Ernesto Valverde - V1

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
It's actually interesting to see the evolution of the crap khaled is saying in this thread for the sake of defending Valverde. He's usually such a good poster, but he seems to be trying to outdo himself after his "Roma were the 3rd best team in the tournament" argument that he stopped even trying to defend...

It is more interesting that you keep talking Barca when you admit you barely watch us this year.
And I've always said that Rijkaard and Lucho are world class before we were ever linked to Valverde. Messi himself said before Rijkaard is the best manager he ever had
 

henias

New member
It is more interesting that you keep talking Barca when you admit you barely watch us this year.
And I've always said that Rijkaard and Lucho are world class before we were ever linked to Valverde. Messi himself said before Rijkaard is the best manager he ever had

I think what's more interesting is your instant reaction when other coaches were discussed, you immediately jump on them saying how bad they are and would be bad for Barca, profiling them from top to bottom. But when it comes to EV, you'd always become so defensive and immediately change your stance by saying coaches cannot be blamed, players, board, directors are more responsible. If so why are you so concerned about what type of coach would come to Barca since coaches cannot be blamed and that there are more important factors. You've been spewing bullshit all over. Messi only said Rijkaard impacted him the most, he didnt say who's the best. Lucho was good for a season and that's it, hardly world class. Now u said 3 world class manager? Rijkaard, Lucho, and Pep I suppose? Weren't you so ready to calling "Brillianto Valverde", so why shouldnt he be in your list?

Now Messi said this or said that automatically becomes a fact, but you are quick to call him "stubborn, flawed". Nice try at "argumentum ad verecundiam"; people see right through your nonsense.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Don't know what this entire discussion is about, but a manager like Valverde who's all about the results with that being the only thing he cares about is going to be judged by the results. So he'll have to deliver in the league and go far in the CL or else it'll just be a failure. Boring asf football, playing not to lose instead of playing to win in several games, lack of rotation and lack of good results will only be a failure.

I don't want to hear any excuses. If he's playing to win no matter how then deliver or get out.
 

God Serena

New member
It is more interesting that you keep talking Barca when you admit you barely watch us this year.
And I've always said that Rijkaard and Lucho are world class before we were ever linked to Valverde. Messi himself said before Rijkaard is the best manager he ever had

I've not admitted that at all, just that I watch us less due to BeIn being dropped from most network providers. I'm still able to watch us lose to Betis and watch us manage one shot on target in an entire game vs Atletico. Nice try, though.

Lucho was far from world class. One good season doesn't make a manager world class.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
I think what's more interesting is your instant reaction when other coaches were discussed, you immediately jump on them saying how bad they are and would be bad for Barca, profiling them from top to bottom. But when it comes to EV, you'd always become so defensive and immediately change your stance by saying coaches cannot be blamed, players, board, directors are more responsible.

And I've said already that EV isn't the coach for Barca next year, just like I talked about other coaches

And the last part shows that you don't even bother to try to read what I said before (but bothers to reply for some reason) as I talked always about those problems will always be persistent with any other coaches, it will be here after EV and those are thing I want to change.
This isn't excuse for Ernesto, you want to look it this way it is your problem not mine.

Lucho was good for a season and that's it, hardly world class. Now u said 3 world class manager? Rijkaard, Lucho, and Pep I suppose? Weren't you so ready to calling "Brillianto Valverde", so why shouldnt he be in your list?

Lucho was good for 2 seasons, the second season we were actually playing better football that 1st except that month after international break were fatigue destroyed the team, as we had many older player in SA and didn't have enough rotations and thin squad thanks to transfer ban.
I would take treble and double and one of our best ever football in those 2 seasons and thanks the coach.

Weren't you so ready to calling "Brillianto Valverde", so why shouldnt he be in your list?

Don't remember calling him Brillianto Valverde, may be after classico? Probably but it was joking more or less, like many says Goatverde after such games.
And again, I never rated EV that high, but I said that for current circumstances and with squad in hand I don't think we will do much better, this squad isn't built for entertaining + results, nor for being serious CL contender.
And I doubt the board will go for a coach ready to make change after EV, won't be surprised if Blanc and Eusebio are the top candidates for us.

Now Messi said this or said that automatically becomes a fact, but you are quick to call him "stubborn, flawed". Nice try at "argumentum ad verecundiam"; people see right through your nonsense.

Well, you can actually make an argument whether Messi isn't stubborn if you want, you can argue he isn't a tactical challenge too if you want. But nah, it is easier to call out members and just say their opinion is nonsense rather than presenting a counter argument
 
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henias

New member
And I've said already that EV isn't the coach for Barca next year, just like I talked about other coaches
And the last part shows that you don't even bother to try to read what I said before (but bothers to reply for some reason) as I talked always about those problems will always be persistent with any other coaches, it will be here after EV and those are thing I want to change.
This isn't excuse for Ernesto, you want to look it this way it is your problem not mine.
Lucho was good for 2 seasons, the second season we were actually playing better football that 1st except that month after international break were fatigue destroyed the team, as we had many older player in SA and didn't have enough rotations and thin squad thanks to transfer ban.
I would take treble and double and one of our best ever football in those 2 seasons and thanks the coach.
Don't remember calling him Brillianto Valverde, may be after classico? Probably but it was joking more or less, like many says Goatverde after such games.
And again, I never rated EV that high, but I said that for current circumstances and with squad in hand I don't think we will do much better, this squad isn't built for entertaining + results, nor for being serious CL contender.
And I doubt the board will go for a coach ready to make change after EV, won't be surprised if Blanc and Eusebio are the top candidates for us.
Well, you can actually make an argument whether Messi isn't stubborn if you want, you can argue he isn't a tactical challenge too if you want. But nah, it is easier to call out members and just say their opinion is nonsense rather than presenting a counter argument

Haha, khaled oh khaled, you ain't fooling me. I think you didnt grasp my point, I'll keep it short. People know you for a reason, they aren't dumb, as [MENTION=20420]God Serena[/MENTION] mentioned you as a poster here. Yes, you mentioned EV as a poor coach a couple of times, but like I said what's so interesting about you is that you contradict yourself almost immediately and try to downplay other coaches so that you can defend him in every ways possible.

Some examples: "Valverde is a midtable coach but... *insert bullshit reasons then ultimately don't relate discussions about coaches themselves*." You'll always try to skew away from the main discussion, and push blame/attention to others like... Roma 3rd best team huh? Directors didnt give Ernie a better squad? Even blame rotations on the board?

But when others present their point as "Yes, Koeman is not as good but... or he is better than Ev because..." Straightaway, you shoot them down directly with " because Koeman is a midtable coach, he wont suit Barca". In this case you don't evade the main topic because EV is not the focal point here.

See the contradiction here?

I didn't say the individual points you brought were all wrong in any way, but the way you contradict yourself and try to cloud the main topic. If by saying one player, Messi, says this or says that, AND therefore he automatically becomes the "BEST" manager without any concrete points to back that up, isn't a terribly flawed argument, I don't know what is. I actually like how you also say Lucho is a world class coach just because of a treble, and double but go ahead and contradict yourself again by saying Rijkaard is the best because Messi said so. Worst, Messi never implied it that way, only the coach who impacted him the most in his individual career.

But hey, whatever rocks your boat.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Haha, khaled oh khaled, you ain't fooling me. I think you didnt grasp my point, I'll keep it short. People know you for a reason, they aren't dumb, as [MENTION=20420]God Serena[/MENTION] mentioned you as a poster here. Yes, you mentioned EV as a poor coach a couple of times, but like I said what's so interesting about you is that you contradict yourself almost immediately and try to downplay other coaches so that you can defend him in every ways possible.

Contradicting myself here? Dude I've always presented an argument for every post, and yes sometimes I will change my mind like everyone here, but I don't contradict myself the way you are saying.
You are the one who interprets everything the way you want. Who is the coaches I downplay? I've reservations about some coach and in almost every time I present a case for that.

Some examples: "Valverde is a midtable coach but... *insert bullshit reasons then ultimately don't relate discussions about coaches themselves*." You'll always try to skew away from the main discussion, and push blame/attention to others like... Roma 3rd best team huh? Directors didnt give Ernie a better squad? Even blame rotations on the board?

But when others present their point as "Yes, Koeman is not as good but... or he is better than Ev because..." Straightaway, you shoot them down directly with " because Koeman is a midtable coach, he wont suit Barca". In this case you don't evade the main topic because EV is not the focal point here.

See the contradiction here?

Shoot them directly?

He is a midtable coach. You can say same about EV but that won't make Koeman a great fit here tbh.
Great for NT so far tbf, happy for him.

He surely has true legacy here, but on the other hand he has a lot of LVG in him in the sense he is difficult manager on players and lose dressing room quickly because of that.
Think he is in a perfect spot with NT.
And tbh, he blowed his chances to join us when he rejected us in 2003 when we were bad, and then going to Liga 4 years after and doing bad with Valencia

So this way I am shooting Koeman directly? And for EV sake? dude are you for real?



I didn't say the individual points you brought were all wrong in any way, but the way you contradict yourself and try to cloud the main topic. If by saying one player, Messi, says this or says that, AND therefore he automatically becomes the "BEST" manager without any concrete points to back that up, isn't a terribly flawed argument, I don't know what is. I actually like how you also say Lucho is a world class coach just because of a treble, and double but go ahead and contradict yourself again by saying Rijkaard is the best because Messi said so. Worst, Messi never implied it that way, only the coach who impacted him the most in his individual career.

I didn't say Rijkaard is the best manager, Messi saying so (or saying he is the most influential in his career as you say) weights for something, in addition to building this squad from scratch, for a team that less than a year before he arrived was 15th at some point in the league to 2nd ever CL title and best Barca football since Crujif, for developing and helping our young players like Messi, Iniesta, Valdes to lesser extent Xavi and for leaving a good squad for Pep. And for Lucho it is because of double, treble and best football in the world for 2 consecutive years.
This is contradicting? give me a break.

But hey, whatever rocks your boat.

What rocks my boat is I actually talks football, I don't call out other members.
Which has been the case for members like you for past few years.
If you don't blindly hate on EV, people will call you out,tag you after defeats. If you don't rate Dembele or Semedo that high or blame their weaknesses on coach then same happens, and 90% of time without even trying to present any argument or trully talking football.
Yeah it is easy to talk loud and call out members, I can do ton of that to you and many others of you, most of you has been consistent with your arguments either and always used flawed logic. But it isn't really worth anyone time
 

MagIX

Senior Member
[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION] Yeah pretty much. Messi is an extremely unique and talented player, said before that he should be treated as a puzzle piece rather than a centerpiece. Many managers failed to understand that, and keeps having the impression he's a player that will win you any games just bcos he's Messi. Pep managed to truly open the floodgates of his abilities, because we're talking about a player who is 5 foot 7, who doesnt have a lot of stamina to begin with. And unlocking Messi's potential is not just about him, it's about how the entire team operates. Their specific roles, movement, attacking patterns, ways to break down defences. Especially the front 3 and the midfield trio, inject pace and unpredictability, free up with movement and take off pressure so that Messi could burst into those acres of space and opponents will be done and dusted before they know it.

The difference wasn't as simple as just having Messi; the difference was Pep treated Messi as a normal player like any other in the team, motivated him, knew exactly how he's gonna exploit his insane talent in a team he built and orchestrated.

Messi still had the same weaknesses then, but the only difference there was someone there to truly maximise his potential so much so that his flaws seemed non-existent. Ever since Pep left, he just struggled so bad to truly explode in form and bring back the European silverware as well as the Ballon d or. Lucho managed to motivate him but after that lost the plot with Gomes and was riddled with Neymar tactical and ego issues. Now you have EV who doesnt even know how to use all 3 of his subs. Messi's career has been in a downward spiral until someone can come along and bring back who he was. But I'm afraid his best years were wasted by mediocre coaches and time is just ticking now.

Well said.
Unfortunately the same mistake has been made with the NT, centerpiece instead to be treated as a puzzle piece.
 

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
I think Wenger would be a really bad fit for us. He was ahead of the competition like 10-15 years ago but never managed to adapt.

It would look nicer than with Valverde, thats a given but i don't think he would be the right coach.

Getting the right one won't be easy, most coaches either don't fit our style, had some really bad results with some of their clubs or are still very inexperienced on this level. If we take a risk we might as well try Garcia Pimienta, at least chances are good he trusts la masia and our style, something Ernesto "Barca DNA" Valverde never did.
 

Gaudi

Senior Member
I think Wenger would be a really bad fit for us. He was ahead of the competition like 10-15 years ago but never managed to adapt.

It would look nicer than with Valverde, thats a given but i don't think he would be the right coach.

Getting the right one won't be easy, most coaches either don't fit our style, had some really bad results with some of their clubs or are still very inexperienced on this level. If we take a risk we might as well try Garcia Pimienta, at least chances are good he trusts la masia and our style, something Ernesto "Barca DNA" Valverde never did.

Then he is perfect for us!
 

FCBfan22

Senior Member
He blames the injuries on NT break and them playing with NT's...

:lol:

On why he doesn't rotate more: I'm the coach of this team and I have nothing more to say about that.

:lol: again.
 

messi2140

6racies Xavi
He blames the injuries on NT break and them playing with NT's...

:lol:

On why he doesn't rotate more: I'm the coach of this team and I have nothing more to say about that.

:lol: again.

giphy.webp
 

FCBfan22

Senior Member
He has just thrown out another absolute gem:

Journo: Will Coutinho's return limit Dembele's playing time?
EV: He has been playing regulary, so that shouldn't be the case.

This guy has no connection with reality.
 

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