Ernesto Valverde - V1

Luftstalag14

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Stoichkov1 said:
I think we're so static mainly because of the way Barca plays and the players we have.

To break a bus you have 2 options:

1) Crosses with tall players who can use their head, just like Real Madrid

2) Dribblers who create chaos in the opponents' defence.

Our players are midgets and the second best dribbler in the world left us last summer, so it's no surprise we can't create any chances.
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True, goes to show how one-dimensional we are. How come we haven't done anything about it? How come we don't have a plan B? It is like we are just going to keep trying and trying what we can do and refuse to try anything else. Develop or buy a tall backup striker who is good with his head and play some crosses into the box once in a while, it certainly does not hurt. Practice long-range shots. Try to play the wings more. And for God's sake, move their asses and stop standing around there, make some off the ball runs!
 
FC433

FC433

New member
henias said:
Not when we are a heavy possession team. 442 simply doesnt suit our attacking style of play from day 1, we just risk ourselves to counter attacks passing constantly in the middle without any sort of width. When Messi drops deep it's almost like a 451. Look at how well Chelsea dismantled our defence in a few simple passes. It's not rocket science.

We arent that great defensively either, Chelsea looked both dangerous in counter attacks and buildup play. This is when you know something is wrong. We have zero aerial threat as well even if we cross the ball in to Suarez or Messi. We need width and push Chelsea deep in their halves.

We lost the balls in the middle so many times, Paulinho, Rakitic, because they were simply passing horizontally, without any players wide to poke at the defence. We are equally vulnerable so might as well just go for a 433
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Ture, but still we struggled with Pep too. CH managed to break our defence because they have very fast forwards who as well can dribble well and one "Hazard" of them is considered to be one of the best 5? players in the world playing against 4 players. I think it is only fair to expect them to make chances.

I also want to clear one thing, I am not saying that we should not do anything, but when we consider the start of the season and the types of players we have got, it is really not surprising. I said this before, we should secure the leauge because 7points is not that much.

Our chances of wining the CL is not really promising and if one expects anything it is really their fault. We can dream, but we have got to be very careful; otherwise the dream is going to be a nightmare.
 
ini4ever

ini4ever

Member
MagIX said:
4-3-3 we lost 4-0 vs PSG and 3-0 vs Juve....

4-4-3 or 4-3-3 that's not the problem, doesn't matter vs 11 defenders...
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Formations matter when you use wrong players in a system, we really don't have good wide midfielders in the squad, Maybe Roberto but no one else. We got Dembele so its better to start playing 433.
 
vlad

vlad

New member
Stoichkov1 said:
I think we're so static mainly because of the way Barca plays and the players we have.

To break a bus you have 2 options:

1) Crosses with tall players who can use their head, just like Real Madrid

2) Dribblers who create chaos in the opponents' defence.

Our players are midgets and the second best dribbler in the world left us last summer, so it's no surprise we can't create any chances.
Click to expand...

Its not really about dribbles so much, its about passing the ball, how fast are they doing that, barca is slow, when they have chamce for counter attack they are just so slow, you open defence with fast passing, switching sides, dribbling is overrated, what barca dont need is player who will hold the ball and slowing gameplay
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
MagIX said:
4-3-3 we lost 4-0 vs PSG and 3-0 vs Juve....

4-4-3 or 4-3-3 that's not the problem, doesn't matter vs 11 defenders...
Click to expand...

That’s what I told him... A parked bus is a parked bus. He also says that the 4-4-2 is better against counter attacks. It’s not!

Regarding the results. Stegen was beaten all ends up thrice. Post saved us twice.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
ini4ever said:
Formations matter when you use wrong players in a system, we really don't have good wide midfielders in the squad, Maybe Roberto but no one else. We got Dembele so its better to start playing 433.
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One of Suarez and Messi need to be dropped in La Liga too so Coutinho can play as the LW.
 
Lelouch vi Britannia

Lelouch vi Britannia

Banned
Needs to drop the 4-4-2. We only have 3 good midfielders and only one of them can play wide (Iniesta, and it's not his best position either).

Go 4-3-3:

Mats
Roberto/Semedo-Pique-Umtiti-Alba
Busquets
Rakitic-Iniesta/Coutinho
Dembele-Messi-Suarez

Or 4-2-3-1:
Mats
Roberto/Semedo-Pique-Umtiti-Alba
Busquets-Rakitic
Dembele-Messi-Iniesta/Coutinho
Suarez

I don't even think we'll lose much defensive stability because most of that comes from Busquets and Rakitic anyway. Just tell the wingers to track back a little.

Also, Semedo either needs to be given chances, sold, or Valverde fired for being a fucking moron. Guy looked great at the start of the season, no way he's that bad. If he is, sell him and get a new RB because Roberto isn't the answer.

Also, freaking rest Iniesta. We just got a 160m player who plays in his position.

Can't even pin the problems on Farto/Robert this time, they've made good signings lately other than Paulinho. EV needs to make use of them.
 
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henias

henias

New member
Stoichkov1 said:
Our players are midgets and the second best dribbler in the world left us last summer, so it's no surprise we can't create any chances.
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Not everything is about dribbles, incisive, quick passing and fast wide players are pivotal for our style of play. PSG suffered with Neymar, and we dont need two heavy dribblers to slow down our transitional play.
 
Joan

Joan

Well-known member
And what will happen after we return to 433? Midfield of Iniesta Busq and Raki, just as slow and just as bad as it was last season. We need a new player in the middle, someone who can run and is fast. And START rotating.
This same lineup had 2 days rest.
 
B

Barça Barça Barça

New member
A poor performance and a very fortunate result. With 3 weeks until the return leg he needs to get Dembele playing and with confidence that way we can go back to 4-3-3 and it will give us some pace to get in behind them, which we lacked tonight as everything was slow and in front of Chelsea. I'd also like to see Semedo given a run at right back giving Sergi the chance to play in his best position, we can then play a midfield 3 of Sergi, Busi and Iniesta with a front 3 of Messi, Dembele and Suarez. Having said that I would have taken 1-1 before the game and fancy us to get past them at the Camp Nou.
 
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MagIX

MagIX

Senior Member
MessiCam said:
That’s what I told him... A parked bus is a parked bus. He also says that the 4-4-2 is better against counter attacks. It’s not!

Regarding the results. Stegen was beaten all ends up thrice. Post saved us twice.
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If Messi Suarez Dembele defend like Hazard Pedro and Wilian have defended today, i go for the 4-3-3.
Regarding the results: yes, we have been lucky, but we weren't dominated and humiliated as we were against Juventus and PSG.

But honestly it seems to me that something is broken, we must make adjustments. I hope Valverde do it right once again.
 
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
I don't like the whole 433 or 442 debate tbh
As many coaches say, this isn't what happens on the pitch, they tell a player to move a few meters up or back and you have different formations. It is about the role they give to each player
Right now our problems aren't about 442 or 433, it is about the pace we are attacking, very passive possession isn't gonna work. If you want to play defensive then you need to be fast in attacking which isn't happening, only happened when they have done a mistake. Dembele and Coutinho would probably solve this issues next year but not this season and EV will need to raise his game.
And today we made same mistake 3 times and midfield didn't cover for shooting outside the box.
Using opponents defensive error is ok tactically, but when you are doing your work perfectly and have a plan B when you need it.
His worst game since super cup
 
Lelouch vi Britannia

Lelouch vi Britannia

Banned
khaled_a_d said:
I don't like the whole 433 or 442 debate tbh
As many coaches say, this isn't what happens on the pitch, they tell a player to move a few meters up or back and you have different formations. It is about the role they give to each player
Right now our problems aren't about 442 or 433, it is about the pace we are attacking, very passive possession isn't gonna work. If you want to play defensive then you need to be fast in attacking which isn't happening, only happened when they have done a mistake. Dembele and Coutinho would probably solve this issues next year but not this season and EV will need to raise his game.
And today we made same mistake 3 times and midfield didn't cover for shooting outside the box.
Using opponents defensive error is ok tactically, but when you are doing your work perfectly and have a plan B when you need it.
His worst game since super cup
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(Part of) The problem is Gomes/Paulinho/Vidal in the starting XI. They're just not good enough. Scrap that and start Dembele. We have some easy La Liga games before the return leg to integrate him.
 
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serghei

serghei

Senior Member
khaled_a_d said:
I don't like the whole 433 or 442 debate tbh
As many coaches say, this isn't what happens on the pitch, they tell a player to move a few meters up or back and you have different formations. It is about the role they give to each player
Right now our problems aren't about 442 or 433, it is about the pace we are attacking, very passive possession isn't gonna work. If you want to play defensive then you need to be fast in attacking which isn't happening, only happened when they have done a mistake. Dembele and Coutinho would probably solve this issues next year but not this season and EV will need to raise his game.
And today we made same mistake 3 times and midfield didn't cover for shooting outside the box.
Using opponents defensive error is ok tactically, but when you are doing your work perfectly and have a plan B when you need it.
His worst game since super cup
Click to expand...

Tbh, I rewatched Willian's shots. First one is Busi's fault. He is there in time but he is slow in 1 vs 1. He was always better at stoping players before they get in possession than at winning 1 vs 1s. So for the first shot, Willian is just quicker, he beats Busi and takes a great shot.

For the 2nd, you have Roberto doing one of his stupid clearances that you just don't know where they're gonna land. It lands to Willian, who is great again at shooting almost without any preparation. Just quick touch and shoot. And with power not some mellow attempt.

For the 3rd, this is just a tactical fuck up, probably from Busi as well. You just don't go overcrowding the box because a smart player like Hazard is not just a crossing robot like Deulofeu. As soon as our players anticipate the cross, Hazard sees Willian unmarked, who does what he did in the first two chances only better.

So, I blame Busi and Roberto for most of the defensive problems in this game.
 
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