Neymar Jr. - v5

mark1nhu

mark1nhu

New member
Windhook said:
I agree with @dakt and I feel bad for saying this but we played better without Neymar. I'm not sure what impact he would have on Carvajal's performance, I see them both as equally good.
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It's close to impossible to measure how much we played better DUE TO Neymar's absence or due to other factors (including Madrid's naiveness/dumbness). The same way we can't say how much he was responsible for the remontada against PSG and how the match would turns out without him, even though we know for sure he was important for that.

Anyone trying to splash a dissertation about it here is just making efforts to make it fit personal preferences and agenda (as usual).

There is simply nothing to see here. We played well/decently without him, the same way we played well/decently without other important players on other important matches (like the 4x0 against Madri, when we were simply great, without Messi).

Anyway, before the usual suspects come here to attack me, I would like to say: I am eager to see Lucho out, some better coach coming in and at least 2 world class players to our midfield, so Neymar can focus again on being a lethal winger instead of a playmaking, because he is far from the great player I see when taking this much build-up responsibility.
 
Windhook

Windhook

Well-known member
mark1nhu said:
It's close to impossible to measure how much we played better DUE TO Neymar's absence or due to other factors (including Madrid's naiveness/dumbness). The same way we can't say how much he was responsible for the remontada against PSG and how the match would turns out without him, even though we know for sure he was important for that.
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First of all, I'm not making an agenda here, I am giving an opinion. I absolutely love, adore and respect Neymar.

Second - he is solely responsible for taking Barcelona to the 1/4 finals of the Champions League.

Third - Neymar and Suarez made a fantastic duo while Messi was injured. Once Messi returned it was all about the Argentine and by saying that I mean Suarez and Neymar instead of scoring themselves they would seek a killer pass to Messi. Now that Neymar was/is suspended for the El Clasico, Messi raised his game to compensate for Ney's absence. And it was a masterpiece performance.
 
evilhita666

evilhita666

Barçapocalypse NOW!
It was only one game, so it's hard to draw conclusions from that... The same can be said when we beat RM 0 - 4 without Messi on the pitch for 60+ minutes or something like that...

I think Neymar holds on to the ball too long and all that stuff, so I'm not going to repeat that or all the flwas in his game, however, I think it's unfair to say we play better without him with just a single game as proof...
 
mark1nhu

mark1nhu

New member
Windhook said:
First of all, I'm not making an agenda here, I am giving an opinion. I absolutely love, adore and respect Neymar.

Second - he is solely responsible for taking Barcelona to the 1/4 finals of the Champions League.

Third - Neymar and Suarez made a fantastic duo while Messi was injured. Once Messi returned it was all about the Argentine and by saying that I mean Suarez and Neymar instead of scoring themselves they would seek a killer pass to Messi. Now that Neymar was/is suspended for the El Clasico, Messi raised his game to compensate for Ney's absence. And it was a masterpiece performance.
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Wasn't referring to you on the "agenda" part, despite quoting you. Sorry if I made you think that.

evilhita666 said:
It was only one game, so it's hard to draw conclusions from that... The same can be said when we beat RM 0 - 4 without Messi on the pitch for 60+ minutes or something like that...

I think Neymar holds on to the ball too long and all that stuff, so I'm not going to repeat that or all the flwas in his game, however, I think it's unfair to say we play better without him with just a single game as proof...
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Kudos for your coherence here, I really admire that. It's a shame we just can't expect that from everyone.
 
A

abiabi

Member
We play better with teams that give us more space. Period. Madrid, Bayern and City are probably the only 3 teams in the world that allow us space.

Neymar didn't play against Deportivo away, and we were terrible.
 
Total-Football

Total-Football

Senior Member
I still stand by my theory that big stadiums allow our team to play more comfortably because it helps us pass the ball around better .. We play in stadiums like " ettihad - bernabeu - emirates " a hundred times better than in smaller stadiums.
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
abiabi said:
We play better with teams that give us more space. Period. Madrid, Bayern and City are probably the only 3 teams in the world that allow us space.

Neymar didn't play against Deportivo away, and we were terrible.
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Please, find another excuse for that.
Against Deportivo we played 3 days after an epic psg comeback and we played with gomes-denis midfield, which is officially the worst possible midfield available.

So, ok, the sample is too small (Barca playing without Neymar), but imo, please, stop mention Depor's match.

Iirc, Arda did play as a lw a few times in autumn instead of Neymar and we usually always played well and more fluid.

An interesting fact, Barca without Neymar this season:
Super cup:
Sevilla 2:0
Sevilla 3:0
La liga:
Betis 6:2
Bilbao away 1:0
Osasuna away 3:0
Las Palmas 5:0
Deportivo away 1:2
Sociedad 3:2
Real away 3:2
Cl: Monchengladbach 4:0
Cdr: Atletico 1:1

Total:
9 wins
1 draw
1 defeat

Barca with Neymar:
26 wins
7 draws
7 defeats
Or 26 wins and 14 matches without a win, compared with 9:2 ratio without Neymar.
True, we played with some tougher cl teams with him, but still, 9-1-1 seems like a very nice ratio of wins (without Neymar).
Another interesting stat, in both times when we played without Neymar and when we havent won (Deportivo and cdr atletico) we played with famous Gomes-Denis midfield duo.
If I would exaggerate, I could say: remove Neymar, Gomes and Denis and we'll win almost every match.

Anyway, a sample without Neymar isn't too large. But if we'll win against Osasuna, that will be 10-1-1 ratio in 12 matches without him.
 
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Total-Football

Total-Football

Senior Member
abiabi said:
We play better with teams that give us more space. Period. Madrid, Bayern and City are probably the only 3 teams in the world that allow us space.

Neymar didn't play against Deportivo away, and we were terrible.
Click to expand...

It's true that Real Madrid were sitting 10 meters deeper than Juventus or PSG (1 sl leg), i don't think it's due to their style alone but also to the fatigue because they played extra 30 minutes compared to us.
 
A

abiabi

Member
BBZ8800 said:
Please, find another excuse for that.
Against Deportivo we played 3 days after an epic psg comeback and we played with gomes-denis midfield, which is officially the worst possible midfield available.

So, ok, the sample is too small (Barca playing without Neymar), but imo, please, stop mention Depor's match.

Iirc, Arda did play as a lw a few times in autumn instead of Neymar and we usually always played well and more fluid.

An interesting fact, Barca without Neymar this season:
Super cup:
Sevilla 2:0
Sevilla 3:0
La liga:
Betis 6:2
Bilbao away 1:0
Osasuna away 3:0
Las Palmas 5:0
Deportivo away 1:2
Sociedad 3:2
Real away 3:2
Cl: Monchengladbach 4:0
Cdr: Atletico 1:1

Total:
9 wins
1 draw
1 defeat

Barca with Neymar:
26 wins
7 draws
7 defeats
Or 26 wins and 14 matches without a win, compared with 9:2 ratio without Neymar.
True, we played with some tougher cl teams with him, but still, 9-1-1 seems like a very nice ratio of wins (without Neymar).
Another interesting stat, in both times when we played without Neymar and when we havent won (Deportivo and cdr atletico) we played with famous Gomes-Denis midfield duo.
If I would exaggerate, I could say: remove Neymar, Gomes and Denis and we'll win almost every match.

Anyway, a sample without Neymar isn't too large. But if we'll win against Osasuna, that will be 10-1-1 ratio in 12 matches without him.
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Not even you are proud of a such a craapy post are you?

Yeah lets compare Neymar's opponents which are Juve away, PSG away and all tough fixtures to games where basically he got rest because the fixture is easy.

In fact, the only two tough fixtures there (Atletico and Deportivo away) we didn't win. (Apart from yesterday)
 
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M

MIXA

New member
BBZ8800 said:
Please, find another excuse for that.
Against Deportivo we played 3 days after an epic psg comeback and we played with gomes-denis midfield, which is officially the worst possible midfield available.

So, ok, the sample is too small (Barca playing without Neymar), but imo, please, stop mention Depor's match.

Iirc, Arda did play as a lw a few times in autumn instead of Neymar and we usually always played well and more fluid.

An interesting fact, Barca without Neymar this season:
Super cup:
Sevilla 2:0
Sevilla 3:0
La liga:
Betis 6:2
Bilbao away 1:0
Osasuna away 3:0
Las Palmas 5:0
Deportivo away 1:2
Sociedad 3:2
Real away 3:2
Cl: Monchengladbach 4:0
Cdr: Atletico 1:1

Total:
9 wins
1 draw
1 defeat

Barca with Neymar:
26 wins
7 draws
7 defeats
Or 26 wins and 14 matches without a win, compared with 9:2 ratio without Neymar.
True, we played with some tougher cl teams with him, but still, 9-1-1 seems like a very nice ratio of wins (without Neymar).
Another interesting stat, in both times when we played without Neymar and when we havent won (Deportivo and cdr atletico) we played with famous Gomes-Denis midfield duo.
If I would exaggerate, I could say: remove Neymar, Gomes and Denis and we'll win almost every match.

Anyway, a sample without Neymar isn't too large. But if we'll win against Osasuna, that will be 10-1-1 ratio in 12 matches without him.
Click to expand...

I find this to be a ridiculous statement. Football is not only about ratios and stats. You are forgetting about the aspect of football that cannot be put into numbers. Neymar's undeniable footballing quality far exceeds any replacement we have for him.

Take Messi vs Ronaldo as an example. If you only looked at their stats alone and never watched a single game they played, you would think that they are both on the same level. But Messi has qualities that no stat or ratio could ever tell you. Messi has certain skills that you can only see by watching the game.

Neymar, just like Messi, brings added footballing quality that you do not see from the ratios. To drop Neymar and replace him with Paco/Turan/Denis is just madness. The overall footballing quality of the side declines without Neymar.
 
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Windhook

Windhook

Well-known member
MIXA said:
I find this to be a ridiculous statement. Football is not only about ratios and stats. You are forgetting about the aspect of football that cannot be put into numbers. Neymar's undeniable footballing quality far exceeds any replacement we have for him.

Take Messi vs Ronaldo as an example. If you only looked at their stats alone and never watched a single game they played, you would think that they are both on the same level. But Messi has qualities that no stat or ratio could ever tell you. Messi has certain skills that you can only see by watching the game.

Neyamr, just like Messi, brings added footballing quality that you do not see from the ratios. To drop Neymar and replace him with Paco/Turan/Denis is just madness. The overall footballing quality of the side declines without Neymar.
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Spot on.
 
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