Cr150

look at the team peak ronaldo had at barca and the team cristiano has had at madrid. truth is, while messi and CR7 have been posting supernatural numbers for years and years, they've had tremendous supporting casts, and CR7 in particular (duration wise). The last "average" team that CR7 played for was 04-05 united.

He has many flaws but his desire to win and his willingness to fight for every inch, every ball are a few of those things that make him great and a player with a prolonged career.

KingLeo10 said:

look at the team peak ronaldo had at barca and the team cristiano has had at madrid. truth is, while messi and CR7 have been posting supernatural numbers for years and years, they've had tremendous supporting casts, and CR7 in particular (duration wise). The last "average" team that CR7 played for was 04-05 united.

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Almost all great players have been surrounded by other great players and Ronaldos Barca was a very good team but it takes time to build a winning side and he moved on.

You need to go look again at that Barca 96/97 team it was very strong.

Can flip it and say look at the team Ronaldo had to win the World Cup. Messi and Ronaldo could only dream of that.

KingLeo10 said:

look at the team peak ronaldo had at barca and the team cristiano has had at madrid. truth is, while messi and CR7 have been posting supernatural numbers for years and years, they've had tremendous supporting casts, and CR7 in particular (duration wise). The last "average" team that CR7 played for was 04-05 united.

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Thats a given, you expect them to get such numbers with an "average" team behind them?
There is a reason neither of them have such numbers for their NTs, still good numbers, but not really close to their club numbers.
Brazilian Ronaldo didnt exactly have a team of scrubs when he dominated the world cups either.

Morten said:

Thats a given, you expect them to get such numbers with an "average" team behind them?
There is a reason neither of them have such numbers for their NTs, still good numbers, but not really close to their club numbers.
Brazilian Ronaldo didnt exactly have a team of scrubs when he dominated the world cups either.

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all i'm saying is ronaldo looked a monster in a team without a bunch of world class players to a greater degree than i've seen messi or CR7 look. he had everything in the locker, almost half his goals for barca and inter 1(1st season) were solo goals.

KingLeo10 said:

all i'm saying is ronaldo looked a monster in a team without a bunch of world class players to a greater degree than i've seen messi or CR7 look. he had everything in the locker, almost half his goals for barca and inter 1(1st season) were solo goals.

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That Barca team probably had the best bunch of attacking players in the world at the time.

Messi and Ronaldo have both continued to dominate almost regardless of who has been alongside them at Barca and Real.

JamDav1982 said:

Dont agree.

Compare eithers top 4-5 seasons and there is only one winner.

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I was respondinf to the claim that Cristianos 2012 season was better than any of those at peak. Take their best season, and I believe they were both better. Neither of them had the long career at the absolute top that Cristiano had though, so judging them against each other becomes a matter of preference (absolute ceiling of performance or consistancy over a career)
Ronaldinho and Ronaldo were able to destroy other defences on their own when they were at their best. That is something I have never seen Cristiano do to such a degree. To compare with someone completely different, I was and still am a big fan of Batistuta, whom I think is massively underrated in the general public because he played his best years at a VERY mediocre Fiorentina. He wasn't unstopable the same way Messi, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo were, but feed him half a chance, and he was lethal. I would have loved to see what he could have done if he had played at his peak getting the same service Cristiano has been given.

The difference between messi's and ronaldo's shots is that the former shoot with precision while the latter simply frame the shot and does so with power (which is a hard skill too). That's why messi's finishes will always be more pleasant to the eye.

Messi said:

I was respondinf to the claim that Cristianos 2012 season was better than any of those at peak. Take their best season, and I believe they were both better. Neither of them had the long career at the absolute top that Cristiano had though, so judging them against each other becomes a matter of preference (absolute ceiling of performance or consistancy over a career)
Ronaldinho and Ronaldo were able to destroy other defences on their own when they were at their best. That is something I have never seen Cristiano do to such a degree. To compare with someone completely different, I was and still am a big fan of Batistuta, whom I think is massively underrated in the general public because he played his best years at a VERY mediocre Fiorentina. He wasn't unstopable the same way Messi, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo were, but feed him half a chance, and he was lethal. I would have loved to see what he could have done if he had played at his peak getting the same service Cristiano has been given.

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What was the peak season for those players to compare?

I dont think either really had a better ceiling of performance either but can compare on their best seasons.

its sad hes sacrificed so much of his game to dedicate himself to scoring. at United he was great to watch even if his stepovers were pretty useless. these days there no 'magic' about him imo and thats huge in the debate (farce) vs Messi.

Givenchy said:

its sad hes sacrificed so much of his game to dedicate himself to scoring. at United he was great to watch even if his stepovers were pretty useless. these days there no 'magic' about him imo and thats huge in the debate (farce) vs Messi.

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He is overall a more effective player than that version of him at United though.

Become like a machine.

The debate between him and Messi isnt a farce. I think Messi is better but this year for instance Ronaldo deserves balon dor.

El Flaco said:

Avoiding injuries has nothing to do with ability, it's just pure luck .

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Actually, it's quite the opposite. It's just partly down to luck, another part has a lot to do with the player's:

1. Experience and sporting spirit: a lot of time when experienced players about to lose their balance due to contact or tackle from players of other team, they d deliberately skillfully fall to the ground to minimize the sudden stress and load being put on their muscle, ligament or joint (thus reducing the chance of getting injured, sometimes more likely than not jump up and dodge for example a 2 legs in the air kinda tackle charging at them ) compared to trying to hold up, balance themselves and continue to play (less game pause and benefit the fans who are watching)! CR7 is the prime example and a master of this. The c$nt is so selfish that he's been taking this to the extreme, he can fall down easily despite having little to no contact with others, just so that he can send the message " be careful don't ever touch me when tackling or you get a yellow or a red and I get a PK", pulling all the retarded stuffs just to overly protect his body without having any respect for the fan whatsoever! Messi is the opposite, always try to stand up while he still can immediately after a harsh tackle (he s been doing this less often compared to his young version though) knowing that he d be more likely to get injured doing so, HUGE sporting spirit.

2.Diet

3.Commitment outside the pitch (do they smoke or drink or have enough rest, etc)

Etc,etc

I think C.Ronaldo of 07-12 is superior to a peak Rivaldo and not really far away from a peak R9 or R10. He had very little weakness to his game. He could still dribble to a high level, long shots, headers, speed, strength, crossing, could bring others into play and win games single-handedly while still scoring at the same supernatural rate he is now.

The comparisons to Batistuta is unfounded if we're talking about CR at his peak. He still had much more to his game than the argentine. At his best, he was a true winger with the goalscoring touch of the best striker. I'd say current CR is probably still a better player than Batistuta.

Yeah I agree with this tbh. This is why players like Wilshere are always injured. Over-indulgent, warrior like mentality going into every 50-50. Essien f$cked his body up like this as did countless others that go 100% into every 50-50.

fcb2000 said:

I think C.Ronaldo of 07-12 is superior to a peak Rivaldo and not really far away from a peak R9 or R10. He had very little weakness to his game. He could still dribble to a high level, long shots, headers, speed, strength, crossing, could bring others into play and win games single-handedly while still scoring at the same supernatural rate he is now.

The comparisons to Batistuta is unfounded if we're talking about CR at his peak. He still had much more to his game than the argentine. At his best, he was a true winger with the goalscoring touch of the best striker. I'd say current CR is probably still a better player than Batistuta.

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Of course Ronaldos peak is better than Rivaldo. Jesus christ if that is even open to debate then it shows how far off being able to judge him objectively.

I loved Rivaldo back in day and he was a magician at times but Ronaldo is on a different level without a doubt.