Ernesto Valverde - V1

MessiCam said:

Why are you bringing me into this Mourinho thing? I have absolutely nothing to do with it.

And yes, I will use half’s as an example because this current Barcelona pats itself on the back for better possession and passing stats over 90 mins against a defensive, counter attacking team that had the better of the game for a whole 45 minutes. What comes next? Yay, we had more possession than Eibar...

And City did have a swashbuckling attacking performance against Chelsea. Nearly 80% of the ball, 900 passes against a team that parked the biggest bus I’ve seen in a long time and yet they fashioned just 2 shots less on target in total and 3 overall than us who played against a team that opened up in the second half.

That game against a Juventus was a spineless performance for lack of a better word. Messi or not, we managed a grand total of 1 shot on target over 90 minutes as opposed to 3 from Juventus despite having 65% possession. You call it a controlled game while I call it a performance bereft of any audacity. It’s the type of game Bilbao would play.

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Chelsea barely even 'parked the bus' v Man City they walked about looking not interested for most part.

Barca created more v one of in form teams in Europe.

The game against Juve away in a game a draw suited Barca and rested Messi was not 'spineless' in the slightest. Barca controlled the game and were the better side.

You have been saying all season how shit Barca are and cant seem to handle still winning games.

JamDav1982 said:

Chelsea barely even 'parked the bus' v Man City they walked about looking not interested for most part.

Barca created more v one of in form teams in Europe.

The game against Juve away in a game a draw suited Barca and rested Messi was not 'spineless' in the slightest. Barca controlled the game and were the better side.

You have been saying all season how shit Barca are and cant seem to handle still winning games.

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What are you talking about... Between the 54 and 81st minute Chelsea had all their players behind the ball and didn’t have one shot on goal during that period. Conte has publicly stated that he is not Arsenal and would rather lose 1 - 0 than 3 - 0 that’s why he employed the tactics he did.

And like I’ve said, you say we controlled the Juventus game which is fine by me. I suppose you can look at aimless possession at 0 - 0 scoreline with only 1 shot on target as control. I find it spineless. Didn’t even try to win the game... Focus was on not losing.

And for me it’s not about the winning only. It’s about the performance and we’ve been mediocre since mid January. You can celebrate that if you want. Excuse me for not joining you.

MessiCam said:

What are you talking about... Between the 54 and 81st minute Chelsea had all their players behind the ball and didn’t have one shot on goal during that period. Conte has publicly stated that he is not Arsenal and would rather lose 1 - 0 than 3 - 0 that’s why he employed the tactics he did.

And like I’ve said, you say we controlled the Juventus game which is fine by me. I suppose you can look at aimless possession at 0 - 0 scoreline with only 1 shit on target as control. I find it spineless. Didn’t even try to win the game... Focus was on not losing.

And for me it’s not about the winning only. It’s about the performance and we’ve been mediocre since mid January. You can celebrate that if you want. Excuse me for not joining you.

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Of course they had men behind ball as Man City had so much of it but they were ambling about not even looking all that interested for most part.

You seem to have a huge problem with 'aimless' posession and one shot on target but marvel at City having more of the ball and only three shots in a game vs an unmotivated side. City at home in game looking to win as well.

You have been moaning the whole season not just since January. Nothing new.

A lot of talking about things that are obvious and already recognized in the football world everywhere. Everyone says this Barca is more defensive and more efficient in scoring their chances, while they don't show the same ability to open teams up. It is an obvious change in style from Valverde, and yes, it is so far working in the sense that we're getting better results than in the previous two years even if we don't play as nice.

People act as if Mourinho is a two dime manager, and it's offensive to compare this version Barca with his football views. It's laughable.

serghei said:

A lot of talking about things that are obvious and already recognized in the football world everywhere. Everyone says this Barca is more defensive and more efficient in scoring their chances, while they don't show the same ability to open teams up. It is an obvious change in style from Valverde, and yes, it is so far working in the sense that we're getting results.

People act as if Mourinho is a two dime manager, and it's offensive to compare this version Barca with his football views. It's laughable.

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Because this version of Barca is nothing like Mourinhos teams and usual approach which he tailored at times while at Real.

Laughable is looking at Barca v Atletico last week ad claiming it was 'Mourinho' approach.

serghei said:

A lot of talking about things that are obvious and already recognized in the football world everywhere. Everyone says this Barca is more defensive and more efficient in scoring their chances, while they don't show the same ability to open teams up. It is an obvious change in style from Valverde, and yes, it is so far working in the sense that we're getting better results than in the previous two years even if we don't play as nice.

People act as if Mourinho is a two dime manager, and it's offensive to compare this version Barca with his football views. It's laughable.

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It's not even debatable. That we are more economic and pragmatic under Valverde. Dont's see anyone denying it.

But it's not Mourinho football. Not even close. No matter how good or bad a manager he is.

JamDav1982 said:

Because this version of Barca is nothing like Mourinhos teams and usual approach which he tailored at times while at Real.

Laughable is looking at Barca v Atletico last week ad claiming it was 'Mourinho' approach.

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What the hell are you talking about? We scored from a freekick and then invited Atletico to attack while defending well and showing little intent to score the 2nd on the break. That's basically the ideal Mourinho / Simeone scenario of winning a game. 1-0 with a set piece and a whole 2nd half spent defending well and protecting that slim advantage.

Jesus, I'm thinking you're speaking about the 3-1 win from 2014-15 the way you sound.

serghei said:

A lot of talking about things that are obvious and already recognized in the football world everywhere. Everyone says this Barca is more defensive and more efficient in scoring their chances, while they don't show the same ability to open teams up. It is an obvious change in style from Valverde, and yes, it is so far working in the sense that we're getting better results than in the previous two years even if we don't play as nice.

People act as if Mourinho is a two dime manager, and it's offensive to compare this version Barca with his football views. It's laughable.

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No, what is laughable is comparing EV's brand of pragmatic possession football to Mou's destructive anti football.

Noone will argue the fact that we have spells of much more defensive, reactive football than we've been used to since Pep took the reins, which I'm not necessarily a fan of, but EV obviously believes it's the best style for our current squad. I get that you don't like EV, and haven't since he joined, but comparing this to the bus parking that Mou shows at times, is fucking ridiculous.

Trickykid said:

No, what is laughable is comparing EV's brand of pragmatic possession football to Mou's destructive anti football.

Noone will argue the fact that we have spells of much more defensive, reactive football than we've been used to since Pep took the reins, which I'm not necessarily a fan of, but EV obviously believes it's the best style for our current squad. I get that you don't like EV, and haven't since he joined, but comparing this to the bus parking that Mou shows at times, is fucking ridiculous.

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Mourinho wasn't anti-football when he was in charge of a top attacking team like Madrid. Maybe a handful of times, when he was up against Pep's Barca. But that's it. Do you think Madrid didn't have more possession than the opponent under Mourinho in 90% of the matches they played?

Did Mourinho park the bus when he beat us 3-1 on Camp Nou in Copa? Did he park the bus when he beat us in the league 2-1 at home on Camp Nou? That season he scored us 5 goals on Camp Nou in 2 games. HE DIDN'T PARK THE BUS at Madrid except maybe 2-3 times.

serghei said:

What the hell are you talking about? We scored from a freekick and then invited Atletico to attack while defending well and showing little intent to score the 2nd on the break. That's basically the ideal Mourinho / Simeone scenario of winning a game. 1-0 with a set piece and a whole 2nd half spent defending well and protecting that slim advantage.

Jesus, I'm thinking you're speaking about the 3-1 win from 2014-15 the way you sound.

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What on earth are you on about?

Barca dominated them in first half where game was won.. free kicks not count now?

Then went more defensive in second half due to players either being tired or EV predicting they would be.

Barca were far better side. Created the most chances and were well worth the win.

This lazy 'Mourinho' comparison from is a joke if actually watched the game.

You seem to want Barca to continue to attack all the time against maybe the top counter attacking side on go at moment having played a few days previously....aye that makes sense.

serghei said:

Mourinho wasn't anti-football when he was in charge of a top attacking team like Madrid. Maybe a handful of times, when he was up against Pep's Barca. But that's it.

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So you're saying that what he showed against Sevilla is what is to be expected by a squad like that of Man Utd?

How can somebody be unhappy with the Atletico game btw?
First of all the game overall was great. Two teams with tactically sound managers who showed their skills, high intensity throughout and the amount of mistakes shown was really small.
We dominated that game in the first half like I have rarely seen another team being able to against Atletico. And in the second half it was normal that they were going for goal and we had to absorb pressure. It was their last chance to win the league. You know the mindset of a Simeone team, they are ready to fight until death and do you really think any team could dominate with ease in such a situation? Not to mention Simeone made three attacking subs but still not managed to create one single big chance in the process. In contrast we should have put the game to bed earlier with more precision in the final third.

I am not in awe with Valverde's player choices and approaches in some matches but look at the big picture.
We are THE team in Europe right now. ManCity might look better and I like to watch them too but they crashed out against Wigan in the FA Cup which is embarrassing tbh. The only game we lost so far in the whole freaking season was meaningless because we made up for it a week later. And Bayern has not faced a real test yet imo.
Last season our results were random. PSG destroyed us and we answered with the biggest comeback ever. Usually a performance like that should give you an unstoppable boost and many thought we would go on and win CL after the 6:1 only to be dominated by Juve.
We made a big step compared to last season and that is after losing Neymar and getting basically no replacement for him because Dembele has been injured so far and Coutinho is not able to play in CL. In the meantime La Liga is basically secured at the beginning of March, we should really win Copa and with our lucky draw in CL (finally) we will finally be in another semi final.

Trickykid said:

So you're saying that what he showed against Sevilla is what is to be expected by a squad like that of Man Utd?

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Why are you reducing Mourinho's legacy to the most recent and unfortunate example? It's like speaking about Lucho at Barca and reducing him to the 4-0 and 3-0 vs PSG and Juve. For real? Mourinho's football, the best version of it, is very similar to what we're seeing now from Valverde.

Just because Mourinho has lost the plot in the last recent years, doesn't mean his football and his ideas weren't hugely successful when displayed correctly.

serghei said:

Why are you reducing Mourinho's legacy to the most recent and unfortunate example? It's like speaking about Lucho at Barca and reducing him to the 4-0 and 3-0 vs PSG and Juve. For real? Mourinho's football, the best version of it, is very similar to what we're seeing now from Valverde.

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No it isnt.

EV approach is nothing like Mourinhos 'ideal' approach.

The one time Mourinho adapted was at Real which is the only time you seem to be comparing him to EV which proves the point.

JamDav1982 said:

No it isnt.

EV approach is nothing like Mourinhos 'ideal' approach.

The one time Mourinho adapted was at Real which is the only time you seem to be comparing him to EV which proves the point.

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Madrid is the only comparable team with Barca that he managed, so of course that is the example I'm using.