Ernesto Valverde - V1

Icarium said:

It was really bad, probably the worst in a decade. If Madrid did not play that bad the begining considering injuries and fitness and all valverde woudnt be at Barca right now.

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Barca had to compete with very good Atleti under a great manager and won it with all the La liga sides showing massive improvement with new tv deals ( Bilbao being an exception ) . Madrid always starts like that every season , except Ancelotti's last season . He out classed Zidane in Bernabue with Paulinho . No it wasn't all down to Messi . Give credits were it's due

RMU ReBorn said:

Barca had to compete with very good Atleti under a great manager and won it with all the La liga sides showing massive improvement with new tv deals ( Bilbao being an exception ) . Madrid always starts like that every season , except Ancelotti's last season . He out classed Zidane in Bernabue with Paulinho . No it wasn't all down to Messi . Give credits were it's due

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Yet somehow in the 2 instances Messi didnt play/start this Barca got dominated by Sevilla and Levante.

messi2140 said:

Yet somehow in the 2 instances Messi didnt play/start this Barca got dominated by Sevilla and Levante.

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Even with Messi we got outclassed against Eibar away as well . Reason why we got away was because of Messi and our defense . Our defense got better under EV only . . There has been instances were teams dominated us in phases and our defense held their nerve . Sevilla /Valencia / Celta /Sociedad away has always been a tough fixture . Lost 1-2 when Messi was injured in 2015 , He saved us after Sevilla literally dominating first 30 minutes in Lucho's last season , drawn 2-2 in treble season . Why don't you give credit for ending Anoeta curse after going 0-2 down ? . We cameback after conceding so many times , in last season . Wouldn't have happened under Lucho .

messi2140 said:

Yet somehow in the 2 instances Messi didnt play/start this Barca got dominated by Sevilla and Levante.

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More than Messi didnt pay vs Levante and team scored four anyway so it was on the defensive side not attacking.

Barca drew 0-0 away to Juve without Messi, beat Malaga away, beat Sociedad at home, drew away to Celta, beat Sporting at home etc so no they did get dominated whenever Messi didnt play.

Barcaman said:

No, we didn't play well. As a matter a fact it was worst football in more than a decade and a half.

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Icarium said:

It was really bad, probably the worst in a decade. If Madrid did not play that bad the begining considering injuries and fitness and all valverde woudnt be at Barca right now.

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Regarding that "decade" thing, an interesting coincidence is that in majority of that time, since we started to play nice again (2nd half of a 2003/04 season), we had:
1. Xavi
2. Xavi, young Iniesta and young Messi
3. Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Dani Alves and young Busquets

4 out of 5 key players were "gifts" from La Masia and one of a kind players.
In our WHOLE HISTORY as a club, when exactly have we played that nice and winning trophies?

1. a few years under Cruijff in early 90s, 4 La ligas + 1 Cl
2. Van Gaal, 2 La Ligas

Besides that, we played like under Valverde.
From my memories about Barca:
1994, 95, 96: Cruijff's team in past their prime years
1997: one man team with R9
1997-2000: Van Gaal, Dutch football, with a lot of physical (and technical), tall players with lots of crosses. Current fans would cause riots if we would play that way.
Early 2000s: a horrible team with only one bright spot: Rivaldo
2004: Rijkaard&Ronaldinho&Xavi
You know the story after that.

So, imo, we played uglier than in the last 10 years (but: we had Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Busquets during those years).
Did we played uglier than in other Barca's before 2004? Not too much.

Will we ever again be able to replicate a similar football, WITHOUT Xavi/Iniesta/Messi?
An interesting question...

Maybe we have already witnessed our best days as Barca's fans and none team in the future will come close to it.
It doesn't mean that we won't be one of top 5-6 clubs in Europe...

Doesn't change the fact that our squad is badly managed and all the money squandered on flops like Gomes and Arda. Forget being as good as pep team, we are barely able to compete in CL. Last three years were a dissapointment, especially last season the way we lost it to a team like roma. It hurts considering how much more money Barca has and add the best player ever to the team. Valverde did not impress me so far, he needs to do a lot more to do that. I am not saying he should be sacked but he should start doing better job and make the team play better.

Icarium said:

Doesn't change the fact that our squad is badly managed and all the money squandered on flops like Gomes and Arda. Forget being as good as pep team, we are barely able to compete in CL. Last three years were a dissapointment, especially last season the way we lost it to a team like roma. It hurts considering how much more money Barca has and add the best player ever to the team. Valverde did not impress me so far, he needs to do a lot more to do that. I am not saying he should be sacked but he should start doing better job and make the team play better.

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The squad is not worse than Ateltico, Juve or Roma who have been knocked out by.

Been a combination of poor tactical choices and players underperforming in CL more than quality of squad as main factor.

RMU ReBorn said:

Even with Messi we got outclassed against Eibar away as well . Reason why we got away was because of Messi and our defense . Our defense got better under EV only . . There has been instances were teams dominated us in phases and our defense held their nerve . Sevilla /Valencia / Celta /Sociedad away has always been a tough fixture . Lost 1-2 when Messi was injured in 2015 , He saved us after Sevilla literally dominating first 30 minutes in Lucho's last season , drawn 2-2 in treble season . Why don't you give credit for ending Anoeta curse after going 0-2 down ? . We cameback after conceding so many times , in last season . Wouldn't have happened under Lucho .

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Dominated was the wrong word to use on my part. I should rather say that Barcelona has been underwhelming in most La liga games bar a few ( vs Girona comes to mind). Sevilla and Levante just showed how worse last season Could have been if it wasn't for Messi.

There is not much credit to give to valverde in general when you had Messi bailing him out most games. Didnt play attractive football , didnt intergrate new signings , didnt play youth players . questionable subs (gomes against Roma being a prime example)etc... Next season with the Rumoured arrival of Willian and Rabiot wont be any different.

Icarium said:

Doesn't change the fact that our squad is badly managed and all the money squandered on flops like Gomes and Arda. Forget being as good as pep team, we are barely able to compete in CL. Last three years were a dissapointment, especially last season the way we lost it to a team like roma. It hurts considering how much more money Barca has and add the best player ever to the team. Valverde did not impress me so far, he needs to do a lot more to do that. I am not saying he should be sacked but he should start doing better job and make the team play better.

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Pep has done fuck all in Cl with out Xavi , Iniesta and Messi , despite spending shotload of money with city and Bayern

messi2140 said:

Dominated was the wrong word to use on my part. I should rather say that Barcelona has been underwhelming in most La liga games bar a few ( vs Girona comes to mind). Sevilla and Levante just showed how worse last season Could have been if it wasn't for Messi.

There is not much credit to give to valverde in general when you had Messi bailing him out most games. Didnt play attractive football , didnt intergrate new signings , didnt play youth players . questionable subs (gomes against Roma being a prime example)etc... Next season with the Rumoured arrival of Willian and Rabiot wont be any different.

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Don't remember a season were Messi wasn't influencial in our league win, since 2009

Getting his wish with Willian.

CL or bust.

No excuses this time around. Anything other than a CL title and this signing have been a massive failure.

DonAK said:

Getting his wish with Willian.

CL or bust.

No excuses this time around. Anything other than a CL title and this signing have been a massive failure.

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Aye its all on Willian...

Of course I am going to support Valverde this season, but I honestly cannot wait for Quique Setién to be our manager. With European experience, he is going to be an exciting one.

I'll support the team but i cant support this fraud of a manager. im predicting 2nd in the league behind Atleti, round 16 exit in the CL and probably a Copa final vs Atleti/Madrid which could go either way

Givenchy said:

I'll support the team but i cant support this fraud of a manager. im predicting 2nd in the league behind Atleti, round 16 exit in the CL and probably a Copa final vs Atleti/Madrid which could go either way

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fraud of a manager who has a Europa leage final to his Cv managing Espanyol ,meanwhile there is Pep who hasn't been part of a CL final without Messi Xavi and Iniesta

RMU ReBorn said:

fraud of a manager who has a Europa leage final to his Cv managing Espanyol ,meanwhile there is Pep who hasn't been part of a CL final without Messi Xavi and Iniesta

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where did i say anything about Pep?

EV is out of his depth and that will be exposed in la liga aswell this season with a stronger Atleti.