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Thread: Moneymar Jr.

  1. #15196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    "The investigating chamber of the financial control of clubs (ICFC) has decided to close the investigation on Paris Saint-Germain.... The financial impact of the transfer activities from the summer of 2017 - until the next transfer - and the break-even point for the 2018 financial year will remain under close scrutiny and will be the subject of an in-depth review. weeks to come. "

    I’m lying though. Don’t know where that 40m deficit came from, it’s completely irrelevant. PSG will remain under investigation far into the future, will be forced to sell all of their players, won’t be able to spend, etc. You’re spot on, Jam.
    Jesus you really dont understand it do you?

    That quote says that UEFA have cleared PSG for period ending 2017 and will continue to monitor period ending 2018 as not yet complete.

    The fact you keep pointing it out as if anyone is arguing against it or it proves some point shows how little idea you have.

    Again.... what relevance does that have to anything being discussed?

    Try reading up on FFP before just copying and pasting irrelevant quotes as you dont have a clue how it works.

    Imagine believing PSG have cleared the full fees of Neymar and Mbappe in 2017/18...
    Last edited by JamDav1982; 14th June 2018 at 12:10 AM.

  2. #15197
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Jesus you really dont understand it do you?

    That quote says that UEFA have cleared PSG for period ending 2017 and will continue to monitor period ending 2018 as not yet complete.

    The fact you keep pointing it out as if anyone is arguing against it or it proves some point shows how little idea you have.

    Again.... what relevance does that have to anything being discussed?

    Try reading up on FFP before just copying and pasting irrelevant quotes as you dont have a clue how it works.
    They will continue to monitor PSG to ensure they take care of the 30m deficit over the years of 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18. Hence the June 30th deadline. So long as PSG covers the deficit with player sales by June 30th, they’re fine.

    You know all though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ousmane Dembélé View Post
    "Sure, you got me I'm a fake supporter."

    "I can't stand Madrid, but I'd rather see them go through than the Qataris."

  3. #15198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    Yes, they will continue to monitor PSG to ensure they take care of the 30m deficit over the years of 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18. Hence the June 30th deadline. Do long as PSG covers the deficit with player sales by June 30th, they’re fine.

    You know all though.
    What on earth are you on about?

    Who has argued that PSG will fail FFP for period ending 2018? Been said all along they need to sell players to meet it.

    The fact you think this is them starting with a 'clean slate' in 2018/19 and Neymar and Mbappe signings cleared in FFP is where your ignorance and lack of basic understanding of FFP comes in.

  4. #15199
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    What on earth are you on about?

    Who has argued that PSG will fail FFP for period ending 2018? Been said all along they need to sell players to meet it.

    The fact you think this is them starting with a 'clean slate' in 2018/19 and Neymar and Mbappe signings cleared in FFP is where your ignorance and lack of basic understanding of FFP comes in.
    I don’t even know why or what you’re arguing for anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ousmane Dembélé View Post
    "Sure, you got me I'm a fake supporter."

    "I can't stand Madrid, but I'd rather see them go through than the Qataris."

  5. #15200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    I don’t even know why or what you’re arguing for anymore.
    Clearly as you keep making things up and posting irrelevant quotes and fail to grasp how FFP works and how the signings of Neymar and Mbappe impact that going forward.

    Blindly going on about Neymar and Mbappe fees being met in full through FFP in 2017/18 and 'clean slates'.

    Do you accept that the amortised cost of Neymar/Mbappe will be around 120m for 2018/19 FFP?

    That is going on reported figures of fees. But regardless of exact amount do you realise that the transfer fees and wages are amortised across the contract in regards to FFP?

    For example Neymar fee of 222m and wages of around 218m would be around 73m a year to be covered each season for FFP.

    Do you now understand this?
    Last edited by JamDav1982; 14th June 2018 at 12:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Exactly as I am saying FFP works by amortising a players fee and wages over their contract.

    All they have done is met that in the first year if sell 60m worth of players.

    The amortised costs of Neymar and Mbappe then apply every year of their contracts. I calculate this roughly as around 120m. Fairly easy to work out if have the proper figures.
    I figure it to be a lot more and this figure excludes performance bonuses etc

    Neymar's amort is about +/-45 Million (222/5 year contract) and his wages is about 60 Million per annum. Mbappe's amort is about +/-45 Million too (180/4 years - first year not included in amort because he still belonged to Monaco) and a wage of 20 Million per annum. That puts us around 170 Million per annum excluding performance bonuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    Also, Jam isn’t smart enough to realize that FFP accounted for the full cost of Neymar & Mbappe’s transfer fee’s, so amortization isn’t relevant in this discussion.
    Most people have been very patient with you up until now but this is horribly wrong... The purchase of a player is not a profit/loss item but rather a biological asset (like a car, you don't expense the total purchase price but rather amortise it over it's useful life which is typically 5 years). What is a profit/loss item is said players wages (cars fuel, maintenance expenses) as well as his amortisation (cars annual depreciation) in addition to any profit/loss on his sale when it eventually happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Blindly going on about Neymar and Mbappe fees being met in full through FFP in 2017/18 and 'clean slates'.
    Mbappe and Neymar's fee's have already been investigated and accounted for.

    Do you accept that the amortised cost of Neymar/Mbappe will be around 120m for 2018/19 FFP?
    I accept that UEFA has investigated their purchases, deemed them legal, and closed the investigation after deciding not to sanction PSG.

    That is going on reported figures of fees. But regardless of exact amount do you realise that the transfer fees and wages are amortised across the contract in regards to FFP?
    Accounted for.

    For example Neymar fee of 222m and wages of around 218m would be around 73m a year to be covered each season for FFP.
    Accounted for.

    Do you now understand this?
    Yes, which is why it's weird that you're continuing after UEFA's official statement.
    Last edited by Jair Ventura; 14th June 2018 at 11:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ousmane Dembélé View Post
    "Sure, you got me I'm a fake supporter."

    "I can't stand Madrid, but I'd rather see them go through than the Qataris."

  8. #15203
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    Quote Originally Posted by MessiCam View Post

    Most people have been very patient with you up until now but this is horribly wrong... The purchase of a player is not a profit/loss item but rather a biological asset (like a car, you don't expense the total purchase price but rather amortise it over it's useful life which is typically 5 years). What is a profit/loss item is said players wages (cars fuel, maintenance expenses) as well as his amortisation (cars annual depreciation) in addition to any profit/loss on his sale when it eventually happens.

    It gets up to a point in an argument sometimes where some people have put so much into it they will never accept they are wrong or don’t understand something even if it’s spelled out in front of them by multiple members.

    Wouldn’t waste your time explaining mate.

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    Btw, I could be misremembering, but I thought that PSG had to pay Neymar's full fee at one time due to it being a buyout clause rather than a traditional transfer:

    "On Thursday afternoon Neymar Jr's legal representatives visited in person the Club's offices and made the payment of 222 million euros in the player's name with regards to the unilateral termination of the contract that united both parties.
    As such, the Club will pass on to UEFA the details of the above operation so that they can determine the disciplinary responsibilities that may arise from this case."

    https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/new...elona-did-not/


    I'm fully aware of how amortization works, but I was correct in saying Neymar's fee was already investigated and approved by UEFA. Even after having their contracts devalued and Mbappe's loan attached to the 16/17 fiscal period, PSG can afford them without penalty if the aforementioned debt is taken care of.
    Last edited by Jair Ventura; 14th June 2018 at 11:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ousmane Dembélé View Post
    "Sure, you got me I'm a fake supporter."

    "I can't stand Madrid, but I'd rather see them go through than the Qataris."

  10. #15205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    It gets up to a point in an argument sometimes where some people have put so much into it they will never accept they are wrong or don’t understand something even if it’s spelled out in front of them by multiple members.

    Wouldn’t waste your time explaining mate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ousmane Dembélé View Post
    "Sure, you got me I'm a fake supporter."

    "I can't stand Madrid, but I'd rather see them go through than the Qataris."

  11. #15206
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    Obviously PSG paid for Neymar in one installment.

    If the fee is paid in one go or multiple installments it makes no difference to how it is recorded in FFP.

    The way it is worked against FFP is amortising the fee and wages across the contract.

    If deny that then just dont understand how FFP works.

    All that PSG will clear by selling players before June is the 2018 rolling period.

    The amortised cost of Neymar and Mbappe will apply again in 2018/19 and across duration of their contracts.
    Last edited by JamDav1982; 14th June 2018 at 12:16 PM.

  12. #15207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post

    Not one person here said it had anything to do with whether it was paid in full or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Obviously PSG paid for Neymar in one installment.

    If the fee is paid in one go or multiple installments it makes no difference to how it is recorded in FFP.

    The way it is worked against FFP is amortising the fee and wages across the contract.

    If deny that then just dont understand how FFP works.

    All that PSG will clear by selling players before June is clearing 2018 rolling period.

    The amortised cost of Neymar and Mbappe will apply again in 2018/19 and across duration of their contracts.
    - You bringing up wages is a straw-man, as PSG’s wage bill falls under the investigation of their books.

    - Amortization is paying off a debt over equal installments, generally over the length of a contract. But there isn’t any debt if the entirety of the costs are paid at once. Why would PSG have to continue paying for a player they’ve already bought in full? Obviously they still have to pay his wages, but that is a different conversation.

    - The part you keep glossing over is that UEFA closed the investigation. After they’ve paid off their debt, they’ll no longer be subject to penalty so long as their books remain balanced.
    Last edited by Jair Ventura; 14th June 2018 at 12:25 PM.

  14. #15209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    Not one person here said it had anything to do with whether it was paid in full or not.
    A few people have argued that Neymar’s fee is amortized over the length of his contract, but that’s only possible if there’s a debt to pay off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ousmane Dembélé View Post
    "Sure, you got me I'm a fake supporter."

    "I can't stand Madrid, but I'd rather see them go through than the Qataris."

  15. #15210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    A few people have argued that Neymar’s fee is amortized over the length of his contract, but that’s only possible if there’s a debt to pay off.
    Ney's transfer has been paid in full and PSG holds no debt in this aspect. Rather than debt, might help if one thinks of the FFP linked amortization option as an accounting tool/ "loophole" to spread a big amount over multiple years, dividing it into easier to absorb amounts.

    Would PSG enter the full amount of 222 Mil for the buyout clause on the 2017/18 fiscal year ending in 2 weeks, they wouldn't be in compliance with FFP, thus they exercised the option to spread that amount over the 5 fiscal exercices for Ney's contract.

    They'll do the same for Mbappe once they fully activate his signing.

    Tricky budget for Tuchel as PSG even without Mbappe's annual amortization fees, are already in the hole with a current deficit of 40-60 mil. Starting next year, in addition to Mbappe's salary, they'll have to add his amortization of about 45 mil per year.