BBZ8800
Senior Member
The defensive solidity mostly comes from Busquets and Rakitic. We wouldn't lose much on that front taking off Paulinho/Gomes, who don't add anything anyway, for Dembele.
Paulinho was doing more defensively for Chelsea than he was for us
Defensive strength comes from way more players than defense+Busquets+Rakitic.
The same as how our attack is NOT the same when you play Messi&Suarez and Iniesta-Coutinho-Dembele behind them and when you play Rakitic-Gomes-Paulinho behind them.
So, our defense, stability and balance is way more than Busi and Raki.
Well, this is just my impression after watching all Barca's CL's seasons since 1994's final when we lost the first time in such a naive and classic Barca's way.
After that, in my years of following Barca, we managed to win CL in:
2009 and 2011, which I can't take seriously since we played with aliens in our team and we had tactics whom opponents haven't figured out yet.
So, that era was one of a kind and I can't take it into a consideration since we'll never have players even of the similar quality, and that tactic will never work again in that manner.
Other than that, in all other years when we played Barca's all out attack naive way, we never won a CL.
Our only 2 other CL wins came in 2006, when Rijkaard played in a CL (not in La Liga that much) quite similar to a current Valverde.
Look at our 433 in a first KO matche against Chelsea in 2006.
** We lost in 2005 against them, and in 2005 we played too naive and too attacking with Deco, Xavi, Gerard Lopez, Iniesta and similar.
In 2006, this was our lineup in an away match (first match):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/4731518.stm
Barcelona: Valdes,
Oleguer, Marquez, Puyol, Van Bronckhorst (Sylvinho 69),
Edmilson, Motta (Larsson 65), Deco (Iniesta 84)
Eto'o, Ronaldinho, Messi
Subs Not Used: Jorquera, Belletti, Ezquerro, Van Bommel.
Edmilson, Motta, Deco midfield.
This is almost a double pivot CDM duo plus Deco.
And Deco was more defensive than Iniesta, for example.
Imagine if today EV would play 433 with some crazy CDM midfield duo.
Also, we had 2 workhorses in midfield then.
186cm tall Edmilson and 187cm tall Motta.
Oh, and our RB was Oleguer.
A current analogy would have been: something like Mathieu at a LB.
So, we had 3 CBs in a 4 men defense, and only 1 fullback (Bronckhorst), plus 2 workhorses as a double pivot in midfield infront of them.
Again, imagine today Mathieu or Vermaelen as a fullback, Pique and Umtiti as Cbs and only 1 fullback.
And 2 workhorses as a double pivot.
Younger guys on this forum would suffer a stroke right away.
We won 2:1 on Stamford Bridge and in an 2nd match at Camp Nou, we played equally as defensive again and played 1:1:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/4778194.stm
In semis against Milan, who were a finalists in 2005, this is how we played in the first away match:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ac-milan_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/53455
Again 3 Cbs and 2 workhorses in midfield. This time 186cm tall Edmilson and 187cm tall VanBommel.
Plus Iniesta since Deco was injured or suspended.
We played very cautious.
And scored a goal for 0:1 in the 57th minute.
And do you know what happened?
Rijkaard subbed off RW Guily (a scorer) for a RB Belletti after a goal, lol.
Imagine if EV did something like that.
So, we suddenly played with:
LB VanBronckhorst
CB Puyol
CB Marquez
CB Oleguer
RB Belletti
DCM Edmilson
DCM Van Bommel
CM Iniesta
Lw Ronaldinho
Cd Etoo
So, after a 0:1 lead, we turned into a 5 men defense and 2 Cdms informt of them.
Lol, isn't it?
But do you know what is funny?
The funny thing is that this cautious approach in a CL (we didn't play that way in La liga) brought us a first CL title since 1992.
And only our 2nd CL in 107 years of our club.
Our title in 2015 with Lucho and MSN is more like "Barca".
But the funny thing is, even then, in that season, we played an awesome defense under Lucho, Raki was babysitting for Alves (almost a double pivot CDMs again) and we played on counters.
So, I would dare to say, except in 2009 and 2011 when we were out of this world due to out of this world prime generation, in all other years of our history, our too attacking and too naive approach in a CL was an ultimate disaster.
Our only CL wins came with Rijkaard, as explained above, who played quite cautious as current EV.
And under Lucho when we had a very good defense, a double pivot and played on counters.
DonAndres told me on a chat on Saturday that I am pulling stats from my ass, lol.
I mean, can anyone pull one stat which shows how we are actually successful (a winning team in a CL) when we play too attacking (as we usually do)?
Also, since we all agree that we will never have players as good as in Busi-Xavi-Iniesta era, imo, everything implies that we will just lose in the same way as always if we'll play in Barca's too naive-too attacking way in a CL Knockout matches, especially in an away games.
Again, I don't have anything against attacking football and against 433.
But if someone can point seasons where it actually worked, I will be in your #team433 and #teamattack.
If anyone will reply with shitpost replies like:
1. we lost because Tito was ill
2. we lost because Tata was bad
3. we lost because Lucho was bad
4. we lost because we had a bad midfield
Well, a flashnews: we will never have too good midfield ever again.
And we'll never have Pep in his prime while his style worked perfectly.
I gave up from 433 and our attacking style in a CL matches, more or less.
While others like you probably think that 433 and attacking is fine: we just need a better midfielders and we will win a CL.
But then, if we'll play 433 in this season: we'll play Busi-Raki-Iniesta, lol.
How on Earth will that midfield win in an away CL matches?
So, people will say: midfield sucked.
Well, then DON'T play a 433, lol.
In the next season, we'll have a too attackingminded Coutinho and 2 turtles Raki and Busi.
How will that work again?
Unless you find new Xavi-Iniesta-Busi AND MESSI in his prime, I am very cautious how our too attacking approach will work in a CL matches.
This is why I have gave up from 433 and all out attack in a CL matches.
I had enough of that shit and defeats every season in an exactly the same fashion over and over.
One more time, I don't have anything against 433 with new players Coutinho and Dembele, in La Liga.
Since it can work in La Liga against midtable teams.
History is showing year after year how usually teams with good defenses (and a decent attack) are usually winning CLs.
That doesn't mean that you play with 10 defenders, since you'll never score.
But a defense is very important factor in a CL KO matches.
While Barca's philosophy is usually something like (my estimation): 80% attack, 20% defense.
Again, that worked only during Pep.
But as said 100s of times before, we had a perfect coach, a perfect once in a lifetime players, a perfect once in a lifetime tactic.
In this moment, we don't have none of those 3, so again, I have no idea how people are expecting that our classical tactic will suddenly work.
Last edited:
