Neymar Jr. - v5

Giginho75

Giginho75

New member
when i'm logged on this forum, i could never think all these criticism about neymar...

i'm almost shocked to read someone would like to sell him...

it's true that in the past (and right now) we have seen the best players of history with blaugrana's kit and it's also true sometime he exceeds in the dribbling attempts against two/three/four opponents...

but we are talking of the current best brasilian player, with already a lot of records with his national team...
and in blaugrana (in four years) he won already many trophies where he has been great protagonist with goals, assists and amazing actions...
and he has a "strong leg" during the run with the ball on the wing to jump the opponent...

he's and stays one of the best players of the team...
furthermore (very important thing) he has a natural feeling with messi (on the field and outside)...

i think the comparison with messi is unuseful (who can win against leo?)...
they are teammates, not rivals...

does someone think there are better players than neymar for fcb?
Some names please...just to understand ;-)
 
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BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Giginho75 said:
does someone think there are better players than neymar for fcb?
Some names please...just to understand ;-)
Click to expand...

NBA analogy:
Imagine a player who shoots 60 balls per match and scores 15 out of 60, let's say 30 points.
But since he is somewhat selfish, isn't assisting too much=that leads his team to NOT playing as a team, they play individualistic and somewhat chaotic.
Plus they are prone to 10-20-30 counters during the match due to a style of play of their key player/playmaker

On the other hand, if you remove that star player and put a less flashy, but way different playmaker, he will shoot less balls, let's say only 30 shots per match.
That guy will shoot less, score more (let's say 20 out of 30 attempts), but he will try to create way more team-actions instead of individual solo actions for 90% of time.
That means that a team will lose a flashy star player, but they will get more balanced and all-round team.
None of players will score as much as the star player from the first example, but now more players will be involved in build up and shooting.
Team will become less run and gun and one dimensional.
Plus, a team will be way less prone to counters in this style of play, which means less easy points for an opponents.

You see, even in this example, none player can match the stats of a key player from an example no1.
But instead of only looking at number of points in Nba or number of dribbles and flashy moves in football, when you dig slightly deeper, there are tons of other factors involved:
1. How many balls/attempts this Nba/Barca guy needs to actually create some end product?
Is it worth it (60 attempts, 45 lost balls/misses)?
2. How does these things influence his teammates and team's style of play
3. Chaotic style leading to being prone to 100s of counters

So, this debate is way deeper and more complicated than: name me a player who is better than Neymar.
(Better in what? In dribbling? What about 99 other factors that are influencing a team, matches and long term scores?)
 
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J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
NBA analogy:
Imagine a player who shoots 60 balls per match and scores 15 out of 60, let's say 30 points.
But since he is somewhat selfish, isn't assisting too much=that leads his team to NOT playing as a team, they play individualistic and somewhat chaotic.
Plus they are prone to 10-20-30 counters during the match due to a style of play of their key player/playmaker

On the other hand, if you remove that star player and put a less flashy, but way different playmaker, he will shoot less balls, let's say only 30 shots per match.
That guy will shoot less, score more (let's say 20 out of 30 attempts), but he will try to create way more team-actions instead of individual solo actions for 90% of time.
That means that a team will lose a flashy star player, but they will get more balanced and all-round team.
None of players will score as much as the star player from the first example, but now more players will be involved in build up and shooting.
Team will become less run and gun and one dimensional.
Plus, a team will be way less prone to counters in this style of play, which means less easy points for an opponents.

You see, even in this example, none player can match the stats of a key player from an example no1.
But instead of only looking at number of points in Nba or number of dribbles and flashy moves in football, when you dig slightly deeper, there are tons of other factors involved:
1. How many balls/attempts this Nba/Barca guy needs to actually create some end product?
Is it worth it (60 attempts, 45 lost balls/misses)?
2. How does these things influence his teammates and team's style of play
3. Chaotic style leading to being prone to 100s of counters

So, this debate is way deeper and more complicated than: name me a player who is better than Neymar.
(Better in what? In dribbling? What about 99 other factors that are influencing a team, matches and long term scores?)
Click to expand...

That analogy falls down by the fact Neymar is creating more chances than anyone else in the team and in his time at the team only wide player that beats his productivity in terms of stats in recent years is Messi.

A better NBA analogy may be that Neymar is the best two way player in the team for what he offers in attack and defensive side of game.

Neymar does plenty for the team.
 
Potroh

Potroh

New member
BBZ8800 said:
Plus, a team will be way less prone to counters in this style of play, which means less easy points for an opponents.
Click to expand...

So your newest "analogy" goes for Neymar being the cause of conceding goals...:thumbsup:
(Next time you will come up with a bedminton analogy or perhaps darts?)
EVERYONE here knows your crotchet or fixation with Neymar, can't you just simply STOP it and have a nice summer vacation???
 
Giginho75

Giginho75

New member
BBZ8800 said:
So, this debate is way deeper and more complicated than: name me a player who is better than Neymar.
(Better in what? In dribbling? What about 99 other factors that are influencing a team, matches and long term scores?)
Click to expand...

i respect your point of view, but instead i think that the debate is not so complicated... ;-)

his support and influence so far has been much positive, despite some situations where he has been very selfish and chaotic (in this factors he must improve)...

about my question
if someone would sell him, i'm curious to know which players are better (for "better" i mean a player able as neymar to score, to assist, to exchange the ball with messi)...

we have other problems, not certainly neymar...
my opinion, it's clear.
 
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BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
catalinutzR80 said:
exchange neymar with anyother non flashy lw and we will go back to same messi dependency we had with tata.
Click to expand...

We don't need to go into extremes with changing Neymar with some average players.
We had Pedro-Alexis-Messi in 2012/13.

Imagine Griezmann/Coutinho-Suarez-Messi.
That would be surely better than Alexis-Pedro-Messi.

There are middle ground options between MSN and Pedro-Alexis attack.

KingMessi said:
BBZ with the basketball analogy :worthy:

Stay in your lane man. :lol:
Click to expand...

I don't like basketball too much.
I just wanted to make an analogy with another sport how you can be successful in one part of a game (or the best in the world), but still "harming" your team more than you are bringing to a team, in spite of your record stats in one part of a game (number of points for an NBA player or a number of dribbles and shiny moves in Neymar's case).

Potroh said:
So your newest "analogy" goes for Neymar being the cause of conceding goals...:thumbsup:
(Next time you will come up with a bedminton analogy or perhaps darts?)
EVERYONE here knows your crotchet or fixation with Neymar, can't you just simply STOP it and have a nice summer vacation???
Click to expand...

His style of play can surely turn team's play into chaotic, more prone to counters after 10s of lost balls and draining the energy of already old midfielders who need to run up and down all the time to attack and then into a defense when Neymar ends an action after 10 seconds.

For example, try to count how many times our 2 Cms had to run back into defense in Pep's Barca and in Neymar's Barca.

In possession football, Cms were all the time around opponent's box with only some defensive actions each few minutes.
In today's Barca, largely to Ney's style, Cms need to run up and down probably each 30-60 seconds for 90 minutes.
After 45 minutes, of course that Rakitic and Busi will have less energy to do something in attack, and they will get worse and worse in defending also.

Ney will indirectly tire Raki and Iniesta, and then when they'll be dead tired in the 2nd half, Ney won't have any choice but to play 1 vs 1 again since none of midfielders are trying to link up (they are dead, with zero energy).
 
Devils

Devils

Senior Member
Probably the player I'm most interested to see under Valverde next season.

In 2015, for me Neymar was easily the second best player in the world. Right now at the end of the 2017 season, I'd have to debate even putting him in the top 10.

Definitely hope he gets back to his best under Valverde.
 
P

Pepe Silvia

Active member
Devils said:
Probably the player I'm most interested to see under Valverde next season.

In 2015, for me Neymar was easily the second best player in the world. Right now at the end of the 2017 season, I'd have to debate even putting him in the top 10.

Definitely hope he gets back to his best under Valverde.
Click to expand...
this
 
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