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Thread: Neymar Jr. - v5

  1. #15196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    I don’t even know why or what you’re arguing for anymore.
    Clearly as you keep making things up and posting irrelevant quotes and fail to grasp how FFP works and how the signings of Neymar and Mbappe impact that going forward.

    Blindly going on about Neymar and Mbappe fees being met in full through FFP in 2017/18 and 'clean slates'.

    Do you accept that the amortised cost of Neymar/Mbappe will be around 120m for 2018/19 FFP?

    That is going on reported figures of fees. But regardless of exact amount do you realise that the transfer fees and wages are amortised across the contract in regards to FFP?

    For example Neymar fee of 222m and wages of around 218m would be around 73m a year to be covered each season for FFP.

    Do you now understand this?
    Last edited by JamDav1982; 14th June 2018 at 01:25 AM.

  2. #15197
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Exactly as I am saying FFP works by amortising a players fee and wages over their contract.

    All they have done is met that in the first year if sell 60m worth of players.

    The amortised costs of Neymar and Mbappe then apply every year of their contracts. I calculate this roughly as around 120m. Fairly easy to work out if have the proper figures.
    I figure it to be a lot more and this figure excludes performance bonuses etc

    Neymar's amort is about +/-45 Million (222/5 year contract) and his wages is about 60 Million per annum. Mbappe's amort is about +/-45 Million too (180/4 years - first year not included in amort because he still belonged to Monaco) and a wage of 20 Million per annum. That puts us around 170 Million per annum excluding performance bonuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    Also, Jam isn’t smart enough to realize that FFP accounted for the full cost of Neymar & Mbappe’s transfer fee’s, so amortization isn’t relevant in this discussion.
    Most people have been very patient with you up until now but this is horribly wrong... The purchase of a player is not a profit/loss item but rather a biological asset (like a car, you don't expense the total purchase price but rather amortise it over it's useful life which is typically 5 years). What is a profit/loss item is said players wages (cars fuel, maintenance expenses) as well as his amortisation (cars annual depreciation) in addition to any profit/loss on his sale when it eventually happens.

  3. #15198
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Blindly going on about Neymar and Mbappe fees being met in full through FFP in 2017/18 and 'clean slates'.
    Mbappe and Neymar's fee's have already been investigated and accounted for.

    Do you accept that the amortised cost of Neymar/Mbappe will be around 120m for 2018/19 FFP?
    I accept that UEFA has investigated their purchases, deemed them legal, and closed the investigation after deciding not to sanction PSG.

    That is going on reported figures of fees. But regardless of exact amount do you realise that the transfer fees and wages are amortised across the contract in regards to FFP?
    Accounted for.

    For example Neymar fee of 222m and wages of around 218m would be around 73m a year to be covered each season for FFP.
    Accounted for.

    Do you now understand this?
    Yes, which is why it's weird that you're continuing after UEFA's official statement.
    Last edited by Jair Ventura; 14th June 2018 at 12:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    PSG winning the league by 13 points is a much better indicator of how strong the league is rather than a smaller team dominating you in one game. Means nothing.. look at Barca vs Levante last season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    Points gap between first and second, Europes top 5 leagues:

    La Liga: 14
    EPL: 19
    Serie A: 4
    Bundesliga: 21
    Ligue 1: 13

    According to your own criteria, Ligue 1 is the second strongest league of Europe's top 5.

  4. #15199
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    Quote Originally Posted by MessiCam View Post

    Most people have been very patient with you up until now but this is horribly wrong... The purchase of a player is not a profit/loss item but rather a biological asset (like a car, you don't expense the total purchase price but rather amortise it over it's useful life which is typically 5 years). What is a profit/loss item is said players wages (cars fuel, maintenance expenses) as well as his amortisation (cars annual depreciation) in addition to any profit/loss on his sale when it eventually happens.

    It gets up to a point in an argument sometimes where some people have put so much into it they will never accept they are wrong or don’t understand something even if it’s spelled out in front of them by multiple members.

    Wouldn’t waste your time explaining mate.

  5. #15200
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    Btw, I could be misremembering, but I thought that PSG had to pay Neymar's full fee at one time due to it being a buyout clause rather than a traditional transfer:

    "On Thursday afternoon Neymar Jr's legal representatives visited in person the Club's offices and made the payment of 222 million euros in the player's name with regards to the unilateral termination of the contract that united both parties.
    As such, the Club will pass on to UEFA the details of the above operation so that they can determine the disciplinary responsibilities that may arise from this case."

    https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/new...elona-did-not/


    I'm fully aware of how amortization works, but I was correct in saying Neymar's fee was already investigated and approved by UEFA. Even after having their contracts devalued and Mbappe's loan attached to the 16/17 fiscal period, PSG can afford them without penalty if the aforementioned debt is taken care of.
    Last edited by Jair Ventura; 14th June 2018 at 12:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    PSG winning the league by 13 points is a much better indicator of how strong the league is rather than a smaller team dominating you in one game. Means nothing.. look at Barca vs Levante last season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    Points gap between first and second, Europes top 5 leagues:

    La Liga: 14
    EPL: 19
    Serie A: 4
    Bundesliga: 21
    Ligue 1: 13

    According to your own criteria, Ligue 1 is the second strongest league of Europe's top 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    It gets up to a point in an argument sometimes where some people have put so much into it they will never accept they are wrong or don’t understand something even if it’s spelled out in front of them by multiple members.

    Wouldn’t waste your time explaining mate.
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="es" dir="ltr">Este cheque si era para tomarle una foto <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Neymar?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Neymar</a> [<a href="https://twitter.com/sport?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@sport</a>] <a href="https://t.co/JKfCgs7Dqi">pic.twitter.com/JKfCgs7Dqi</a></p>&mdash; Guillermo Arango (@guilloarango) <a href="https://twitter.com/guilloarango/status/893606126310137856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 4, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    PSG winning the league by 13 points is a much better indicator of how strong the league is rather than a smaller team dominating you in one game. Means nothing.. look at Barca vs Levante last season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    Points gap between first and second, Europes top 5 leagues:

    La Liga: 14
    EPL: 19
    Serie A: 4
    Bundesliga: 21
    Ligue 1: 13

    According to your own criteria, Ligue 1 is the second strongest league of Europe's top 5.

  7. #15202
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    Obviously PSG paid for Neymar in one installment.

    If the fee is paid in one go or multiple installments it makes no difference to how it is recorded in FFP.

    The way it is worked against FFP is amortising the fee and wages across the contract.

    If deny that then just dont understand how FFP works.

    All that PSG will clear by selling players before June is the 2018 rolling period.

    The amortised cost of Neymar and Mbappe will apply again in 2018/19 and across duration of their contracts.
    Last edited by JamDav1982; 14th June 2018 at 01:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="es" dir="ltr">Este cheque si era para tomarle una foto <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Neymar?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Neymar</a> [<a href="https://twitter.com/sport?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@sport</a>] <a href="https://t.co/JKfCgs7Dqi">pic.twitter.com/JKfCgs7Dqi</a></p>— Guillermo Arango (@guilloarango) <a href="https://twitter.com/guilloarango/status/893606126310137856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 4, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    Not one person here said it had anything to do with whether it was paid in full or not.

  9. #15204
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Obviously PSG paid for Neymar in one installment.

    If the fee is paid in one go or multiple installments it makes no difference to how it is recorded in FFP.

    The way it is worked against FFP is amortising the fee and wages across the contract.

    If deny that then just dont understand how FFP works.

    All that PSG will clear by selling players before June is clearing 2018 rolling period.

    The amortised cost of Neymar and Mbappe will apply again in 2018/19 and across duration of their contracts.
    - You bringing up wages is a straw-man, as PSG’s wage bill falls under the investigation of their books.

    - Amortization is paying off a debt over equal installments, generally over the length of a contract. But there isn’t any debt if the entirety of the costs are paid at once. Why would PSG have to continue paying for a player they’ve already bought in full? Obviously they still have to pay his wages, but that is a different conversation.

    - The part you keep glossing over is that UEFA closed the investigation. After they’ve paid off their debt, they’ll no longer be subject to penalty so long as their books remain balanced.
    Last edited by Jair Ventura; 14th June 2018 at 01:25 PM.

  10. #15205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    Not one person here said it had anything to do with whether it was paid in full or not.
    A few people have argued that Neymar’s fee is amortized over the length of his contract, but that’s only possible if there’s a debt to pay off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    PSG winning the league by 13 points is a much better indicator of how strong the league is rather than a smaller team dominating you in one game. Means nothing.. look at Barca vs Levante last season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    Points gap between first and second, Europes top 5 leagues:

    La Liga: 14
    EPL: 19
    Serie A: 4
    Bundesliga: 21
    Ligue 1: 13

    According to your own criteria, Ligue 1 is the second strongest league of Europe's top 5.

  11. #15206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    A few people have argued that Neymar’s fee is amortized over the length of his contract, but that’s only possible if there’s a debt to pay off.
    Ney's transfer has been paid in full and PSG holds no debt in this aspect. Rather than debt, might help if one thinks of the FFP linked amortization option as an accounting tool/ "loophole" to spread a big amount over multiple years, dividing it into easier to absorb amounts.

    Would PSG enter the full amount of 222 Mil for the buyout clause on the 2017/18 fiscal year ending in 2 weeks, they wouldn't be in compliance with FFP, thus they exercised the option to spread that amount over the 5 fiscal exercices for Ney's contract.

    They'll do the same for Mbappe once they fully activate his signing.

    Tricky budget for Tuchel as PSG even without Mbappe's annual amortization fees, are already in the hole with a current deficit of 40-60 mil. Starting next year, in addition to Mbappe's salary, they'll have to add his amortization of about 45 mil per year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowy View Post
    Ney's transfer has been paid in full and PSG holds no debt in this aspect. Rather than debt, might help if one thinks of the FFP linked amortization option as an accounting tool/ "loophole" to spread a big amount over multiple years, dividing it into easier to absorb amounts.

    Would PSG enter the full amount of 222 Mil for the buyout clause on the 2017/18 fiscal year ending in 2 weeks, they wouldn't be in compliance with FFP, thus they exercised the option to spread that amount over the 5 fiscal exercices for Ney's contract.

    They'll do the same for Mbappe once they fully activate his signing.

    Tricky budget for Tuchel as PSG even without Mbappe's annual amortization fees, are already in the hole with a current deficit of 40-60 mil. Starting next year, in addition to Mbappe's salary, they'll have to add his amortization of about 45 mil per year.
    Do you have a source for your claims? I’ve never read what you’re suggesting PSG did above. Also, Mbappe’s transfer went through in May. He falls under the 17/18 fiscal period and was accounted for in the FFP investigation.

    Stop trying to project fantastical bs. PSG is fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    PSG winning the league by 13 points is a much better indicator of how strong the league is rather than a smaller team dominating you in one game. Means nothing.. look at Barca vs Levante last season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    Points gap between first and second, Europes top 5 leagues:

    La Liga: 14
    EPL: 19
    Serie A: 4
    Bundesliga: 21
    Ligue 1: 13

    According to your own criteria, Ligue 1 is the second strongest league of Europe's top 5.

  13. #15208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    A few people have argued that Neymar’s fee is amortized over the length of his contract, but that’s only possible if there’s a debt to pay off.
    No it's not.

    Amortization doesn't only have to do with debt. It deals with assets too.

    Accounting wise, you amortize assets over their useful lives regardless of when the cash flows happen.

  14. #15209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alik View Post
    No it's not.

    Amortization doesn't only have to do with debt. It deals with assets too.

    Accounting wise, you amortize assets over their useful lives regardless of when the cash flows happen.
    Is this standard, or optional?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    PSG winning the league by 13 points is a much better indicator of how strong the league is rather than a smaller team dominating you in one game. Means nothing.. look at Barca vs Levante last season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    Points gap between first and second, Europes top 5 leagues:

    La Liga: 14
    EPL: 19
    Serie A: 4
    Bundesliga: 21
    Ligue 1: 13

    According to your own criteria, Ligue 1 is the second strongest league of Europe's top 5.

  15. #15210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Ventura View Post
    Is this standard, or optional?

    That’s what everyone has been trying to explain to you for about 10 pages.

    Whether the payment was paid in full or not... for FFP the amount on the accounts will be spread out over the contract length or a certain amount of time.

    This makes it easier for clubs to keep within FFP every year.

    Did you actually think it would be possible to meet FFP if PSG had -222million Euro’s + wages etc for one year.