10 - Lionel Messi - v5

serghei

serghei

Senior Member
MessiCam said:
Here is my initial statement.



Through all his career. How often was Messi making a run into the box with the first wave? He often comes in on the second wave and that’s why he receives so many cut backs.

Watch that video I posted of Messi as False 9 against Madrid. Watch how he collects balls from teammates on either flank and jogs and walks away from markers and then watch the afterburners when he is running at defenders.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LolZyIPCrmw&feature=player_embedded

And here he is as a False 9 earlier this season. Where is the difference?
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He scored a lot of goals like that. 2009 CL final attacks empty space in the box, and Xavi puts a great cross. Madrid first goal in 2-0 win in the CL, attacks first post and scores after a cross by Afellay. A lot of examples with Messi not being in the build-up and still atacking space in the box, scoring important goals. The difference is Messi didn't stand in space, he attacked it from a deeper position.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
serghei said:
He scored a lot of goals like that. 2009 CL final attacks empty space in the box, and Xavi puts a great cross. Madrid first goal in 2-0 win in the CL, attacks first post and scores after a cross by Afellay. A lot of examples with Messi not being in the build-up and still atacking space in the box, scoring important goals. The difference is Messi didn't stand in space, he attacked it from a deeper position.
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Ok. Watch the whole game... Messi's False 9 masterclass vs Madrid. Don't cheat now... Watch the whole thing and pay attention to his walking and collecting the ball from teammates.

http://footballia.net/matches/real-madrid-fc-barcelona-liga-1-division-2008-2009

And Messi still attacks space from deep positions. It's just that he doesn't move around like people want him to despite it always being how he played. Don't cheat now. Watch that full match and notice how he meanders about waiting for the game to come to him.

It's classic Messi and it's why I wonder why people make a sing song now.
 
DonAndres

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
The walking isn't new but it definitely got notably worse pretty soon after Pep left. It was at its apex in 13/14 tho and hasn't been anywhere near that bad for years now.

And for the most part it's fine. Physical preservation and his unparalleled football IQ give him a great shot at being a top 3 player or better until he's like 34-35 IMO.

We just need him to give it all in the CL, DonAK is right on that front.
 
Lelouch vi Britannia

Lelouch vi Britannia

Banned
The way I see it, Messi needs players around him (forwards in particular) to make those off the ball runs. No coincidence he was on fire in the beginning of the season when Paulinho was making them and Messi was serving him tap ins on a platter, Neymar/Suarez in 2015, Pedro/Villa in 2011, etc.

Also needs a good CM behind him so that he doesn't have to drop so deep and can stay near the final third.
 
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DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Messi himself need to start trusting some of the new players too. There have been numerous occasions of Semedo or someone else making a run on the right side, but Messi always trying to force it to the left with Alba and Suarez. It becomes too predictable.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
DonAndres said:
The walking isn't new but it definitely got notably worse pretty soon after Pep left. It was at its apex in 13/14 tho and hasn't been anywhere near that bad for years now.

And for the most part it's fine. Physical preservation and his unparalleled football IQ give him a great shot at being a top 3 player or better until he's like 34-35 IMO.

We just need him to give it all in the CL, DonAK is right on that front.
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I’m just saying that’s how Messi plays and always has played. Make an argument that he should reinvent his game then but don’t say he hasn’t always played in that manner.

Messi has never moved around like Isco.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
Lelouch vi Britannia said:
The way I see it, Messi needs players around him (forwards in particular) to make those off the ball runs. No coincidence he was on fire in the beginning of the season when Paulinho was making them and Messi was serving him tap ins on a platter, Neymar/Suarez in 2015, Pedro/Villa in 2011, etc.
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But you need a system conducive to it and the 4-2-3-1 is just not it. Firstly you’re a midfielder short so no more Paulinho to make a run off his acceleration with the ball. Suárez touch is horrible and is always offside too... So the ball inevitably goes into wide areas particularly the left where Iniesta and Alba are.
 
M

MessiCam

Guest
DonAK said:
Messi himself need to start trusting some of the new players too. There have been numerous occasions of Semedo or someone else making a run on the right side, but Messi always trying to force it to the left with Alba and Suarez. It becomes too predictable.
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Agree with you here.
 
DonAndres

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
MessiCam said:
I’m just saying that’s how Messi plays and always has played. Make an argument that he should reinvent his game then but don’t say he hasn’t always played in that manner.

Messi has never moved around like Isco.
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I agree. And other than early 2014 (where Messi was, by all known accounts, the least healthy/fit he's ever been in his career) the walking has been circumstantial or tactical.

He walks after scoring a few or when we have a big lead, he walks in certain phases of the game that don't require his attention, he walks when the ball isn't anywhere near him and he doesn't see an upcoming opportunity. It's only problematic when we don't have players who can pass him the ball between lines, cause then the only way he can get involved is by actively running back to the perimeter of the attack rather than the focal point.

If you have players that can break the lines and get the ball to Messi, his activity level isn't ever a problem.
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
DonAndres said:
The walking isn't new but it definitely got notably worse pretty soon after Pep left. It was at its apex in 13/14 tho and hasn't been anywhere near that bad for years now.

And for the most part it's fine. Physical preservation and his unparalleled football IQ give him a great shot at being a top 3 player or better until he's like 34-35 IMO.

We just need him to give it all in the CL, DonAK is right on that front.
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That is the crux of it - his lack of movement becomes a bigger weakness when he is the one being used as a player maker and makes it too predictable how Barca will attack and the pace of that attack.

Messi holding position and offering options off the ball is a bigger strength for Barca even if he gets the ball less.

I dont agree his movement has always been like this though. He has always walked but almost used it until moment defence switches off then he would make a move to open game up often.

That is completely different from moving slowly towards the ball as often as does now.
 
BruceWayne11

BruceWayne11

New member
The 442 with Suarez' and Messi's position has made his goals dry up the last games (meeting ultra-defensive teams also don't help). In the first half of the season, it seemed it would be an insane goal-scoring year for him... Barca need to adress this. Nowadays, he's lucky to get half a real chance during a game.
 
Pedro

Pedro

La Masia
I hope Barca and Madrid meet in the knockout stages or final of the CL, Leo will punish them and CR7 wont win the B'dor, otherwise CR7 is nailed on to overtake Leo and win his 6th B'Dor :angry:
 
bismp

bismp

Well-known member
Pedro said:
I hope Barca and Madrid meet in the knockout stages or final of the CL, Leo will punish them and CR7 wont win the B'dor, otherwise CR7 is nailed on to overtake Leo and win his 6th B'Dor :angry:
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CR won't win the BDor unless he wins the CL or the WC.The same can be applied for Messi.If neither of them wins the CL/WC,i can see the BDor going to another player for the first time since 2007.

That said,i'd LOVE it if we drew Real in the CL(we have to go through Chelsea first though....sigh).It's been too long since we faced each other in a 2-legged knock-out match.

I'll never forget the hype surrounding the 4 El Classicos in less than a month,that happened 7 years ago...
 
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Caps

Caps

Member
bismp said:
CR won't win the BDor unless he wins the CL or the WC.The same can be applied for Messi.If neither of them wins the CL/WC,i can see the BDor going to another player for the first time since 2007.

That said,i'd LOVE it if we drew Real in the CL(we have to go through Chelsea first though....sigh).It's been too long since we faced each other in a 2-legged knock-out match.

I'll never forget the hype surrounding the 4 El Classicos in less than a month,that happened 7 years ago...
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While I agree, who realistically can win it over them?
 
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