10 - Lionel Messi - v5

serghei said:

Except it's not one single game. We've had this problem with Barcelona as well in CL. Messi marked out, him being kind of lazy, and us not being able to do anything while the other teams score goal after goal.

Plenty of cases that show Messi in a midfield oriented doesn't work against serious opponents, and that he needs to be asigned a clearer position on the field.

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Put Modric instead of Rakitic, and Coutinho instead of 34 year old Iniesta and let us see. We lack ANY MF creativity, and as Don said, we can't hold a ball well enough under pressure. We require someone to control the tempo and link up with AM such as Coutinho or Iniesta. We do not have it, didn't have it for years and now we went out and bought him (Artur). In Argentina yesterday you had Biglia and Mascherano as midfield...I mean, that is as uncreative and pressure prone as they come. This is pure and simple knee jerk reaction to extreme expectations. People are saying Maradona this, Maradona that...They lost 1st game in 1990, barely scrapped as 3rd team, won next two on penalties (that Maradona missed), and somehow ended in finals. People are talking about THAT year and Maradona being different then Messi...sigh.

From your perspective, where would you put Messi in this Argentina side? He plays 10, that goes back and takes ball 40m from his own GK since Mascherano and Biglia can't do it on regular basis. They are not Koke and Busquets...

blaugrana1987 said:

Put Modric instead of Rakitic, and Coutinho instead of 34 year old Iniesta and let us see. We lack ANY MF creativity, and as Don said, we can't hold a ball well enough under pressure. We require someone to control the tempo and link up with AM such as Coutinho or Iniesta. We do not have it, didn't have it for years and now we went out and bought him (Artur). In Argentina yesterday you had Biglia and Mascherano as midfield...I mean, that is as uncreative and pressure prone as they come. This is pure and simple knee jerk reaction to extreme expectations. People are saying Maradona this, Maradona that...They lost 1st game in 1990, barely scrapped as 3rd team, won next two on penalties (that Maradona missed), and somehow ended in finals. People are talking about THAT year and Maradona being different then Messi...sigh.

From your perspective, where would you put Messi in this Argentina side? He plays 10, that goes back and takes ball 40m from his own GK since Mascherano and Biglia can't do it on regular basis. They are not Koke and Busquets...

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Best position for Messi at this point is no doubt right side forward-winger. Basically where Neymar plays for Brazil only on the opposite side. This false10 mumbo jumbo where he goes wherever he pleases at slow pace waiting for the ball to land on his feet needs to stop. Both in Argentina and in Barca.

serghei said:

Best position for Messi at this point is no doubt right side forward-winger. Basically where Neymar plays for Brazil only on the opposite side. This false10 mumbo jumbo where he goes wherever he pleases at slow pace waiting for the ball to land on his feet needs to stop. Both in Argentina and in Barca.

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Right wing is clearly not his best position

Barca83 said:

Right wing is clearly not his best position

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No? Last time he was great in CL he played on the right drifting inside.

serghei said:

No? Last time he was great in CL he played on the right drifting inside.

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consistently great you mean. he was great in patches this season. chelsea home, juve home. he hasn't delivered as much as is expected of a player of his stature in last 3 years but it's not like the last great CL game he played was in 2015.

serghei said:

No? Last time he was great in CL he played on the right drifting inside.

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when he was 27 and had peak Neymar, Suarez, and Alves around him

He clearly has some anxiety issues.

Messi's thought process is "Whatever I do, it has to be the absolute best possible decision every time I have the ball". When he's nervous, he's paralyzed with overthinking. When he's not nervous, he plays much more on instinct. Then he's not afraid to try things.

A player like Ronaldo is different because, truth be told, he doesn't have that many things he can do with the ball. His thought process is more like "I'm gonna do what I do and I'm gonna do it 100%. Maybe I fail, but it's all I got."

One of the things that we all love about Messi is that natural, child-like way in which he plays the game; but it happens so often in life our greatest strengths become our greatest weakness. Because when Leo is in a position of great pressure and has to really strain and force the way he plays you get the opposite of that magical footballer he has inside, and instead it becomes a task for him, a grind and that seemingly turns off his muse. Quite the opposite of Ronaldo who thrives on pushing himself beyond the limit. Now I'm not saying that Leo should be treated like a child and not expected to handle pressure, even if it is an insane amount, because that's what athletes are expected to do especially the greatest athletes, but nevertheless the best version of Messi is the one that goes out into the pitch and plays without a care, just simply plays.

Unfortunately his own people have made it much harder for him to ever feel that way.

BusiTheKing said:

He clearly has some anxiety issues.

Messi's thought process is "Whatever I do, it has to be the absolute best possible decision every time I have the ball". When he's nervous, he's paralyzed with overthinking. When he's not nervous, he plays much more on instinct. Then he's not afraid to try things.

A player like Ronaldo is different because, truth be told, he doesn't have that many things he can do with the ball. His thought process is more like "I'm gonna do what I do and I'm gonna do it 100%. Maybe I fail, but it's all I got."

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Thats because nobody will say shit. Back in 2014, nobody even noticed he was one of the biggest dissapointments in WC because pressure on him there is minimal. For Messi, had he scored in final, people would still say "But Maradona scored goal of century". Ronaldo didn't even play Euro final and they won, acted like he took over the world. Messi was undisputed POTT in Copa and they lost in final in stupidest way imaginable = Messi sucks.

blaugrana1987 said:

Thats because nobody will say shit. Back in 2014, nobody even noticed he was one of the biggest dissapointments in WC because pressure on him there is minimal. For Messi, had he scored in final, people would still say "But Maradona scored goal of century". Ronaldo didn't even play Euro final and they won, acted like he took over the world. Messi was undisputed POTT in Copa and they lost in final in stupidest way imaginable = Messi sucks.

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This is why i have so much respect for this man. He literally couldve stayed retired after all the shit that was thrown at him, yet he decided to come back to the shit fest that argentine fans are and try again. Just imagine what could be achieved if his own people fuking showed some respect for one of the greatest players ever. In the qualifiers he was trying to set his team mates up they wanted none of it, missing chances left right and centre. Then he dragged this sorry ass of a team to world cup finals all by himself by scoring a hattrick in probably one of the MOST high pressure games after going 1-0 down.

Like i said before, he played well against iceland bar a few things and missing the penalty. The problem is that the closet haters and pessimists smell blood in the water and are pouncing on this fella when they can. Cant believe the shit im reading in this forum after the season he has had.

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Are these quotes fake or what is going on with Maradona?

BusiTheKing said:

He clearly has some anxiety issues.

Messi's thought process is "Whatever I do, it has to be the absolute best possible decision every time I have the ball". When he's nervous, he's paralyzed with overthinking. When he's not nervous, he plays much more on instinct. Then he's not afraid to try things.

A player like Ronaldo is different because, truth be told, he doesn't have that many things he can do with the ball. His thought process is more like "I'm gonna do what I do and I'm gonna do it 100%. Maybe I fail, but it's all I got."

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You are right he has anxiety issues. The moments when camera pick him up gagging on the pitch- there he is, under tremendous amount of stress. People claimed its the hormones acting up (absolutely BS btw), straightaway I know it's anxiety. I suffer from the same issue at times.

Especially under Argentina, at this state, and the fact that it's ultimately his last World Cup ever, no doubt he's under triple the amount of pressure. Honestly, all the advertisements and endorsements, calling him GOAT, the flashing banners during the game was honestly unnecessary. I'm pretty sure he feels even more subdued because of all the limelight. He's probably thinking: "All eyes are on me, I have to prove I'm the GOAT, Ronaldo scored a hattrick last night..."

When Iceland scored that goal I know half of him already deflated, which led to that penalty miss.

I don't know, people are disappointed, surely, Ronaldo under such circumstances does seem like "the better player" but I truly feel for him. It's extremely disheartening to see him in such a state, almost to the point I feel like encouraging him in person.

Clearly he is overthinking which affects his decision making. He should not overthink to much on how to get past opponents, or do "impressive stuff", or be as flashy as Ronaldo, he doesnt need to, even though he always feel the need to be extraordinary in every match, which adds on to the pressure. He just needs to keep in simple, look for space, quick pass and a give and go, no need for fancy one-twos, he can do all the complicated stuff when he finds he is in a good situation to do so.

I do hope he recover from the mental turmoil he has inside of him. As long as he solves what's in his head, everything comes naturally.

Yeah, what the fuck was up with those GOAT banners from Adidas? That’s the kind of shit you would expect them doing for Ronaldo. They should know Leo better by now.

Why does nobody analyse Ronaldos performances like they do with Messi especially as he has so much more poor ones. His are swept under the carpet and forgotten about whilst Messi's off days are gone over with a fine toothed comb.

Ronaldo is average for most of the season, contributing to his team falling out of the title race by Christmas but scores an overhead kick and it's all forgiven and forgotten. Messi carries his team on his back to a double but 2 or 3 poor games and most are on his back criticising him, saying he is past his best, Ronaldo is a clutch player Messi is weak mentally bla bla bla, some of the crap on here is barely believable sometimes.

ebc_99 said:

Why does nobody analyse Ronaldos performances like they do with Messi especially as he has so much more poor ones. His are swept under the carpet and forgotten about whilst Messi's off days are gone over with a fine toothed comb.

Ronaldo is average for most of the season, contributing to his team falling out of the title race by Christmas but scores an overhead kick and it's all forgiven and forgotten. Messi carries his team on his back to a double but 2 or 3 poor games and most are on his back criticising him, saying he is past his best, Ronaldo is a clutch player Messi is weak mentally bla bla bla, some of the crap on here is barely believable sometimes.

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It's like I told [MENTION=22463]Joan Laporta[/MENTION], it's not about how they perform relative to each other (that's a forgone conclusion at this stage) but about the goals they score.

The other day I likened it to being served piss and vinegar and convinced it's champagne. That's this version of Ronaldo's football.

The Man Utd version was an extraordinary player.