10 - Lionel Messi - v5

FlaFCB said:

Verratti wasn't that far away from Iniesta. And there was only Cavani near the cbs, Busquets didn't need to be there. The other players ran after their counter started. Which Busquets could have helped intercept, if he was in the middle. Messi was there to collect the ball because we weren't creating anything. As he often drops deep to collect the ball. Thinking this was a mistake is what boggles my mind.

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About Iniesta, you have to be kidding to believe he should have caught Verrati with his age, just after chasing Draxler.

Busquets would be in his position if we had lost the ball up on the pitch, mainly because the three PSG men would track back.

We had only 2 Players in the middle while PSG had 5 so losing the ball there was always gonna be dangerous.

mark1nhu said:

LOL, are you sure you have watched the goals?

Because Meunier got the ball from a PSG defender. That's right, they had the possession at that time!!!

Meunier got the ball from a defender, then dribbled Neymar and went forward. Neymar DIDN'T lose the ball to him and the team was not wrong footed.

I hope this (and the pass from Verrati to Draxler, then Draxler to Verrati) is just an honest mistake from you. Not you trying to be right when you aren't, just for the sake of it.

About Messi's mistake...

Busi was between the defenders as he usually does when he have the possession. And there were 3 PSG men over Pique and Umtiti, so he was needed there.

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Yeah, Neymar only got dribbled, this was a mistake from my part. But they were in their half, defending against us.

About the mistake, there was only Cavani on the cbs, the other psg players weren't there yet.
Gomes wasn't available for a pass, Bob neither, and that made Messi not have that many passing options as you say. He only had Iniesta, who was marked by Verratti. Messi would never pass the ball backwards there, it's not his m.o. Our middle was a big void.

FlaFCB said:

Yeah, Neymar only got dribbled, this was a mistake from my part. But they were in their half, defending against us.

About the mistake, there was only Cavani on the cbs, the other psg players weren't there yet.
Gomes wasn't available for a pass, Bob neither, and that made Messi not have that many passing options as you say. He only had Iniesta, who was marked by Verratti. Messi would never pass the ball backwards there, it's not his m.o. Our middle was a big void.

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He also had Alba, he is totally capable of passing to him, even not being the closest man.

Also, wtf about Messi never passing the ball backwards? This is simply not true. You are just looking to justify his horrible mistake.

mark1nhu said:

He also had Alba, he is totally capable of passing to him, even not being the closest man.

Also, wtf a this about Messi never passing the ball backwards? This is simply not true. You are just looking to justify his horrible mistake.

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No, I'm not. Just don't think it's fair to say the goal is only on him. And Alba wasn't in a very good position to get the pass. There was a psg player there. His only pass option was Iniesta. And Rabiot was on him the minute he got the ball.


He doesn't pass it backwards when he's trying to bring the ball forward. When Barça is winning, he does it to keep possession, but not on that case.

FlaFCB said:

The reason is he was trying to create something. These days it's the only way something happens. Barça don't have an organized attack anymore, it's all improvised. And Messi is often alone, without support from the rcm or the rb.

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I'd agree. But, given those circumstances, it's a poor decision. He's got to get between the lines and show some movement. That way 1) he's protected if he loses the ball, 2) he's not defending anyhow, so no need for him to play so deep.

BerkeleyBernie said:

I'd agree. But, given those circumstances, it's a poor decision. He's got to get between the lines and show some movement. That way 1) he's protected if he loses the ball, 2) he's not defending anyhow, so no need for him to play so deep.

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He doesn't see the ball, then. He's already getting fewer touches than what he used to. He was only the 8 player in touches vs psg. All the defenders had more touches than Messi.

Would get more touches if he would move in open space.There was sometimes huge amount of space between PSG Midfield and Defense but no Barca Player there....
The Team is just way to static barely any movement.

xavi_the_Boss said:

Would get more touches if he would move in open space.There was sometimes huge amount of space between PSG Midfield and Defense but no Barca Player there....
The Team is just way to static barely any movement.

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Just watch Mertens for example. Always moving between the lines asking for the ball. Messi walks in the middle. Mertens makes himself a clear target bisecting defenders. Messi just wants the ball at his feet no matter what and figures he can take on whatever is there. But it makes him a much harder target to find.

mark1nhu said:

As you can see, Iniesta was at least 4 meters from Draxler. I don't know about you, but I don't expect an old guy like Iniesta to catch a younger one with this distance.

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Draxler gave the ball back to Verrati, who was completely alone, since Messi didn't track back after his own fuck up.

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You don't expect an old central midfielder (32) to catch a young one (24), but you do expect a slightly younger player (30) that never tracked back in vast majority of his career to chase that same younger player that continued a counter?

mark1nhu said:

This moment Iniesta was completely sold (same goes for Alba since the beginning). Both of them couldn't do shit to hold Draxler or Verrati.

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Messi was sold after he immediately ran to intercept Verratti's pass to Draxler and failed. Even agile defenders like Mascherano couldn't stand a chance to catch him from that position (with his back behind and with the opponend already with ball at feet in offensive movement). I'm surprised you expected tracking back in that situation from a forward that never developed effective tracking back routine during his career, but absolve a generally defensively astute central midfielder for jogging around in dead space.

mark1nhu said:

if Messi didn't take an unnecessary risk, when he had passing options, as I already pointed out.

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Many great goals wouldn't be scored if Messi didn't take unnecessary risk. Sometimes you fail and you get punished in this sport.

Messi's great mistake was that he allowed to get dispossessed in that situation and is directly responsible for the goal, but that's it regarding this goal. Criticizing him for not tracking back there would be the same as criticizing Pedro for not dribbling through 5 players - most players just lack/don't develop certain skills/techniques.

Messi screwed up, but the least we can expect is having someone to bail him out, like he has done for others on more times than I can count...

It's unbelievable that PSG players were able to run unopposed with the ball straight into our box...

Iarwain said:

You don't expect an old central midfielder (32) to catch a young one (24), but you do expect a slightly younger player (30) that never tracked back in vast majority of his career to chase that same younger player that continued a counter?



Messi was sold after he immediately ran to intercept Verratti's pass to Draxler and failed. Even agile defenders like Mascherano couldn't stand a chance to catch him from that position (with his back behind and with the opponend already with ball at feet in offensive movement). I'm surprised you expected tracking back in that situation from a forward that never developed effective tracking back routine during his career, but absolve a generally defensively astute central midfielder for jogging around in dead space.



Many great goals wouldn't be scored if Messi didn't take unnecessary risk. Sometimes you fail and you get punished in this sport.

Messi's great mistake was that he allowed to get dispossessed in that situation and is directly responsible for the goal, but that's it regarding this goal. Criticizing him for not tracking back there would be the same as criticizing Pedro for not dribbling through 5 players - most players just lack/don't develop certain skills/techniques.

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Man, you really missed my point.

I am not ranting about Messi not tracking back after his own fuck up, there is literally ONE phrase about it. I am ranting about the fuck up itself, when he sold his teammates.

I couldn't care less if he is 30 years old and usually don't track back. What I care is a player of his caliber taking this kind of risk in a very dangerous situation when he had passing options available.

Please read all the discussion again, because you're talking about things I am not arguing (although I mentioned in ONE SINGLE phrase).

Finally, there are different kinds of risk. I am all for forwards taking risks in the appropriated zone AND situation (like trying to counter attack after a corner, when your whole team is in your own box), but this one was a very dumb one to take.

Anyway, I am out of this discussion. I don't know what I had in my mind when I decided to (correctly and fairly) criticize our biggest legend. Of course there would be people misunderstanding it and people also defending the unbelievable.

FlaFCB said:

No, I'm not. Just don't think it's fair to say the goal is only on him. And Alba wasn't in a very good position to get the pass. There was a psg player there. His only pass option was Iniesta. And Rabiot was on him the minute he got the ball.

He doesn't pass it backwards when he's trying to bring the ball forward. When Barça is winning, he does it to keep possession, but not on that case.

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Oh right, Messi can't do that pass for Alba.

Ok, Flavia, ok...

Let's just agree to disagree then.

lol the majority of the forum realising only now what was wrong with him the whole time already..

as i am one step ahead of you i can assure you it was all part of his plan. to make his comeback more epic. hattrick in the first half coming.

joke aside. if he really wants it and the team can help him getting the ball on a much more advanced position, he can score 2-3. i still believe in him and the team.
we can do it!!

We cant do it, as we dont have a capable manager.

It`s not a problem if he is lazy when we are defending. He is like that for many years now, same as many other attackers. The problem is when he is lazy when we attack. He is just too static and quality opponents shut him out of the game. It`s not a coincidence that he disappears in many big games lately. Quality teams know how to cover space and he doesn`t move too much to receive the ball, therefore he is out of the game for the bigger part of 90 minutes.