take the huge stress, responsibility and pressure that accompanies such a job. If that's the case, it is expected that it will be reflected in the way he works, or in the way the team performs. 'Playing safe' regarding formations might be a symptom of the above, which of course goes contrary to the aspiration of building a team with distinctive style play. If you cannot bear the anxiety and the pressure of a draw at home versus minor opponent, you will never be able to build a proper team..
I wish this is not the case, because if it is i cannot see how he can dig himself out of this hole..
I will wait until Christmas and the first Classico to get a more complete picture, before passing any judgment
The scenario of him having deteriorated as a coach during his spell at Bilbao IMO - without having followed him that closely the last years to be honest - is not very probable.
His coaching style is suited to top league teams that are usually dominant, and not mid-table teams like Bilbao - notwithstanding the fact that he can do well there as well, in a leading team he can really excel..
So, given that background one the one hand and the unsatisfying performance on the pitch so far despite the results on the other hand, what can be a possible explanation? I can think of two possible ones, which may be both at work at the same time:
i) He is still experimenting to build the characteristics he wants from the team. That can be a formation/player experimentation which has stopped the last weeks - as people noticed he has stuck with certain people as basic XI lately, but it can also be trying things out on training and waiting to see them happening on the pitch. And that second case can take really long...
I am the last person to be happy to see Rakitic on the pitch, Iniesta a shadow of himself in the basic XI, Suarez in bad shape playing every game, and Roberto, Denis and Paulinho who can at least run on the bench.
But none of us knows what exactly he is working in his trainings. EV is not the type of man that will not try to build a team, but rather manage a squad by using some experienced players to get some results against Malaga here, Getafe there etc
ii) My biggest fear and worry when heard EV will be the new Barca coach has been the fact that he had never coached such a high-calibre club. Some people cannot take the huge stress, responsibility and pressure that accompanies such a job. If that's the case, it is expected that it will be reflected in the way he works, or in the way the team performs. 'Playing safe' regarding formations might be a symptom of the above, which of course goes contrary to the aspiration of building a team with distinctive style play. If you cannot bear the anxiety and the pressure of a draw at home versus minor opponent, you will never be able to build a proper team..
I wish this is not the case, because if it is i cannot see how he can dig himself out of this hole..
I will wait until Christmas and the first Classico to get a more complete picture, before passing any judgment
Last edited:
serghei
Senior Member
It's early days. Maybe we're too tough on Valvere. But he needs to take better decisions especially regarding man management. It's clear as day that at this point Mascherano should start instead of Pique, that Roberto and even Alena should get more minutes in midfield at CM, and that Semedo is not only our best transfer, but one of the best young RBs in the world, with potential to even be the best of them all out there very soon.
We have 2-3 talents who aren't properly used, in position that last season were our downfall. If it happens again this season, it's a big problem. I don't think we have a bad squad. It's very good, but the selections of Valverde aren't what they should be. Hopefully that will change.
So far, Valverde is failing bit time at rejuvenating the squad. Instead of setting the foundations for the next Barca, he is overplaying the old timers or the out of form players, because he lacks courage and vision. If this bites him in the ass as it may very well happen, by june, we'll have had a trophyless season and another wasted year in refreshing the squad.
We have 2-3 talents who aren't properly used, in position that last season were our downfall. If it happens again this season, it's a big problem. I don't think we have a bad squad. It's very good, but the selections of Valverde aren't what they should be. Hopefully that will change.
So far, Valverde is failing bit time at rejuvenating the squad. Instead of setting the foundations for the next Barca, he is overplaying the old timers or the out of form players, because he lacks courage and vision. If this bites him in the ass as it may very well happen, by june, we'll have had a trophyless season and another wasted year in refreshing the squad.
Last edited:
henias
New member
Some of you dont have to sugarcoat Valverde's lack of vision. If you are telling me he's just started out a few games, and is testing out players, then it's totally understandable. But it's already past the point where he stays subdued and cautious, by now he should know the squad inside out. Enrique was afraid to do rotations and it ended up the whole team being overwhelmed with fatigue. The season is a long campaign; A good start means nothing, ultimately, who can survive till the very end wins. Endurance and durability is key as well.
There's simply NO point starting Iniesta EVERY match, playing players who are clearly out of form like Rakitic. We have a plentiful of good form players like Paulinho, Roberto, Denis, Semedo. They can all start and polish up their ability against lower tier teams, instead of wasting your best players' energy only for them to crumble in the face of big teams.
Look at Zidane. He didnt even use Ronaldo against Barca, gives plenty of chances for young players like Mayoral, Asensio to shine.
He is simply a "Yes" man through and through, theres no denying about that and u dont have to say there's pressure and stress in the job. In that case, there's simply no point in Enrique resigning. He's not any different. Enrique has limited player options, but for Valverde he has a myriad of good players and fails to properly utilise them all and distribute the minutes properly. If he thinks Semedo is gonna find his best form against strong teams by not letting him play majority of the minutes, I'm sorry. It doesnt work that way.
By Valverde's way of handling the squad, I wont be surprised if Barca might miss out on another CL like Tata. By then it would come back to bite him.
There's simply NO point starting Iniesta EVERY match, playing players who are clearly out of form like Rakitic. We have a plentiful of good form players like Paulinho, Roberto, Denis, Semedo. They can all start and polish up their ability against lower tier teams, instead of wasting your best players' energy only for them to crumble in the face of big teams.
Look at Zidane. He didnt even use Ronaldo against Barca, gives plenty of chances for young players like Mayoral, Asensio to shine.
He is simply a "Yes" man through and through, theres no denying about that and u dont have to say there's pressure and stress in the job. In that case, there's simply no point in Enrique resigning. He's not any different. Enrique has limited player options, but for Valverde he has a myriad of good players and fails to properly utilise them all and distribute the minutes properly. If he thinks Semedo is gonna find his best form against strong teams by not letting him play majority of the minutes, I'm sorry. It doesnt work that way.
By Valverde's way of handling the squad, I wont be surprised if Barca might miss out on another CL like Tata. By then it would come back to bite him.
Last edited:
serghei
Senior Member
That's true about Semedo. If he'll start him against Bilbao that's after 2 weeks of scrap minutes. How can you expect him to play very well in a tough away game and really grow so he can be a true asset in this team by march, if he plays now, sits for two weeks, plays again? This is not fucking FIFA 18. He'll ruin Semedo's season.
Valverde doesn't seem to think Semedo needs continuity. That, or he trusts Roberto more. Doesn't make any sense playing Roberto at RB both in CL on wednesday and in La Liga on saturnday. Twice in 3 days. When you have a talented RB who needs time to prove himself as a started, WHICH HE ALREADY STARTED TO DO.
Maybe Valverde has a new masterplan. He'll use Semedo vs Murcia, and play Roberto again vs Bilbao.
Valverde doesn't seem to think Semedo needs continuity. That, or he trusts Roberto more. Doesn't make any sense playing Roberto at RB both in CL on wednesday and in La Liga on saturnday. Twice in 3 days. When you have a talented RB who needs time to prove himself as a started, WHICH HE ALREADY STARTED TO DO.
Maybe Valverde has a new masterplan. He'll use Semedo vs Murcia, and play Roberto again vs Bilbao.
Last edited:
henias
New member
The only way Semedo can actually even improve potentially is only against big teams, which isnt THAT many to begin with. And if he doesnt play very well against big teams, he gets fking subbed. That would reduce his playing miniutes EVEN MORE. But u cant expect him to even give a 7/10 performance after benching him for 2 WEEKS.
If u wanna prepare him for big games, at least let him play one game before the big game that can actually warm him up and be up to fitness. Immediately putting him in a physically demanding game against Atletico after a hiatus is obviously gonna throw him off completely. Benching him is gonna disrupt his momentum and fitness.
But it seems like Valverde thinks one Atletico match was enough to sum up his potential as a RB. Which is so fking stupid, considering he wasnt even given minutes and preparation in the first place.
Semedo will be ruined. I'll literally facepalm if Semedo starts for another big match after getting benched again. I think by then Semedo would be very rusty, and pressured, and would not be able to put up a good performance like he did against Juventus.
And lemme guess, Valverde would then sub him out again and be dumped forever, into oblivion, single-handedly ruined by his own manager.
Last edited:
Home of Barca Fans
