10 - Lionel Messi - v5

Windhook

Windhook

Well-known member
To the admins, cut the crap and ban Gordo101 already.

If Messi was a steroid abuser the anti-doping agencies would have caught him every game they tested the guy. They have been all over him in the last 10 years anyway. Reminds me of the way they caught Frank De Boer and Pep Guardiola (Edgar Davids also while at Juventus) who tested positive for nandrolone in 2001. End of story.
 
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Gordo101

New member
Windhook said:
To the admins, cut the crap and ban Gordo101 already.

If Messi was a steroid abuser the anti-doping agencies would have caught him every game they tested the guy. They have been all over him in the last 10 years anyway. Reminds me of the way they caught Frank De Boer and Pep Guardiola (Edgar Davids also while at Juventus) who tested positive for nandrolone in 2001. End of story.
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I literally asked for an opinion, it's not trolling it is a genuine subject and has been covered by independent media (non madrid), and I literally just asked some questions, and even repeatedly stated I don't think he is a bad person/ intentional cheat, but what you thought the effect of HGH had on him. I got flamed a few times and still didn't bite/flame back. Asking for bans because you don't like someones opinion is crazy, you have to be able to have a reasonable discussion without resorting to insults and calls for bans. Have you been on red and white kop? Go take a look, they don't even allow discussions about man united on there!
 
Windhook

Windhook

Well-known member
Gordo101 said:
I literally asked for an opinion, it's not trolling it is a genuine subject and has been covered by independent media (non madrid), and I literally just asked some questions, and even repeatedly stated I don't think he is a bad person/ intentional cheat, but what you thought the effect of HGH had on him. I got flamed a few times and still didn't bite/flame back. Asking for bans because you don't like someones opinion is crazy, you have to be able to have a reasonable discussion without resorting to insults and calls for bans. Have you been on red and white kop? Go take a look, they don't even allow discussions about man united on there!
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WTF are you talking about? Someone's opinion? Can't you just keep it to yourself? You are literally talking bullshit all day long. You wrote probably 30 comments today just in this thread (overall of 71 as of now). He got help from FC Barcelona at young age, Carles Rexach admitted that way back in 2006. We all know about his fragile nature, all the injuries. Matter of fact the main reason Messi is no longer closing down opponents, not taking part in defensive plays is the risk of muscle injuries. Overall Messi's footballing abilities have nothing to do with the hormone treatment at young age. Perhaps you are suggesting Lionel Messi and FC Barcelona are cheaters or not? Make it clear once and for all, not post 100 000 comments.
 
Givenchy

Givenchy

Senior Member
Gordo101 said:
I literally asked for an opinion, it's not trolling it is a genuine subject and has been covered by independent media (non madrid), and I literally just asked some questions, and even repeatedly stated I don't think he is a bad person/ intentional cheat, but what you thought the effect of HGH had on him. I got flamed a few times and still didn't bite/flame back. Asking for bans because you don't like someones opinion is crazy, you have to be able to have a reasonable discussion without resorting to insults and calls for bans. Have you been on red and white kop? Go take a look, they don't even allow discussions about man united on there!
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imho the HGH got him to the (still short) acceptable height, regardless if his destiny was football. would he be a footballer now without it? thats debatable as im not 100% sure on the health issues of someone who needs HGH but his ability is just pure art and talent, just like the other goat Maradona. I read an article awhile ago talking about Messi and possible Autism (high functioning ofc) which could explain some of his otherwordly control.

i think people will always find a way to bring him down, same for Ronaldo.
 
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Ripsta

New member
Ousmane Dembélé said:
Others were also on form at that time, but I feel like he used to get dispossessed a lot less back then and looks to have lost a half step of pace.

Who knows, may be he just loses the ball more now because he's expected to create everything these days?
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That old chestnut, everyone's been saying he's lost a yard of pace since the injury @ PSG back in 2012.

Five years on he looks better than ever, pace has never been one of his key strengths, it's his acceleration off the mark, which he quite clearly still has.

If this Messi was in the Barcelona team under Pep, Real wouldn't be the first side to win back to back CL's.
 
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Ousmane Dembélé

Banned
Ripsta said:
That old chestnut, everyone's been saying he's lost a yard of pace since the injury @ PSG back in 2012.

Five years on he looks better than ever, pace has never been one of his key strengths, it's his acceleration off the mark, which he quite clearly still has.

If this Messi was in the Barcelona team under Pep, Real wouldn't be the first side to win back to back CL's.
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His pace has never been one of his greatest strengths, but there is no way anyone can argue anyone that he's fast as he was in 2015. He's adapted his play style quite beautifully as he has aged though. Just compare his dribbling now to how it used to be in 2010 or 2011. You could argue it's still as efficient, but these days he doesn't waste energy dribbling players for fun. Nowadays he does these quick, short dribbles where he beats one or two men and holds on to the ball just long enough to make a quick pass or find space for a shot. Long gone are the days where he'd just get the ball in the final third or sometimes even at the midfield and dribble five guys.

I don't think you can definitively say that if you replaced the versions of Messi from the 2010 or 2012 teams with the 2017 Messi that it would be enough to put them over the top and win the CL. It's really impossible to say, two very different players and I think there wouldn't be much of an upgrade at all, if any.
 
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Ripsta

New member
Ousmane Dembélé said:
His pace has never been one of his greatest strengths, but there is no way anyone can argue anyone that he's fast as he was in 2015. He's adapted his play style quite beautifully as he has aged though. Just compare his dribbling now to how it used to be in 2010 or 2011. You could argue it's still as efficient, but these days he doesn't waste energy dribbling players for fun. Nowadays he does these quick, short dribbles where he beats one or two men and holds on to the ball just long enough to make a quick pass or find space for a shot. Long gone are the days where he'd just get the ball in the final third or sometimes even at the midfield and dribble five guys.

I don't think you can definitively say that if you replaced the versions of Messi from the 2010 or 2012 teams with the 2017 Messi that it would be enough to put them over the top and win the CL. It's really impossible to say, two very different players and I think there wouldn't be much of an upgrade at all, if any.
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He looked plenty fast when he ripped through the Eibar defence just a few months ago from the half way line. Again, it's the same drivel aimed at him ever since 2012 (even after that wonderful solo effort Vs Getafe upon his return). In 2015 people were saying the exact same thing, until he took matters into his own hands after Christmas and that bad result against Sociadad. Those final five months he was on fire. He looked zero different from back then, it's the team that have changed.

Is he as quick as he was at 19? Probably not, but there's fuck all in it. The most important facet of his game has always been his quickness off the mark, and he still has that. His mindset has changed over the years though, he covers even less ground and his passing has improved since his early 20s, why run when you can pass? He's a much better all round player, and he was afforded the luxury of making more runs in his earlier years as he was surrounded by quality, hasn't got that these days.
 
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Ousmane Dembélé

Banned
Ripsta said:
He looked plenty fast when he ripped through the Eibar defence just a few months ago from the half way line. Again, it's the same drivel aimed at him ever since 2012 (even after that wonderful solo effort Vs Getafe upon his return). In 2015 people were saying the exact same thing, until he took matters into his own hands after Christmas and that bad result against Sociadad. Those final five months he was on fire. He looked zero different from back then, it's the team that have changed.

Is he as quick as he was at 19? Probably not, but there's fuck all in it. The most important facet of his game has always been his quickness off the mark, and he still has that. His mindset has changed over the years though, he covers even less ground and his passing has improved since his early 20s, why run when you can pass? He's a much better all round player, and he was afforded the luxury of making more runs in his earlier years as he was surrounded by quality, hasn't got that these days.
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Fair enough, the circumstances certainly are different, but he doesn't make those same runs nearly as frequently anymore. The new Messi is aimed at getting the maximum output and end product from the least amount of effort and that's probably good for his longevity.
 
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Ripsta

New member
Ousmane Dembélé said:
Fair enough, the circumstances certainly are different, but he doesn't make those same runs nearly as frequently anymore. The new Messi is aimed at getting the maximum output and end product from the least amount of effort and that's probably good for his longevity.
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Indeed, and admittedly sometimes it can be a detriment to the team when he's passing to players in good positions who we know will fuck up the chances, lately it's been Suarez. His decline is the biggest cause for concern.
 
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