Ernesto Valverde - V1

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
The only way Messi will play more on the right is if you have a fullback and RCM that can advance the ball forward to him in better positions. Right now our RBs and RCM, usually Rakitic, are trash, yes, trash at just that. They need Messi to hold their hand for them to be able to do anything offensively unless they of course are given acres of space, which most teams won't give us, or other top teams.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Sarri has an equally well documented set of issues of chequered dealings with his higher ups, rotations and lack of pedigree to fall back on when squad goes rogue. He needs to win shit or consistently get far in the CL before he gets a shot on the elite level.

There's no winning 'shit' if you don't have good enough players. He's never managed a title winning team so far. Managed Napoli when up against a much superior Juve, and now Chelsea up against 2 better teams in City and Liverpool.

He could maybe win a FA Cup or such, or an Europa League. That's about it considering the squad he has.

They were the better than AM, Chelsea (top of group) and were better than us and handled Liverpool better than any team in two games tie and yet people think Bayern (lol) City (big lol) or Juve were better than them last year
Roma had the best campaign of their history, we underestimated them -both fans and the club- but they played great tournament through out the whole year, was 2nd most impressive team after Liverpool and 3rd best (for me at least) in the tournament.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't have won the tie, we were shit ourselves

Wow. You think Roma were better than Juventus last season? Seriously? Roma weren't better than AM. AM fucked up vs Qarabag. AM took 4 points out of 6 vs Roma conceding 0 goals.

Handled Liverpool by way of conceding 5 in an hour on Anfield. Then got back into it once Liverpool relaxed and underestimated them. Roma was a good team, that were underestimated twice by both Barcelona and Liverpool. Barca got toast, while Liverpool were too far ahead to be surprised. That's it. City, Bayern, Juventus, would've beaten them probably.
 
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khaled_a_d

Senior Member
There's no winning 'shit' if you don't have good enough players. He's never managed a title winning team so far. Managed Napoli when up against a much superior Juve, and now Chelsea up against 2 better teams in City and Liverpool.

He could maybe win a FA Cup or such, or an Europa League. That's about it considering the squad he has.



Wow. You think Roma were better than Juventus last season? Seriously? Roma weren't better than AM. AM fucked up vs Qarabag. AM took 4 points out of 6 vs Roma conceding 0 goals.

Handled Liverpool by way of conceding 5 in an hour on Anfield. Then got back into it once Liverpool relaxed and underestimated them. Roma was a good team, that were underestimated twice by both Barcelona and Liverpool. Barca got toast, while Liverpool were too far ahead to be surprised. That's it. City, Bayern, Juventus, would've beaten them probably.

In CL? Roma was sure better than Juve, no doubt.
And no, Roma wasn't as bad as you are making it against Liverpool in 1st leg and also dominant in 2nd one, they were way better than Chelsea in both legs too.
I mean the whole team has relaxed can be said on why Juve & Bayern wasn't embarrassed home and away against RM, and no, I don't really think those teams were gonna beaten them as you think.


Edit: Regarding Sarri, he had 2nd best team in Calcio and lead them to 2nd place, had 3rd best team in EPL and they are 4th place, that doesn't make him tier 1 coach, good one but not on bar with likes of Simeone,Pep & Klopp. If there is Italian coach to be put in such list then Allegri and may be Conte are more deserving
 
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serghei

Senior Member
In CL? Roma was sure better than Juve, no doubt.
And no, Roma wasn't as bad as you are making it against Liverpool in 1st leg and also dominant in 2nd one, they were way better than Chelsea in both legs too.
I mean the whole team has relaxed can be said on why Juve & Bayern wasn't embarrassed home and away against RM, and no, I don't really think those teams were gonna beaten them as you think.

What do you mean in CL? How can you know which team is better than which if they didn't play the same teams and didn't play each other either? All we know is that Juventus were better than Roma because Juve won the title and Roma ended up 3rd many points behind them.

Every team that goes farther than another one is automatically better in CL? Juventus for example went out vs the winners. For all we know they could've been the 2nd best team in the CL and just happened to play the best.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Juventus were better than Roma because Juve won the title and Roma ended up 3rd many points behind them.

Every team that goes farther than another one is automatically better in CL?

No, we don't. League is a totally different competition. CL isn't for League winners only for a reason. RM has won 1 league in same year of CL only once out of 7 trophies in 8 year, it didn't mean that other
 

serghei

Senior Member
No, we don't. League is a totally different competition. CL isn't for League winners only for a reason. RM has won 1 league in same year of CL only once out of 7 trophies in 8 year, it didn't mean that other

If Roma played Juventus in CL they would've been knocked out. Simple as that. Juve are simply a better team, both in CL and in La Liga. The format of the competition counts, but not as to make up that big of a difference in quality.
 

Givenchy

Senior Member
Such loaded statements thrown around.



Ah. So trophies don't matter. Won in an opponent-less league and against pub teams in the cup. Gotcha.



Who has he made worse? Literally no player 30+ applies here and you have about 6 or 8 of them featuring regularly, it's a natural arc to get worse at that age, particularly physically and in regard to effort, or if you were average in the first place. Semedo wasn't any better with Benfica and he's not even bad, just average. Ter Stegen improved. Arthur improved. Dembele is improving and got a start despite being fined a few days prior. No space for Coutinho anywhere in that lineup that necessitates presence of an old and slow DM so how can you judge the guys progress? So who is this you're referring to.

People still not getting a reality check and sipping that kool-aid thinking a manager with more positive football would be the fix to problems, or that top managers will (1) want to come to manage this Barca team and at the same time (2) abandon their current projects where they're getting praised for their work.

Deary me.

I never said trophies don't matter but you put Poch in charge of this Barca team and he wont have us playing shit on a stick football like we are and he'd walk laliga with how pathetic Madrid and Atleti are lately, infact Moyes would win laliga this season.

WHO keeps playing that old, slow DM? EV does
WHO keeps playing Rakitic one shitshow after another with no rest? EV
WHO plays Rafinha on the wing when you have 40mil Malcom ready to go? EV
WHO puts Bob back in at RB despite Semedo doing well? EV
WHO is the ball-less wanker who won't bench Suarez in clown mode? EV

I should of worded the 'makes our players worse' what i meant was his system is shit so its natural our players end up shit

I realize its funny for a Madrid fan that we are trapped with this tit of a manager but please
 
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khaled_a_d

Senior Member
If Roma played Juventus in CL they would've been knocked out. Simple as that. Juve are simply a better team, both in CL and in La Liga. The format of the competition counts, but not as to make up that big of a difference in quality.

they didn't show that in CL last year unfortunately

Edit: And just to be clear, I never said Roma was 3rd best team in Europe, what I said they were 3rd best teams based on their performances, on games in the tournament that was actually played. Nothing hypothetical
 
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El Gato

Villarato!
There's no winning 'shit' if you don't have good enough players. He's never managed a title winning team so far. Managed Napoli when up against a much superior Juve, and now Chelsea up against 2 better teams in City and Liverpool.

He could maybe win a FA Cup or such, or an Europa League. That's about it considering the squad he has.

Title winning team is no achievement and shouldn't be treated as such, it's no charity, ridiculous to even suggest fundamentalists should be put on a pedestal for just that. Van Gaal built title winning teams and still by fan standards failed miserably in any top tier job he had.
Nor does it put Sarri in a more positive light or provide an excuse given Napoli were competitive in the league for several years before he got there.

Doesn't matter what he wins, so long as he wins something. Simeone would have nothing going for him as a robust defensive drillmaster if not for his near immediate results winning a minor title and best league finish for Atleti in 17 years after 1.5 years in the job. He'd be a nobody if for 7 years he didn't go toe to toe with Real and Barca both having some of the strongest squads in their history. It's what separates such managers from mid-to-upper tier and why Sarri is a questionable choice to say the least and a doubtful improvement over anything you already have. What experiences could he possibly use as leverage to pick up a struggling Barcelona side in terrible circumstances? He has nothing, hasn't even played the game himself, can't relate to almost anything a player feels in such moment, especially one that has gone to the top of the mountain a bunch of times like 3/4 of your seniors did.

Coutinho is still only a shadow of the player of Liverpool , same with Dembele . We just picked a lucky diamond in Arthur . I give Valverde no credit at all for him .

Every player is playing under par apart from maybe Messi who sometimes doesn't even look interested occasionally.

And there are reasons for it. They can barely play together, much less in the same offensive line with Messi.

There is no luck factor with Arthur either. He compliments Busquets well and Rakitić is very agreeable, beta player who will do whatever he's told (to his detriment a lot of the time). The only luck and the lack thereof he's had is to do with Messi and Roma. All else is damage control with a drab and old squad.

I never said trophies don't matter but you put Poch in charge of this Barca team and he wont have us playing shit on a stick football like we are and he'd walk laliga with how pathetic Madrid and Atleti are lately, infact Moyes would win laliga this season.

So what? You'd rather play good football win nothing and feel good about yourself having not really achieved anything of note while you have an ageing GOAT? Please.

WHO keeps playing that old, slow DM? EV does
As opposed to an alternative? Your only other player capable of being a proper holding midfielder who won't stand-off a tackle was sold in winter 2017. Hence why you went and bought a guy who does that, but also has the silly 'raging bull' style that isn't fit for that purpose.

WHO keeps playing Rakitic one shitshow after another with no rest? EV
As above? Vidal? Sure. If he can be consistent that is.

WHO plays Rafinha on the wing when you have 40mil Malcom ready to go? EV
Maybe. Rafinha ain't exactly a horrible player and none of us know why Malcom was/is being overlooked. I'd always give the manager a benefit of the doubt on young mercurial signings as half the time they end up being like Isco was when he first joined.

And even if you play Malcom, where do you do it? If you assume Messi occupies the middle then you bench one of Dembele/Coutinho. Problem remains.

WHO puts Bob back in at RB despite Semedo doing well? EV
He's fine. Or maybe he isn't. Nor is Semedo who was utter shite going forward for a while knowing you need an Alves figure with Messi being at his best in a 'free electron' role. Can't clone Alba though. Ain't the manager who should make his mind up here either. Get better at scouting the players you need. Hiring Abidal was a good step towards that. Even Klopp doesn't exactly have the luxury to watch thousands of tapes of talents he'd like to bring to Liverpool.

WHO is the ball-less wanker who won't bench Suarez in clown mode? EV
Lol.

I should of worded the 'makes our players worse' what i meant was his system is shit so its natural our players end up shit
Well you probably should have and these statements aren't helpful as they end up getting repeated by countless fans here and online. And they're just not true.

I'm not even having a go mate, but people are so professionally outraged and have been for months. I sympathise with what the likes of [MENTION=15376]DonAK[/MENTION] say that EV shouldn't be excused for any of it, but you have to be blind to not recognise the obvious imbalance issues you have. Across generations and in a tactic. You bought players who do not gel and have too many CMs with a winger (Dembele), a #10 playing from the sides (Coutinho) and a GOAT inside forward who prefers the middle because he doesn't really know where his talents are most useful for the team. Can't just shuck and jive, and pretend lack of 'positive football' is the issue. It isn't.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
they didn't show that in CL last year unfortunately

Edit: And just to be clear, I never said Roma was 3rd best team in Europe, what I said they were 3rd best teams based on their performances, on games in the tournament that was actually played. Nothing hypothetical

It's a flawed argument. How did Juventus not show it when they didn't play Roma or any of the teams Roma have played against? Juve only narrowly lost to the holders and future winner. Why would you put Roma ahead of them? Just because of the draw and circumstances?

Again, everybody wanted us to draw Roma in the quarterfinal because they were one of the weakest teams left in the competition at that time. Our incompetence and unprofessional attitude from everyone involved doesn't magically make Roma a great team in last year's CL.

They lost 1-4 to Barca, 2-5 to Liverpool, and 1-2 to Shakhtar in the knockout stages away games. Barely made it vs Shakhtar in the return leg (on away goals mind you), took advantage of a shit Barca in the quarters, and went out vs Liverpool as the deficit was too big to turn it around, after a valiant effort.

Commendable good team with a great fighting spirit, but not a top 5 team in that competition. You could say they were the biggest surprise for sure.
 
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vlad

New member
Still talks about roma fuck up, but once again, it wasnt all on valverde, its also on players who didnt give a fuck about it, this cl campaign will not look much different, when things doesnt go how barca players want, they just give up.


Edit: you can have all the best players in the world, but without character and fight mentality, all those cool passes, dribbles, will not put you through in CL when you have to just beat opponent physically, sometimes football its just about that, i understand that isnt the barca way, so you have to wait until teams clicks together and pull outstanding season like 2015 with lucho, or wait on another great generation, even then, barca struggled with teams that will beat you without the ball, so why do you expect things different now, just consider success playing in semis, which seem so unreachable these days for barca, but with good draw could be possible
 
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messi2140

6racies Xavi
It just didnt boil down to that Roma disaster though. He used that approach multiple times where he sat back to defend leads , and most of the time it narrowly worked ( Atletico last season comes to mind and there were multiple other instances). And then when you hoped he learned his lesson against Roma , He does the same against Sevilla in the supercup and Valladolid away this season , where again he got away with both wins narrowly.
 

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
Some physicality as in height, strength is always helpful but our biggest problem is that we don't only lack that but pretty much every physical aspect altogether. Our team isn't just small and weak, most of them are also slow and lack stamina what makes us extra vulnerable on the physical side.

On top of that we also aren't really ahead tactically and on the technical side anymore. Like we obviously have the quality and good technical players but it's not like we are lightyears away from the other teams like we were 6-7 years ago.
 
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vlad

New member
Some physicality as in height, strength is always helpful but our biggest problem is that we don't only lack that but pretty much every physical aspect altogether. Our team isn't just small and weak, most of them are also slow and lack stamina what makes us extra vulnerable on the physical side.

On top of that we also aren't really ahead tactically and on the technical side anymore. Like we obviously have the quality and good technical players but it's not like we are lightyears away from the other teams like we were 6-7 years ago.

As a barca fan, are you okay with winning la liga so often and going out in CL before finals? If yes, barca doesnt need to change much, you want to play more beautiful football, okay, change the coach and put more technical players in the team, but thats is not the way to go in CL, watch pep since barca, with that high line clashing with counter attacking teams, monaco, lpool, real, lucho barca dominated bayern on counters, atletico...so what is solution? barca has to adapt to what is needed to go far in CL, if you dont do that, you dont havemuch to complain, referees, luck, lost possession... every fucking year
 

Gaudi

Senior Member
As a barca fan, are you okay with winning la liga so often and going out in CL before finals? If yes, barca doesnt need to change much, you want to play more beautiful football, okay, change the coach and put more technical players in the team, but thats is not the way to go in CL, watch pep since barca, with that high line clashing with counter attacking teams, monaco, lpool, real, lucho barca dominated bayern on counters, atletico...so what is solution? barca has to adapt to what is needed to go far in CL, if you dont do that, you dont havemuch to complain, referees, luck, lost possession... every fucking year

I agree, I think we need to adapat all together not just for CL, slow posession, static football isn't working anymore, opposition adapted, they stoped chasing our players they simply created 3 lines that move lef and right and we can't find space anymore. I'm a firm believer taht we didn't stray that much from our idea of football, our players didn't lose passing skills, it's just that scenario changed and we refuse to accept it.

That and the way we defend as a unit is the biggest mistery to me and the bigest worry, I simply see us repeating "romas" year after year.
 

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