Ernesto Valverde - V1

Joan

Joan

Well-known member
henias said:
This season is not going to be much of a difference because I see the same problems during Lucho's late season. And Ev's approach has always been subbing out Semedo when we're struggling, while people like Pique is leaving all kinds of gaps in the defence. Roberto didnt do much to help either.

It honestly boggles my mind how people think this season would be a breakthrough CL season with Valverde. Realistically speaking, we still have many loopholes not addressed yet. Depth wise, we only look good on paper but Valverde is doing the bare minimum to maximise our potential, because he is still stuck with that defensive stagnant mindset, especially with no intentions of utilising counter attacking. No real system to teamplay as well.

There simply isnt gonna be a much of difference this season.
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If you're talking in general, it's fine. If you're replying to me, always find ways to read something into my posts. :lol: I said there Valverde had resorted for a defensive approach in big matches (last season) and that it wouldn't be the same this one since (1) we lost Paulinho (2) our formation has changed. Approach-wise, I expect it to be different. But doubt there will be a breakthrough. You said it yourself, looks similar to Lucho's, not Valverde's last season's tactics.
 
Raketa10

Raketa10

Senior Member
Danic said:
So garrus tell me.
Im a fan of barca for many years now. Im not a fan cause barca won many titles. Its more the way they played football.
I just can remember a time in all this years where i was bored more frome our games then now. So i have the right of being unsatisfied with valverdes work.
Yeah ofc we won the double. Honestly, i would rather lose lets say copa del ray but win laliga with playing nice entertaining football.
I dont say we should win every game with firework, we never did that. But now its the other way round.

There were several games last year like yesterday where we only won thanks to our opponent who made horrendous mistakes and not cause we played great ootball or deserved it.
Ofc there are those games where u play bad and stilll win. And u have to to win Laliga.
But in our case this happened way too often last season.

We are playing pretty much a 08/15(we say in germany for average) game right now. No pressing, rearely nice combinations, a long ball here and there. Shaky defense work. No real tactic at all.
How can someone be satisied with this? From a club like barcelona?
Im missing the whole fire in our team. Most players look so oversaturated. Everything is slow.
There is almost no movement in our front. We are always waiting until our opponent is completely organized again and then hope players like Cou get something going....

I tell you one thing. This whole building stands on a shaky ground.
Fow no we are saved by a great keeper, luck and players like Cou and messi.
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This is 100% true!

It's clear as a day we won't win CL this season with Valverde on the bench. No way in hell! I am willing to bet anyone here who thinks differently. I would also like to emphasize that we have a great squad this season with respectable depth but our manager doesn't have a clue what to do with all those players. It's really sad that we were willing to spend hundreds of millions on players in the last couple of years but our only condition when we are looking for a new manager is that he has a "Barca DNA" and knows how to talk Spanish!? :facepalm: I would really like to ask our board what that "Barca DNA" means in Valverde's case?

We all need to stop bashing our players. Suarez this Suarez that, Pique this Pique that etc... It's NOT about players, we have maybe the best squad in the world or at least one of top 5 squads in the world but we have no clear system. Our tactics could maybe benefit Inter, Atletico or Juventus but for sure not Barcelona! It's all about our manager who has no character and who is way over his head in this. From day one it was clear he doesn't know how to manage a team as big as Barca or players as great as Messi or Coutinho. There is actually no need for deeper analysis of our current situation. It's actually pretty obvious where is the problem.
 
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henias

henias

New member
Joan Laporta said:
If you're talking in general, it's fine. If you're replying to me, always find ways to read something into my posts. :lol: I said there Valverde had resorted for a defensive approach in big matches (last season) and that it wouldn't be the same this one since (1) we lost Paulinho (2) our formation has changed. Approach-wise, I expect it to be different. But doubt there will be a breakthrough. You said it yourself, looks similar to Lucho's, not Valverde's last season's tactics.
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There's still Vidal tho. Yeah it's a little different but does that mean it's good? Not much of an improvement is what I'm trying to say. He only reused Lucho's tactics and then resort to subbing out Semedo when things arent working out, when a goal is scored in a narrow scoreline then subbing in Vidal to hopefully "hold the score". That would hardly kill opponents in away game even if it's "different".

I dont think that's a solid gameplan and would easily be dismantled by CL opponents. I dont see a point in defending him, really. And you bringing up the Juventus 3-0 game as a defence is also kind of wrong because that was something fresh and new which Valverde ditched it somehow, and never really put that to the test. That was something I liked as well.

And BTW, I'm also replying to your post saying debate's always starting and ending with Roma, but I'm too lazy to quote it.
 
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Cule4life

Cule4life

The Culest
soul24rage said:
If our starting 11 is a 433 with Cou, Busi and Rakitic in midifeld and Dembele, Suarez and Messi as our front three, that would mean that opponents are going to attack our right side since Messi doesn't defend and Rakitic will have to cover that space to help our RB so it's going to be a 4 MFs anyways with Cou and Busi in the middle and Dembele helping the LB. The only way that I could think of to counter this is if Suarez drop deep to help Cou and Busi in midfield and use Messi as an attacking outlet whenever the team wins back possession.
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With a RB who can actually defend (aka Semedo) that won't be that big a problem. And Arthur-Busi-Cou MF is better to maintain control.

Joan Laporta said:
As long as every debate's going to start and and end with the match in Rome... we're not going places.
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As long as every debate's going to start and and end with "but but results"... we're not going places
 
Raketa10

Raketa10

Senior Member
Let's be honest here. Who the f... wants to watch the type of football we are currently playing? The story ends there.
 
Joan

Joan

Well-known member
henias said:
There's still Vidal tho. Yeah it's a little different but does that mean it's good? Not much of an improvement is what I'm trying to say. He only reused Lucho's tactics and then resort to subbing out Semedo when things arent working out, when a goal is scored in a narrow scoreline then subbing in Vidal to hopefully "hold the score". That would hardly kill opponents in away game even if it's "different".
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If he approaches big matches with Coutinho-Busquets-Rakitić-Vidal midfield in 4-4-2, it will be the same as last year. Doubt that's the case, however. That's what I meant by 'different'. Nothing else. Will his approach to big matches be good this season? Don't know. Need to wait for the first big match.
I dont think that's a solid gameplan and would easily be dismantled by CL opponents. I dont see a point in defending him, really. And you bringing up the Juventus 3-0 game as a defence is also kind of wrong because that was something fresh and new which Valverde ditched it somehow, and never really put that to the test. That was something I liked as well.

And BTW, I'm also replying to your post saying debate's always starting and ending with Roma, but I'm too lazy to quote it.
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You're mixing the past with the present here. This and last season. I wasn't talking about the current one since, in my opinion, it's too early. We've been experimenting with 2 different setups, 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1. Need to see how that develops. Serghei claimed (was too lazy to quote, just like you now :lol:) his approach to big matches 'was all over the place' last season. With which I disagree. Most big matches were approached seriously, especially in the league and Copa. That his approach stopped working against Roma and that he didn't react, that's also correct. But it doesn't imply his approach was all over the place for other big matches. Since it yielded deserved results (having Atletico, Real, copa final matches in mind).
 
FCBfan22

FCBfan22

Senior Member
He needs to start using the whole pitch. We have 3 players who are incredible in beating opponents 1 on 1 (Leo, Cou, Dembouz), but are now compressed in the left side of the pitch, because of the tactics we are currently employing.

If you have one dribbler in the centre, one of the left and one on the right, that's straight trouble for opponents. We should really think about 4-2-3-1 and order Suarez to press like never before. That's the only way I can see us doing something in CL.
 
Vilarrubi

Vilarrubi

New member
George_Costanza said:
The only match I enjoyed watching under Velvarde was the Copa Del Rey final. I don't think I enjoyed any other matches including the clasico.
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One of the Girona games last season we looked amazing too lol.. but yeah other than that we are boring to watch a lot of the time.. it’s crazy saying that.
 
henias

henias

New member
Joan Laporta said:
If he approaches big matches with Coutinho-Busquets-Rakitić-Vidal midfield in 4-4-2, it will be the same as last year. Doubt that's the case, however. That's what I meant by 'different'. Nothing else. Will his approach to big matches be good this season? Don't know. Need to wait for the first big match.

You're mixing the past with the present here. This and last season. I wasn't talking about the current one since, in my opinion, it's too early. We've been experimenting with 2 different setups, 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1. Need to see how that develops. Serghei claimed (was too lazy to quote, just like you now :lol:) his approach to big matches 'was all over the place' last season. With which I disagree. Most big matches were approached seriously, especially in the league and Copa. That his approach stopped working against Roma and that he didn't react, that's also correct. But it doesn't imply his approach was all over the place for other big matches. Since it yielded deserved results (having Atletico, Real, copa final matches in mind).
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His approach will be more or less the same as you are seeing at the start of this season. Knowing Valverde, there wont be another big change and doesnt really have a solid backup plan as well.

We have more or less used 4231 last season as well. Formations are one thing, how u line the players up is also crucial.

People do get the impression we are a solid unit at the back but in reality we arent quite the case. We are not built that way, and are in fact very shaky at the back. Results are results but if these problems are so glaring in so many matches that you cant ignore that and say "at least we got the result". If it's just 1 or 2 bad matches, that's okay. But this is what I see week in week out then sry, I simply cant deceive myself.

I'm pretty sure most big matches are always taken seriously, regardless EV or not. But EV's lack of knowledge and adaptabilility has cost him big time. This season is equally bad considering it's Lucho's outdated tactics, and mixed with the same slow conservative sub to defend the lead.

And this is what your whole argument is based on: results. You willingly hope we get results playing with such a non-system and questionable gameplan. I can tell you for sure, it wont work when we reach the tougher stages of the competition. You can't scrape through games all the time.

That's the truth. But if you insists and hope for a miracle, then go ahead. I dont want to burst your bubble but that's just my opinion. Time will still tell.
 
Joan

Joan

Well-known member
henias said:
His approach will be more or less the same as you are seeing at the start of this season. Knowing Valverde, there wont be another big change and doesnt really have a solid backup plan as well.

We have more or less used 4231 last season as well. Formations are one thing, how u line the players up is also crucial.
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Let's not pretend 4-2-3-1 with real wingers in Dembele and Coutinho is 'more or less' a 4-4-2 with Paulinho and Iniesta.
I'm pretty sure most big matches are always taken seriously, regardless EV or not. But EV's lack of knowledge and adaptabilility has cost him big time. This season is equally bad considering it's Lucho's outdated tactics, and mixed with the same slow conservative sub to defend the lead.

And this is what your whole argument is based on: results. You willingly hope we get results playing with such a non-system and questionable gameplan. I can tell you for sure, it wont work when we reach the tougher stages of the competition. You can't scrape through games all the time.

That's the truth. But if you insists and hope for a miracle, then go ahead. I dont want to burst your bubble but that's just my opinion. Time will still tell.
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1. - I highlighted a word there, 'deserved'. That's how you measure success in big matches. Results + state on the pitch. Big matches about which I'm talking - Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, final with Sevilla - were deserved victories.
2. Bolded. Nothing of it was in my initial post. I'm not talking about this season or what's to come. All I said about it is that I personally don't expect a similar approach (4-4-2 with 4 midfielders). Nothing else. There's no argument which you're mentioning.

Look here:
Joan Laporta said:
You're mixing the past with the present here. This and last season. I wasn't talking about the current one since, in my opinion, it's too early. We've been experimenting with 2 different setups, 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1. Need to see how that develops.
Click to expand...
 
MagIX

MagIX

Senior Member
Mitchell1978 said:
I think playing 4-2-3-1 (with Coutinho on the left, Messi behind Suarez and Dembele on the right) might be a better option then the 4-3-3 like barça is doing at the moment.

Might make the team more balanced and better structured.
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I do not think that it's a question of 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2...
It's very appealing and mediatic to play with Messi, Suarez, Coutinho and Demeble together, but for me it's not realistic to play with them in big matches: we'd be too fragile in midfield and also defensively and there would be another shameful defeat as vs Roma.
We have very good players in the team. Taken them individually, they are very good. But I m not sure if we can build a team on them, if they're the right players for the right positions, if we can form a well-balanced team.
 
B

Barcilliant

Senior Member
😃 We have such a talented squad and Valverde still can't figure out how to build a functional team that plays decent football. Wouldn't be surprised if we exit early.
 
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