Jorge Sampaoli

khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
DonAK said:
Then you should point out Valverde's strengths and flaws and stop painting everything with the same brush.

As I mentioned previously, Valverde likes his team to press high and he's good at developing young players, although as I just pointed out again, he doesn't have the best European record either and has not managed big egos, yet I still prefer him over everyone else. Unzue and Eusebio got no top level experience. They have not coached any World Class or very good players or have any sort of sample size.

Also, once again, Sevilla's squad is vastly inferior to Atletico's and not much superior to Villarreal, Real Sociedad and Athletic Bilbao. Even if this team ends at 4th place, it is still a massive improvement from last season, especially considering they have given us and Madrid a ride for our money.

If you think that should write him off from the list then it is your opinion and you'e entitled to it, but then you're holding him to standards no one expected from him or this Sevilla squad this season. If anything they have exceeded expectations with the way they have performed this season.

As you said yourself, need to stop acting like everything is black and white and just look at the table position.
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How many people have said anything good about Valverde in this forum? How many even voted for anyone but Sampaoli in the poll here on this site? If 80% of this forum is talking about Sampaoli greatness and Valverde weaknesses and I haven't been even an advocate of any coach it is normal my replay will be more about balancing the discussion by pointing out what isn't said
And who you were expecting to finish 4th? again I was expecting AM to under achieve and that is why I thought Seville will finish 3rd.but let's forget about AM here since both of us agree that 3rd place is an achievement. so who did you expect to finish 4th?
And let me just know if Sociedad team is good or bad,one time you say Valverde is underachieving when he has Sevilla.Sociedad,Villarreal above him,other time Sevilla isn't far superior than those
 
Neymessi

Neymessi

Active member
Antimilan said:
Players definitely are to blame, a lot of them, but it is the coach who instills discipline so that the players will have lower margins to fuck up like that. Can you imagine a team where within a season there are 8 different penalty takers? Serious teams do not do that, and that is Sampaoli's duty not the players.

Also, about the 3rd in March... screw that. First, it is not certain that we will end up third, I see us still fighting for the 4th by the end, and most importantly, Sampaoli came here and he had everything he wanted. This is the season where Sevilla spent the most in the history of the club, and we got players like Jovetic and Nasri, while retaining Vitolo, Escudero, Mariano, Rami etc. so it is because of the players not Sampaoli.

We have been grinding out wins ever since and won many matches purely on luck. Whenever it was required to step it up or leave the soul in the pitch to win a game, we failed. The only time we did that was vs. RM, and even that was lucky to be won with that Jovetic strike in the dying moments of FT.
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If you weren't a sevilla fan I would have ridiculed someone belittling sampaoli but you probably know more than outsiders do like me in detail.

My question is do most sevilla fans share your sentiments or do you feel you have an unpopular opinion amongst sevilla fans?
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
khaled_a_d said:
Many here didn't acknowledge his shortcoming,undermined how small sample size in Europe is too risky,how his way in training a team need to be judged on long term because there is danger in running player out of gas and losing ability to motivate players on long term,never mind playing down importance to link to Barca as a club. He has been given benefit of the doubts of all those points and many counter argument has been developed against it.
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About this part, I think that it was about Capello and his Italian teams in 90s and 00s, and Mourinho.
Those two (iirc) were known that they will force their team to play at 120% in the first 2 Months of a season, to "buy" fans and the board.
Capello's teams were always falling in February (they couldn't run anymore) and they would eventually pick up a form in April and May.

So, there are coaches who's teams play equal over 10 Months, or who's teams start slowly and reach a form in the 2nd part of a season.
But also, there are coaches who overburn their players in the 1st half in order to get the good immediate results and some momentum.

It is hard to tell whether Sampaoli is a genius or a guy who has overburnt his Sevilla's team in the first half.
Either way, we will need a larger sample and wait for at least his first season to end.
 
Antimilan

Antimilan

New member
JamDav1982 said:
You watch them every game but your opinion has only changed in less than last month..
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Won't go to my earlier posts but pretty sure I never considered him anything special or a tactical genius, that a lot of neutral fans did, surprisingly. Always had my doubts on him and this discipline issue is not a thing of tonight.... it has been going on forever. This is what lost us the game tonight.
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Antimilan said:
Won't go to my earlier posts but pretty sure I never considered him anything special or a tactical genius, that a lot of neutral fans did, surprisingly. Always had my doubts on him and this discipline issue is not a thing of tonight.... it has been going on forever. This is what lost us the game tonight.
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Around three weeks ago you were issuing a hands off to Barca regarding Sampaoli and saying One thing I learned about Sampaoli during his stay here, the guy is very intelligent and doesn't make stupid decisions in overall.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
khaled_a_d said:
How many people have said anything good about Valverde in this forum? How many even voted for anyone but Sampaoli in the poll here on this site? If 80% of this forum is talking about Sampaoli greatness and Valverde weaknesses and I haven't been even an advocate of any coach it is normal my replay will be more about balancing the discussion by pointing out what isn't said
And who you were expecting to finish 4th? again I was expecting AM to under achieve and that is why I thought Seville will finish 3rd.but let's forget about AM here since both of us agree that 3rd place is an achievement. so who did you expect to finish 4th?
And let me just know if Sociedad team is good or bad,one time you say Valverde is underachieving when he has Sevilla.Sociedad,Villarreal above him,other time Sevilla isn't far superior than those
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I respect that man, but you have to look over the Chile period as well. He formed a formidable team there. And a lot of people want a more charismatic manager this time, one who would be respected, and who would play nice football.

Just because Sevilla couldn't finish, we have this discussion. This is Champions League football. You miss 2 penalties in a tie and allow the opponent to score 3 goals from 3 chances almost, you can go out. And they did.
 
Blaugrana Bull

Blaugrana Bull

HiiiPoWeR
Antimilan said:
Players definitely are to blame, a lot of them, but it is the coach who instills discipline so that the players will have lower margins to fuck up like that. Can you imagine a team where within a season there are 8 different penalty takers? Serious teams do not do that, and that is Sampaoli's duty not the players.

Also, about the 3rd in March... screw that. First, it is not certain that we will end up third, I see us still fighting for the 4th by the end, and most importantly, Sampaoli came here and he had everything he wanted. This is the season where Sevilla spent the most in the history of the club, and we got players like Jovetic and Nasri, while retaining Vitolo, Escudero, Mariano, Rami etc. so it is because of the players not Sampaoli.

We have been grinding out wins ever since and won many matches purely on luck. Whenever it was required to step it up or leave the soul in the pitch to win a game, we failed. The only time we did that was vs. RM, and even that was lucky to be won with that Jovetic strike in the dying moments of FT.
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You earned more than you spent. Gameiro was your best striker, Banega was your most creative player, Krychowiak your heart in midfield, Coke a proven leader in Sevilla and Kono an immense talent who could have a huge impact on games. It is a huge accomplishment to form a new team without those key elements.
Considering your playing style and talking about close games and lucky wins: Emery's style was not that much different. Many of your wins in EL were close, you won a couple of penalty shootouts if I remember correctly and Emery's Sevilla was never a team to dominate a game against almost anyone.
Your rant on Sampaoli is very harsh and also wrong imo.
 
Antimilan

Antimilan

New member
Neymessi said:
If you weren't a sevilla fan I would have ridiculed someone belittling sampaoli but you probably know more than outsiders do like me in detail.

My question is do most sevilla fans share your sentiments or do you feel you have an unpopular opinion amongst sevilla fans?
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Well a lot of us always had doubts on Sampaoli. Not because of the style of play, as that was coordinated well with his wants (featuring Monchi), and the players surprisingly gelled well, where he even mentioned many times that he did not expect the team would respond so good to the tactics. The doubt was on the team discipline, the motivation for fight (which made us love Sevilla after all) and the approach in certain games.

Pretty sure he would do good at Barca if you get him, but I certainly do not want him here for another season no matter what. Would rather take Emery back, but keep investing and satisfy Emery's needs, which never happened by the way. We are all witnessing what Sampaoli is capable of with a good budget, but can't even imagine what Emery would be capable of if he had the players he wanted.

Therefore, that's why I don't compare much Emery's Sevilla with Sampaoli's, because Emery had to invent something all the time and get content with losing stars while signing experiments, while Sampaoli retained some stars and signed other ones, so there is a lower margin for complaints in case of failure.
 
KingMessi

KingMessi

SiempreBlaugrana
Why are we listening to the guy who is obviously upset his team just got knocked out? Emotions are high for Sevillistas and they'll rip on everyone, the players, the coach, etc. It's like listening to any one of us talk about Lucho when we play a bad game.
 
Antimilan

Antimilan

New member
Blaugrana Bull said:
You earned more than you spent. Gameiro was your best striker, Banega was your most creative player, Krychowiak your heart in midfield, Coke a proven leader in Sevilla and Kono an immense talent who could have a huge impact on games. It is a huge accomplishment to form a new team without those key elements.
Considering your playing style and talking about close games and lucky wins: Emery's style was not that much different. Many of your wins in EL were close, you won a couple of penalty shootouts if I remember correctly and Emery's Sevilla was never a team to dominate a game against almost anyone.
Your rant on Sampaoli is very harsh and also wrong imo.
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Ok, have him in Barca, good luck.

Oh and you are praising Konoplyanka? The player that can't even get minutes in Schalke 04. That makes me think a lot of your evaluation capabilities. Kono was never going to cut it here because of his selfishness and lack of determination. Not even Sampaoli liked him here, he was loaned out only after Sampaoli's disapproval of him staying with the team, the player wanted to stay.
 
Blaugrana Bull

Blaugrana Bull

HiiiPoWeR
Antimilan said:
Ok, have him in Barca, good luck.

Oh and you are praising Konoplyanka? The player that can't even get minutes in Schalke 04. That makes me think a lot of your evaluation capabilities. Kono was never going to cut it here because of his selfishness and lack of determination. Not even Sampaoli liked him here, he was loaned out only after Sampaoli's disapproval of him staying with the team, the player wanted to stay.
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I made a couple of legit points and you point one out were I used the words "could make" and "talent". Not bad. Take that one out it is the least important point in my statement.
No words on earning more than spending but still talking about Sampaoli having the most money ever to invest. Keep on ranting, no discussion possible I guess.
 
DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
BBZ8800 said:
I have read Wikipedia's article one more.
Please, enlighten me, which part of his career should be considered as awesome?

About a part about Neymar, remember the golden rule of arguing on internet:
1. once a person starts with personal insults
2. or pointing to other person's mistakes/opinion unrelated with a current topic
= you can assume that a person no1 is lacking any stronger arguments in the current debate.

So, I'll assume that you also know deep down inside that we are right about Samp's cons in this moment.
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1. You said he had no league titles --> Go to Sampaoli Wikipedia and click on 'Honours' and see what shows up.

2. Your arguments are random percentages and made up stats or biased stats

3. Do I need to remind you about your PM again? Please apply that golden rule to yourself and your arguments before pushing it on others, thanks.
 
Antimilan

Antimilan

New member
Blaugrana Bull said:
I made a couple of legit points and you point one out were I used the words "could make" and "talent". Not bad. Take that one out it is the least important point in my statement.
No words on earning more than spending but still talking about Sampaoli having the most money ever to invest. Keep on ranting, no discussion possible I guess.
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You and all the others here think that all of a sudden Sevillistas are blaming Sampaoli. You should check our discussions more often, just like I check yours for instance, in order to have a clearer view of the situation. It is not the first time that we question his capabilities as a coach. Also, we got more than invested? First, the 3rd place is not even close to being secured, and last 16 is nothing special. Besides, getting eliminated from a side like Leicester who is fighting for relegation, tells a lot. Moreover, the tie was not lost because of tonight, but because of the first leg, conservative tactics and playing it safe, that cost us tonight.

Read more before trying to debate. Did I ever tell you that you shouldn't blame Lucho etc.? And for all of you, if you love Sampaoli, send fan messages to him as he has been thinking a lot lately about Barca and Argentina NT. Hopefully he'll leave in Summer that's all that I can say.
 
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
serghei said:
I respect that man, but you have to look over the Chile period as well. He formed a formidable team there. And a lot of people want a more charismatic manager this time, one who would be respected, and who would play nice football.

Just because Sevilla couldn't finish, we have this discussion. This is Champions League football. You miss 2 penalties in a tie and allow the opponent to score 3 goals from 3 chances almost, you can go out. And they did.
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If anything Tata's experiment has taught us is to really forget about success in SA,Tata almost had same success. Reached Copa America final with inferior team,reached WC round of 16 too while having club success. He was our worst coach since the start of Ronaldinho's era
I mean it is a positive sign for sure and everything,but speaking about being hired as Barca coach? I don't think it means much.

And the points you are making is good,but in a 2 games tie against a far inferior team? come on man this is just on him as much as it is on the players too.This is a team who knows how to win such ties,they have experience for that (far more than their opponent) and he is supposed to be good on this and should be trying to make a statement when he is trying to get a top club job. Antimilan is also making some good points too.


serghei said:
You miss an important aspect. Europa League is under Champions League, and when a team goes in the CL knock-out phases it is a superior result, than if that team goes out in the Group Stages.
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He had 2nd best team in the group and finished 2nd,Emery last year had 3rd best team in the group and finished 3rd. That isn't an improvement it is called CL group stage draw.
 
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