10 - Lionel Messi - v5

aaron101

aaron101

Active member
Ousmane Dembélé said:
The Copa America in 2020 isn't a special edition of the tournament like it was in 2016, CONMEBOL just wanted to make the tournament align with the EUROS, so these back to back Copas are going to be a one time thing. After 2020 the next Copa will be in 2024.
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Wow so that's 4 Copa Americas since 2015 and Argentina still couldn't/might not win it. Argentina really has to win one for Messi before he retires. That's way too many chances to fuck things up again.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
Ousmane Dembélé said:
Yup, his off ball movement is atrocious these days. He just stands still in once place and basically choreographs to the opponent where he's going to receive the ball. So all the opposition have to do is send a couple players to stand close to him and cut out his supply. He needs create more space for himself and make more runs to get the ball in space.

Also I think Messi is one of the only players whom I watched where I can tell whether he's going to have a good match from the first 5 minutes or so. From the second I saw Messi put Casemiro on his backside in that match against Madrid last season I knew he came to play and was going to have a great match and other times when I see him get repeatedly get dispossessed and look lifeless in possession I can tell he's not up for the match. He does occasionally turn a bad match individually into a good one after half time, but this doesn't occur all that frequently.

A lot of the time in the big CL matches Messi doesn't come ready to play and looks mentally absent, he needs to be able to figure out a way to turn in himself on and get himself up for the big matches. Too often he looks like he doesn't even want to be on the pitch. I believe this a mental barrier and can be overcome with a few tweaks to his lifestyle and mentality.
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It's become common place to criticise Messi's non-existent movement but Messi's game has never been about off the ball movement. Never! It's always been about receiving the ball in the right areas and this was made to look very simple with prime Xavi and Iniesta. That he has battled recently in big games is testament to the fact that Barcelona, under Lucho, changed to a more direct style which relies heavily on off the ball movement.

When he was used as a False 9 earlier this season you could immediately pick up that he was back in his comfort zone because he could finish moves he started himself from a deeper position through clever passes and runs with the ball at his feet. I understand people's frustration regarding it though but Messi, for lack of better terminology, has always relied on his understanding of space and timing not off the ball movement. He will only ever run into space when he's on the receiving end of a through ball.
 
R

Ripsta

New member
Ronaldo ties Messi for Ballon d'Or's.

An absolute disgrace IMO. Doesn't matter what we all think, the history books are going to show them as equal, and as far as i'm concerned Messi only has himself to blame for most of it.
 
O

Ousmane Dembélé

Banned
Ripsta said:
Ronaldo ties Messi for Ballon d'Or's.

An absolute disgrace IMO. Doesn't matter what we all think, the history books are going to show them as equal, and as far as i'm concerned Messi only has himself to blame for most of it.
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Is it his fault that the board is grossly incompetent?

Or are you suggesting he should have left Barca when he had the chance?
 
R

Ripsta

New member
Ousmane Dembélé said:
Is it his fault that the board is grossly incompetent?

Or are you suggesting he should have left Barca when he had the chance?
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Nope, i'm suggesting he should have actually done more in Europe. Far too often he looks like he can't be arsed.

Massive difference between Messi that took Madrid apart in April to the powder puff displays he put in against PSG and Juve. But for Neymar that would have been even worse.
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Messi has had world class players around him and the best front line of all time for parts.

The idea of Messi team mates being shit is far too overplayed to give excuses for Ronaldo winning these awards.
 
O

Ousmane Dembélé

Banned
Ripsta said:
Nope, i'm suggesting he should have actually done more in Europe. Far too often he looks like he can't be arsed.

Massive difference between Messi that took Madrid apart in April to the powder puff displays he put in against PSG and Juve. But for Neymar that would have been even worse.
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Fair enough, he's looked mentally absent in the CL the last couple years, he isn't even trying a lot of the time.

But even if Messi did play great we still wouldn't have won the CL; the team isn't good enough.
 
R

Ripsta

New member
Ousmane Dembélé said:
Fair enough, he's looked mentally absent in the CL the last couple years, he isn't even trying a lot of the time.

But even if Messi did play great we still wouldn't have won the CL; the team isn't good enough.
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I don't doubt that, quite a few of them look a shadow of their former selves, most who were involved in the treble winning team, but a Messi in 'beast mode' gives any team a fighting chance, problem is he's just not got it in him these days to do it on a regular basis.

Had the Messi that turned up against Real Madrid turned up against Juve, they'd have lost. He made a mockery of them that night, against Juve he seemed to just drop deep and lacked the same hunger to go on and take the game to the Juventus defence. Real Madrid were brave enough to prove they aren't impenetrable, shame we weren't.
 
raskolnikov

raskolnikov

Well-known member
The revisionism that they are equal in level alreasy begun at this board. About as disgracefull as them being tied. In reality it should be 6-3 or 5-2, something like that reflects reality much better.
 
Thiago10

Thiago10

New member
Ripsta said:
Nope, i'm suggesting he should have actually done more in Europe. Far too often he looks like he can't be arsed.

Massive difference between Messi that took Madrid apart in April to the powder puff displays he put in against PSG and Juve. But for Neymar that would have been even worse.
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Can't disagree with you tbh. It's an absolute scandal that Ronaldo got the Ballon D'Or over him after being absent for 3/4 of the year, but Messi can easily be blamed as well. He could've scored so much more goals if he just gave 100% instead of the usual 70%.

EDIT: I want to clarify that I think Messi is the best player in the world by far.
 
KingLeo10

KingLeo10

Senior Member
raskolnikov said:
The revisionism that they are equal in level alreasy begun at this board. About as disgracefull as them being tied. In reality it should be 6-3 or 5-2, something like that reflects reality much better.
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yup, those accusing messi of not trying his hardest in the CL in the last 4-5 years are also overlooking the fact that we also had neymar those same years. so, if the two of them combined can only win 1 CL in those years, maybe it speaks to the fact that balance and overall squad quality are more important than just top class forwards.

when we had the much stronger team compared to man.united and real, messi was sweeping each and every individual award. it's simply how it is. the best or even the most recognized player from the team who wins the CL is the winner.

and another point, messi's legacy is already secure. 8 ligas, 4 CL, and 5 ballons if you care about that can't be erased, no matter what CR7 or real do. i'm glad he sees things from this perspective instead of the rabid fanboys who want him to jet off to city just to gloryhunt.
 
Giginho75

Giginho75

New member
keep calm...messi two years younger than cr7...
i hope and think leo will succeed to be the best scorer all time of CL...

anyway this is the most important season for him...
after two years where cr7 won more trophies and awards than him (with club and national team), now messi has to try to win with barca and argentina...

but if we have to give an opinion about the two players, no chance for cr7 (despite he is a very great world class player and fantastic scorer)..
leo is an alien born to play football with not human abilities...
in the history with pele' and maradona...
i cannot image the football after leo!
 
M

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
raskolnikov said:
The revisionism that they are equal in level alreasy begun at this board. About as disgracefull as them being tied. In reality it should be 6-3 or 5-2, something like that reflects reality much better.
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This, the ballon is not an award that rewards the best player of the world it rewards the biggest star of the team that won the most prestigious trophy (the CL in most years) unless you do something really spectacular like score 91 goals in a calender year.
 
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Mitchell1978

Senior Member
Thiago10 said:
Can't disagree with you tbh. It's an absolute scandal that Ronaldo got the Ballon D'Or over him after being absent for 3/4 of the year, but Messi can easily be blamed as well. He could've scored so much more goals if he just gave 100% instead of the usual 70%.
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I really doubt he doesn't give a 100 %, its a myth because he doesn't run a lot and his style of play but its just that style of play with those bursts of energy followed by rest that allows him to be so effective.
 
G

gasgas

Senior Member
JamDav1982 said:
Messi has had world class players around him and the best front line of all time for parts.

The idea of Messi team mates being shit is far too overplayed to give excuses for Ronaldo winning these awards.
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Yeah.

I think Ronaldo would still score plenty of goals from those Rakitic crosses.
 
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