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View Poll Results: Who should be Barça's next coach?

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  • Lucho should stay

    8 5.13%
  • Unzue

    1 0.64%
  • Eusebio

    2 1.28%
  • Koeman

    9 5.77%
  • Valverde

    6 3.85%
  • Sampaoli

    113 72.44%
  • Other(who?)

    17 10.90%
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Thread: Who should be Barça's next coach?

  1. #736
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    They say it's going to be Valverde, that's why the public debate it's a known secret. Karanka will replace him at Athletic. To me either him or Luis Enrique staying, Barcelona always did well with managers not from the top level. we need to mold their philosophy, not the other way around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaudi View Post
    Liverpool looses manager and they round up big names, we are about to let Lucho go and we get names like Valverde, Unzue...what the hell?
    Yes, I want Allegri, Simeone, Ancelotti...thoose types!
    Ancelotti.. you can't be serious. With him you can hand La Liga directly to Madrid. Look at his record as a coach. Pretty poor achievements if you consider that he managed teams like Juve, (good old) Milan, PSG, Chelsea and Madrid. Signing for Bayern is a guarantee to win Bundesliga, but apart from it? Yes, he seems to be good in winning CLs, but La Liga is (more) important and you won't win it with him.

    Simeone.. I love him, but his style/system doesn't suit Barça. I don't think he would coach a team in La Liga apart from Atléti.

    Allegri.. he is great. However, he is coach of Juve which is together with being coach of Squadra Azzurra the highest you can achieve as Italian.

  3. #738
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    All things considered Valverde is the best bet, Sampoli is going to Argentina and Koeman seems to be interested in continuing his stint at everton. None of the other options are promising.

  4. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonAndres View Post
    Valverde is the most 'proven' coach we've hired in a long time, so there's that. Not a guarantee of success, but surely less of a 'risk' experience-wise than Lucho, Tata, Tito, and Pep who all had very little real managerial experience before becoming Barca coach. He's even more proven than Rijkaard was if you don't consider his Netherlands stint to be comparable experience to Valverde's long reign at Athletic.

    It's hard to predict what Valverde's Barca would look like. His defensive base has always been built around high press at Athletic. At its heights, Lucho's Barca has been pretty effective at high pressure as well. When we lost it under Tito/Tata our defense was totally shambolic and Pique seemed to be going downhill but after Lucho his career bounced back and I think Gerard has been one of the best CB's in the world over the last 3 years. However, I think Valverde's high pressure is more strategic and with intent. Athletic try to push up and maintain consistent space between the lines even during quick transitions and buildups. The press is implemented almost immediately after dispossession and Athletic try not to 'retreat' when the ball is lost. IMO, he's built one of the most effective high pressing teams in La Liga.

    Here are some defensive statistics to show how good Athletic have been defensively:
    - 2nd least shots conceded in La Liga this season (9.9, only behind Barca at 9.5)
    - tied 4th most tackles per game at 21.1 (most is valencia with 22.7)
    - tied 4th least goals conceded per game at 40 (least is Atletico)

    And this is with Athletic being an attack minded team. At Barca, Valverde will work with much more control of the ball and the ability to pin opponents back more easily. The high press and high possession system that Valverde implements makes Athletic VERY effective at both attacking and defending as a unit. Attacking moves involve almost all of the players being involved (even off the ball) whereas at Barca under LE we've seen the left/right flanks split during attacks and mostly individual/2-3 player moves to 'overwhelm' opponents. IMO Valverde is much less likely to only rely on MSN for goals/attacking moves and the rest of the team will probably give more significant support.

    One criticism of Valverde is how much Athletic relies on crossing/set pieces for aerial goals. This is fairly true for most of Athletic's games. They average 23 crosses per game which ties RM and is one of the highest rates in La Liga. In the recent draw against Leganes it was like something more than 30 crosses attempted throughout the game. I think it's a valid criticism to make of his side, though it may just be Valverde playing to the advantages of his squad. The closest thing he has to a dynamic/mobile scoring type player is Iñaki Williams who, despite a good season, has not been that clinical with only 4 liga goals. Aduriz and Raul Garcia are his two top scorers and they are absolute beasts in the air but very limited elsewhere (they win around 9 aerial duels per game between the two of them). If he's relying on his supposedly only consistent scoring outlets, it makes sense to emphasize the play to their strengths. I don't think it's NECESSARY to attack in a death via cross method but Valverde is probably making the right decision with the cards he was dealt. At Barca he'll have a lot more capable perimeter attackers in Messi/Neymar creating chances and cutbacks will probably substitute for out and out crossing in the gameplan.

    Valverde is an intelligent manager and has been hugely successful for Athletic. The Basque-only restriction is not an easy thing to deal with for a team that's trying to fight for European places but he's managed to have 4 very good years despite that. It's also worth considering that his success is in a period where La Liga's top 10 is far more competitive than in the previous decade. The first thing we'll see this summer is the kind of transfers that the board and/or Valverde push for. It's the crucial first step to rebuilding and at this point things don't look all that great as far as our targets go.
    I agree with the assessment that he's playing to Adruiz and Raul's strengths. It's not like they are one touch guys that weave triangles inside the box, so the crossing is really understandable. People should really take into account how limited a squad Bilbao has and how Valverde has managed to mold his tactics to get the most out of his players there.

  5. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by behindbrowneyes View Post
    Ancelotti.. you can't be serious. With him you can hand La Liga directly to Madrid. Look at his record as a coach. Pretty poor achievements if you consider that he managed teams like Juve, (good old) Milan, PSG, Chelsea and Madrid. Signing for Bayern is a guarantee to win Bundesliga, but apart from it? Yes, he seems to be good in winning CLs, but La Liga is (more) important and you won't win it with him.

    Simeone.. I love him, but his style/system doesn't suit Barça. I don't think he would coach a team in La Liga apart from Atléti.

    Allegri.. he is great. However, he is coach of Juve which is together with being coach of Squadra Azzurra the highest you can achieve as Italian.
    Those names were more example than anything, it seems ve already choosen...I'm just saying I think it will end badly with Valverde.

  6. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaudi View Post
    Those names were more example than anything, it seems ve already choosen...I'm just saying I think it will end badly with Valverde.
    How many top managers did Liverpool got? Benitez in 2004 and Klopp? Klopp is a type of coach most suited for underdog team and he was available in right time,they have just fired a coach and he was just a free agent
    What is top coach available? The answer is non. Whoever you are gonna take is a gamble. Liverpool had the perfect timing to land Klopp while we didn't.
    And Valverde has been one of the most respected Liga for sometime,a student of Crujif who actually talked highly about him when he was coaching Espanyol.

  7. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by khaled_a_d View Post
    How many top managers did Liverpool got? Benitez in 2004 and Klopp? Klopp is a type of coach most suited for underdog team and he was available in right time,they have just fired a coach and he was just a free agent
    What is top coach available? The answer is non. Whoever you are gonna take is a gamble. Liverpool had the perfect timing to land Klopp while we didn't.
    And Valverde has been one of the most respected Liga for sometime,a student of Crujif who actually talked highly about him when he was coaching Espanyol.

    We'll see.

  8. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarium View Post
    All things considered Valverde is the best bet, Sampoli is going to Argentina and Koeman seems to be interested in continuing his stint at everton. None of the other options are promising.
    I don't think Koeman was ever considered by our board, it was only Valverde from the beginning. I can't believe Barcelona can't find a better manager than some guy who never managed any big team. In the end he never won anything significant. His biggest achievement is Greek championship with Olympiacos
    Last edited by Raketa10; 18th May 2017 at 08:03 PM.

  9. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonAndres View Post
    Valverde is the most 'proven' coach we've hired in a long time, so there's that. Not a guarantee of success, but surely less of a 'risk' experience-wise than Lucho, Tata, Tito, and Pep who all had very little real managerial experience before becoming Barca coach. He's even more proven than Rijkaard was if you don't consider his Netherlands stint to be comparable experience to Valverde's long reign at Athletic.

    It's hard to predict what Valverde's Barca would look like. His defensive base has always been built around high press at Athletic. At its heights, Lucho's Barca has been pretty effective at high pressure as well. When we lost it under Tito/Tata our defense was totally shambolic and Pique seemed to be going downhill but after Lucho his career bounced back and I think Gerard has been one of the best CB's in the world over the last 3 years. However, I think Valverde's high pressure is more strategic and with intent. Athletic try to push up and maintain consistent space between the lines even during quick transitions and buildups. The press is implemented almost immediately after dispossession and Athletic try not to 'retreat' when the ball is lost. IMO, he's built one of the most effective high pressing teams in La Liga.

    Here are some defensive statistics to show how good Athletic have been defensively:
    - 2nd least shots conceded in La Liga this season (9.9, only behind Barca at 9.5)
    - tied 4th most tackles per game at 21.1 (most is valencia with 22.7)
    - tied 4th least goals conceded per game at 40 (least is Atletico)

    And this is with Athletic being an attack minded team. At Barca, Valverde will work with much more control of the ball and the ability to pin opponents back more easily. The high press and high possession system that Valverde implements makes Athletic VERY effective at both attacking and defending as a unit. Attacking moves involve almost all of the players being involved (even off the ball) whereas at Barca under LE we've seen the left/right flanks split during attacks and mostly individual/2-3 player moves to 'overwhelm' opponents. IMO Valverde is much less likely to only rely on MSN for goals/attacking moves and the rest of the team will probably give more significant support.

    One criticism of Valverde is how much Athletic relies on crossing/set pieces for aerial goals. This is fairly true for most of Athletic's games. They average 23 crosses per game which ties RM and is one of the highest rates in La Liga. In the recent draw against Leganes it was like something more than 30 crosses attempted throughout the game. I think it's a valid criticism to make of his side, though it may just be Valverde playing to the advantages of his squad. The closest thing he has to a dynamic/mobile scoring type player is Iñaki Williams who, despite a good season, has not been that clinical with only 4 liga goals. Aduriz and Raul Garcia are his two top scorers and they are absolute beasts in the air but very limited elsewhere (they win around 9 aerial duels per game between the two of them). If he's relying on his supposedly only consistent scoring outlets, it makes sense to emphasize the play to their strengths. I don't think it's NECESSARY to attack in a death via cross method but Valverde is probably making the right decision with the cards he was dealt. At Barca he'll have a lot more capable perimeter attackers in Messi/Neymar creating chances and cutbacks will probably substitute for out and out crossing in the gameplan.

    Valverde is an intelligent manager and has been hugely successful for Athletic. The Basque-only restriction is not an easy thing to deal with for a team that's trying to fight for European places but he's managed to have 4 very good years despite that. It's also worth considering that his success is in a period where La Liga's top 10 is far more competitive than in the previous decade. The first thing we'll see this summer is the kind of transfers that the board and/or Valverde push for. It's the crucial first step to rebuilding and at this point things don't look all that great as far as our targets go.
    Do you have any stats on how many fouls Athletic concede relative to other teams?

    I'm not sure how effectively Valverde can achieve a high press with the current team. It's old and needs a major shakeup. I believe 14/15 pressing was a one-time kick in the ass kind of incident, and was helped by Suarez and Rakitic (new players) anyway. Need more youth and hunger in the team.

    FYI, would never go for Sampaoli. Currently the only thing you can reliably get from his teams is to choke of exhaustion in the second half of the season.

  10. #745
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    We have to dominate possession if we are to effectively utilize the high press. Our pressing was always an intelligent one. With high possession game our players will have sufficient energy to press high, the opposing players will be more tired, mentally and/or physically thus more prone to errors under the press. The two have to go together, but it all starts with the high press.

    We will be adding 2-3 new young players into the squad. It can be done. It must be done.

  11. #746
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    I must add also, we can't be leading the world in "dribbles per game" and effectively utilize possession/high press philosophy.

  12. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raketa10 View Post
    I don't think Koeman was ever considered by our board, it was only Valverde from the beginning. I can't believe Barcelona can't find a better manager than some guy who never managed any big team. In the end he never won anything significant. His biggest achievement is Greek championship with Olympiacos
    Yeah, and Koeman has last won Eredivisie 10 years ago. I respect everything he's done for us a player but I just don't rate him too much as a coach. I think Valverde has done more with lesser teams than Koeman.

  13. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by footyfan View Post
    Do you have any stats on how many fouls Athletic concede relative to other teams?

    I'm not sure how effectively Valverde can achieve a high press with the current team. It's old and needs a major shakeup. I believe 14/15 pressing was a one-time kick in the ass kind of incident, and was helped by Suarez and Rakitic (new players) anyway. Need more youth and hunger in the team.

    FYI, would never go for Sampaoli. Currently the only thing you can reliably get from his teams is to choke of exhaustion in the second half of the season.
    7th least amount of fouls in the league this season, not particularly significant either way so his defensive system doesn't seem to effect the foul count.

    I agree that it's not easy to translate the same level of pressure/intensity he used at Athletic to this Barca team. However, I see high pressure as a base strategy that is fundamental to ALL aspects of total football (attack, defense, buildup, etc.). The best high pressing teams also see a lot of the ball and spend a lot of the time in the opponents half. So the fact that Valverde can get the high press 'right' is a sign that his version of a 'total football' system is a successful one. You see teams like Sevilla or Las Palmas that try to implement this and play attractive football yet underperform defensively and can be cut open pretty easily at times. To be successful at high press means that you have to organize as a unit very well and then, in turn, attack and build up effectively as a unit when in possession. Teams that are less successful at high pressure when they try it are more prone to lose control of games and get caught in disconnected plays. It's due to this that you can see high pressure as a corollary for good team play/control, or in other words effective total football.

    Since Valverde could do that at Athletic (also being consistent with it over a period of years), it's at least a good sign that he knows the fundamentals of playing that type of Barcelona football. Things are different in this team, but you can still create an effective system with different strengths. As it's been said before, he'll have less defensive intensity but much more control in possession and much better players. New players are surely needed and it's almost certain that Valverde or any manager for that matter would struggle to have perfect tactics with this squad which badly needs renovation. IF the squad is at least decently improved in the necessary areas, then I think Valverde can organize the team well to play a high pressure system that minimizes the need for exertion. After all, I'd say that organization is 70% of high pressure and that exertion doesn't have to be extreme for it to work. Heynckes Bayern might've been the perfect example of this, and Ancelotti's RM was fairly good at it too. Pep's Barca achieved it without being the most athletic team around as well.

    Lucho's Barca is a strange one to me. At its very best, the midfield setup was very unorthodox and the left/right sides were hugely separated. At its worst, we couldn't even field a 4-3-3 due to the right side being totally decimated. It's hard to find instances of tactical problems that are similar to the ones we've had. The cohesion of the team in all aspects of the game was questionable and its one of the most individualistic teams I've seen. This is why I hope it's the case that Lucho's tactics have been a strange one-off that held the team down in the past 2 seasons. It's also why I think that Valverde can definitively improve the cohesion in the team and that the way we play might look/be VERY different 6-7 months from now given how strange it's been to this point. We'll probably get a good estimation of the actual strengths/weaknesses of Lucho's Barca when it 'evolves' into Valverde's Barca and we can see what the difference looks like.
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  14. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messi983 View Post
    Yeah, and Koeman has last won Eredivisie 10 years ago. I respect everything he's done for us a player but I just don't rate him too much as a coach. I think Valverde has done more with lesser teams than Koeman.
    Like what? What has he done in last 10 years that is so great?

  15. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raketa10 View Post
    Like what? What has he done in last 10 years that is so great?
    What did Lucho do before Barca that was so great? Flounder at Roma? Sure he was solid at Celta but he wasn't great there either.

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