Ernesto Valverde - V1

serghei said:

Season is long. Fluctuations can happen. We kept the lead in the end which is what matters. It was a great season overall, with some great periods, some good ones, and a bad couple of months. Madrid had a shit first half of the season and paid the price in the end, even though looking back, they shouldn't have lost at home to Atletico (0-1) with Zidane in charge.

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Shat the bed in almost all of the big games in spring, which was the original argument about your strength that season.

serghei said:

Maybe. However, Madrid have been having issues in the league, maintaining the same consistency after winning it the season before. 2 league titles in almost 10 years is bad. There was always a question mark about Madrid winning 2 back to back La Ligas, because it hasn't happened in a long time. Barca have been doing much better in the league and this is a fact that goes beyond Valverde, it has become more like the club's way of approaching the season. Let's not forget that we've won the league last season too almost, under one of our worst seasons in La Liga in quite a while.

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It's no secret RM rate CL more, because it's rated higher abroad. Ask any neutral anywhere outside of Spain what's the more prestigious of the two. Nobody would take 2 back-to-back Ligas over 2 back-to-back CL's. You'd have to be a bit mad. Lack of domestic dominance isn't something they care about in Madrid nearly as much as making sure they're the poster boys of Europe.

serghei said:

We've lost La Liga last season because we screwed up too many times vs the small teams. It was unlikely that this season it was going to happen again.

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Slot in Eusebio and you'd be having as much of a mare as we were for different reasons. No question there.

serghei said:

So, here is me saying Valverde isn't doing anything that hasn't been done before.

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Not what I'm arguing. I said he's doing it with that group of players. You couldn't blag any manager into it and convince people it's still the same Barcelona.

serghei said:

Clasico or not Supercup is in preseason where players are after a period of not playing any competitive matches. We've won the Supercopa and dominated Madrid in 2011-12, but clearly lost the league afterwards. One of the reasons not everyone is going to panic if the performances in the Supercup aren't as expected.

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It's not about panic or the lack of. The message was clear - Madrid were the better side for both matches where both teams treated it like a competition for the first time in a damn decade. And here you are writing it off like nobody even noticed

serghei said:

Didn't give enough game time to the new signings, and instead overplayed the older players. Even since Coutinho's been fit, Iniesta's played a lot, and it's no coincidence that he's gotten injured.

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What time? Dembele got brought in too early and got reinjured. Since then he featured in 3/5 matches. Absolutely adequate time for a 20 year old newbie who has no idea where he is and the only reason fans want him on the pitch is because of how much he cost.

Coutinho played in literally every game. Don't be like those idiots on here who think he can just slot into Iniesta role either because of what he used to do in Liverpool or because he has to for rotation. Ridiculous. Same thing applies. He plays enough.

Wolfe said:

Shat the bed in almost all of the big games in spring, which was the original argument about your strength that season.

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It can happen. Happened to Ancelotti's Madrid in 2014-2015.

Wolfe said:

It's no secret RM rate CL more, because it's rated higher abroad. Ask any neutral anywhere outside of Spain what's the more prestigious of the two. Nobody would take 2 back-to-back Ligas over 2 back-to-back CL's. You'd have to be a bit mad. Lack of domestic dominance isn't something they care about in Madrid nearly as much as making sure they're the poster boys of Europe.

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The ideal thing is to fight for both the same way. The fact that Madrid seem to be able to win the CL only by taking it easier in the league is a fault of theirs. Many fans have actually raised this issue, that Madrid fail to deliver on both fronts and usually can't cope with the stress of being involved on multiple fronts on a season by season basis. Which is why no one would actually rate this Madrid over 2009-12 Barcelona, even though their record in CL is better. Can't actually claim to be the best in Europe while ending 3rd in Spain. It doesn't compute.

Wolfe said:

Slot in Eusebio and you'd be having as much of a mare as we were for different reasons. No question there.

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Let's not go to Eusebio. He wasn't even highly rated as a Barca B manager

Wolfe said:

Not what I'm arguing. I said he's doing it with that group of players. You couldn't blag any manager into it and convince people it's still the same Barcelona.

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Different group of players. Just Neymar is missing with others added. Great squad nonetheless.

Wolfe said:

It's not about panic or the lack of. The message was clear - Madrid were the better side for both matches where both teams treated it like a competition for the first time in a damn decade. And here you are writing it off like nobody even noticed

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Both sides treated it like a competition. Valverde just came at the team though. I expected at the time that the team could recover in La Liga, and as it stood they never seemed to be troubled about those losses. The Supercup games weren't that important.

Wolfe said:

What time? Dembele got brought in too early and got reinjured. Since then he featured in 3/5 matches. Absolutely adequate time for a 20 year old newbie who has no idea where he is and the only reason fans want him on the pitch is because of how much he cost.

Coutinho played in literally every game. Don't be like those idiots on here who think he can just slot into Iniesta role either because of what he used to do in Liverpool or because he has to for rotation. Ridiculous. Same thing applies. He plays enough.

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Coutinho hasn't played enough. Dembele hasn't played enough either since he got back. if you keep Dembele off from the Atletico game, fine, but at least give him the start vs Las Palmas. Semedo played something like 60 mins in the whole February.

serghei said:

Madrid sacked Capello after he won the biggest trophy in 4 years of drought. What are you talking about?

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I've yet to see a person who thinks this was the right decision, so not sure why it is used in the argument.
And we played entertaining football under Lucho and people still thinks he is an idiot.

Wolfe said:

Madrid has absolutely nothing to do with this and had an entirely different philosophy under that board. And the one before for that matter.

Maybe if you let go of the stinking supporter ego shouting in your ear "they're not playing the way I want them to play!" you'll see the benefits of his approach. Valverde is the sole reason Barca have not had a meltdown post-Neymar. Valverde is the sole reason you're undefeated, because he turned a leaderless defense into a self-sustaining monolith despite rotations and injuries. Valverde is the sole reason your seemingly garbage transfer policy was turned around into a positive. Valverde is the sole reason the sort of bullshit that is being spewed out everywhere about this style never influences the pitch performances, because of his admirable conference handling and cutting through the bullshit as clean as a hot knife through butter. Valverde is the sole reason Suarez recovered from his poor spell in autumn.

There is absolutely nothing I can possibly think of you could whine about in your situation. Not a single completely negative result this season since Supercopa matches. Solid building for the future. What the hell is wrong with your fans these days?

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I agree with your point, but tbf past month or so was disappointing. Many points were lost and the attacking scheme hasn't been done well. fair concerns tbh

serghei said:

At Barcelona you get criticized for both results, and for how you play. You need to win trophies and play good football while doing it. Just one without the others won't cut it.

Besides, from Valverde's speech when he signed, he seemed to understand and accept this challenge all too well. Fans should make sure he doesn't forget what he singed up for. And if he continues to play this way, they won't hesitate to do that. Especially considering that parking the bus with a team made to play offensive football is walking on thin ice.

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1-People say a lot of things when they are introduced. Time for people to really ignore what this press conference and the shit that is said in it, but that will never happens.
2-This has been the case only since Pep, we have played pragmatic under many other coaches tbf.
I get people concerns and I have a lot of them now, but people hasn't been fair with their judgement with any Barca coach since 2012

We played pretty well in the first half, I actually said on the Chat that I hope we push for a second goal in the second half and not flat out sit back or so but in the second half that was what Valverde did and we sat back.

Felt like with Atletico forcing to attack more we could have gone for a second goal and may have scored but it is what it is I guess.

serghei said:

It can happen. Happened to Ancelotti's Madrid in 2014-2015.

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I don't think anybody attested to the strength of that Madrid team. Isco was deep in rotation, James was used deeper and wider than he likes while Ancelotti decided to make Kroos play all games of that season as a defensive mid. That was never going to end well.

serghei said:

Coutinho hasn't played enough. Dembele hasn't played enough either since he got back. if you keep Dembele off from the Atletico game, fine, but at least give him the start vs Las Palmas. Semedo played something like 60 mins in the whole February.

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They absolutely did. Neither had preseason with Barca, neither played in a 4-4-2 before and there is a lot at stake. No surprise for Valverde's choices.

Semedo seems like a Ceballos case. Something is fundamentally wrong with him and you've seen glimpses of it when he got chances.

[MENTION=11668]khaled_a_d[/MENTION]
You haven't lost any games you may have or deserved to lose. This makes that feeling of disappointment quite irrelevant really.

Ugly win, but we got the points. I think we are pretty much secured the league now.

I do not see us winning CL, to be honest, and finishing the season with two trophies is pretty good considering our start.

Amazing coach I hope he's the one that can make us invincible an undefeated season in the league

The Great One said:

Amazing coach I hope he's the one that can make us invincible an undefeated season in the league

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Yes, let's sacrifice the CL for MUH LEEG REKORDS and MUH COPA DEL REY.

That's basically what you're doing when you play 33 year old Iniesta in every game until he gets injured while cup-tied Coutinho sits on the bench.

Lelouch vi Britannia said:

Yes, let's sacrifice the CL for MUH LEEG REKORDS and MUH COPA DEL REY.

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It seems Holy Britannian Empire has hacked your keyboard lately.

Lelouch vi Britannia said:

Yes, let's sacrifice the CL for MUH LEEG REKORDS and MUH COPA DEL REY.

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a league and cup win in a season is a successful season no matter what and in particular with the league, i consider it less luck based and a great achievement.

idk why people assume a treble is the norm here

Nothanks said:

a league and cup win in a season is a successful season no matter what and in particular with the league, i consider it less luck based and a great achievement.

idk why people assume a treble is the norm here

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No need for a treble. Or even a CL. Just don't suck in it like we have in the past few seasons. Sacrifice the mickey mouse trophy for it if necessary. Not the other way round.

CL is the most important competition by far with La Liga being second. Cdr is irrelevant in comparison. Would much rather win La Liga by 2 points and win(/not suck in) the CL than win La Liga with 100 points and get battered 7-0 by Bayern.

Treble being basically impossible to win is actually an argument against going all in on the CDR, not for.

I personally rather win the league then come 1 point short or lose at match day 38 than get to the semi finals in CL and "put on a good fight"
we are not playing bad football either or atleast by general standards.

Nothanks said:

idk why people assume a treble is the norm here

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Expectations more volatile than crude oil is truly the issue. Beginning of season people had 0 expectations and hoped we could just build towards future or Messi should leave for City if he doesn't want to waste his final years. Then once coach starts getting results people changed that expectation to at least winning the league would be a great achievement considering circumstances. Now that possiblity a treble is still open that has pretty much become the expectation.
Same coach that was expected to not do all that much at the beginning will now be a fraud if we end up with a doble and losing out on CL.

People will counter that with 'it's not just about the result but about the way we play'. Let's never forget we still have a squad with some players lacking individual quality or development at Barca. I am waiting for next season to pass judgement on the way we play once Semedo, Coutinho and Dembele are integrated and we'll also have Arthur further down the line.

As serghei and God S pointed out earlier in the season I do hope we'll see more of Barca B players.

Origami said:

Expectations more volatile than crude oil is truly the issue. Beginning of season people had 0 expectations and hoped we could just build towards future or Messi should leave for City if he doesn't want to waste his final years. Then once coach starts getting results people changed that expectation to at least winning the league would be a great achievement considering circumstances. Now that possiblity a treble is still open that has pretty much become the expectation.
Same coach that was expected to not do all that much at the beginning will now be a fraud if we end up with a doble and losing out on CL.

People will counter that with 'it's not just about the result but about the way we play'. Let's never forget we still have a squad with some players lacking individual quality or development at Barca. I am waiting for next season to pass judgement on the way we play once Semedo, Coutinho and Dembele are integrated and we'll also have Arthur further down the line.

As serghei and God S pointed out earlier in the season I do hope we'll see more of Barca B players.

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Semedo and Dembele won't be "integrated", stop parroting that crap. They'll be shafted for inferior players again and again until they've finally had enough and leave to go beast it somewhere else.

I'm not buying that he's trying to "integrate" them any more, he just doesn't like them because he's a fucking moron.

Dembele got the green light a month ago and he still played like one full game. In which we won 6-1 with him doing very well, but Valverde still dropped him the next game for Vidal because he's not "integrated" enough

Lelouch vi Britannia said:

Semedo and Dembele won't be "integrated", stop parroting that crap. They'll be shafted for inferior players again and again until they've finally had enough and leave to go beast it somewhere else.

I'm not buying that he's trying to "integrate" them any more, he just doesn't like them because he's a fucking moron.

Dembele got the green light a month ago and he still played like one full game. In which we won 6-1 with him doing very well, but Valverde still dropped him the next game for Vidal because he's not "integrated" enough

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